Honey suckel
12-12-2004, 02:41 PM
#1
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,149
Honey suckel
I hunted in illinious this pasted fall, and i seen some of the food the deer were feeding on ,that i would like to transplant here in western New York. Were can i get honey suckle root & milo seed. I think it would help aroud here. Thanks Rich
12-12-2004, 04:51 PM
#2
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Delhi, NY (by way of Chenango Forks)
Posts: 1,706
RE: Honey suckel
although honeysuckle makes for a good wildlife food source, I would not recommend planting it. It is an invasive species (may even be non-native?). honeysuckle can take over an area and smother all existing species. it can also spread to other areas where it may not be wanted and cause problems. I suggest contacting your local soil & water conservation district. they should be able to help you with some alternate choices (there are many) and they should have a trees sale where you could purchase trees/shrubs. if you have problems finding their number or don't get much good advice, send me a PM and I will get you some info.
12-13-2004, 06:58 PM
#3
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: DeFuniak Spr.Florida
Posts: 4,329
RE: Honey suckel
I have to disagree,sorry Dough.Transplanting honey suckle is very easy.I plant it here in Florida and it has trouble growing the deer eat it so fast,in NY.the cold should keep it in check.I plant mine with a basket over it,it's like a small feeder.As a piece of it sticks out,the deer eat it.It lets the roots get down deep.
12-14-2004, 06:12 AM
#4
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Delhi, NY (by way of Chenango Forks)
Posts: 1,706
RE: Honey suckel
don't be sorry, you are just wrong 
If you like honesuckle, maybe you should go out and plant some Kudzu, Melaleuca trees, or privet.
Bush honeysuckles can rapidly invade a site by forming a dense shrub layer that suppresses native woody and herbaceous plants. Leaves emerge on honeysuckles during early spring, and foliage remains until November. Infestations of the plants lead to a decrease in available light and a reduction in soil moisture and nutrients. Honeysuckles may also release toxic chemicals into the soil that inhibit the growth of adjacent native plants. -- Primary List of Invasive Plants in NYS
Although fragrant, all the shrub honeysuckles are extremely invasive. The orange & red berries are readily eaten by birds that then spread the seeds. The shrubs leaf out earlier than native shrubs, allowing them to outcompete native shrubs, interfere with tree regeneration and shade out spring wildflowers. Honeysuckles can form vast thickets that are difficult to control. --from Cornell Extension website
These vigorous shrubs shade out native vegetation, particularly in the woodland understory. They are able to out-compete native wildflowers for light and other resources. Bush honeysuckles green up earlier in the spring than most other plants, giving them an advantage over other species. Each produces abundant amounts of seed which are spread by birds and other animals. -- Ohio Invasive Plants
Their vigorous growth inhibits development of native shrub and ground layer species; eventually they may entirely replace native species by shading and depleting soil moisture and nutrients. The early leafing of these species is particularly injurious to spring ephemerals, which have evolved to bloom before trees and shrubs have leafed out.
Exotic bush honeysuckles out-compete and displace native plants and alter natural habitats by decreasing light availability and depleting soil moisture and nutrients for native species. Exotic bush honeysuckles compete with native plants for pollinators, resulting in reduced seed set for native species. Unlike native shrubs, the fruits of exotic bush honeysuckles are carbohydrate-rich and do not provide migrating birds with the high-fat content needed for long flights. -- National Parks Service & Us Fish & Wildlife
There are several species of honeysuckle that cause problems in Wisconsin natural areas, but there is no reason to classify them since they are all nonnative and they are all bad. The native honeysuckles in our area can easily be distinguished from the bad ones because the natives are all woody vines rather than bushes.Honeysuckle is one of the plants that will invade a habitat if it is protected from fire. Once honeysuckles have conquered a habitat, there is no possibility of fire because there is no fuel. The ground under a honeysuckle patch is often completely bare. In order to reintroduce fire, it is essential first to eliminate the honeysuckles and then reseed with native plants, preferably seed mixtures containing grasses such as Indian grass or bluestem that will carry a fire. -- Invasive plant association of Wisc,
also listed in the following:
Nonnative Invasive Plants of Southern Forests - USDA Forest Service
Southeast Exotic Pest Plant Council Invasive Plant Manual
Weeds Gone Wild: Alien Plant Invaders of Natural Areas - Plant Conservation Alliance
Invasive Plant Atlas of New England
And the list goes on and on.
Just because something is easy to plant and can produce some wildlife benefit doesn't neccessarily mean it is the best thing to plant.
If you like honesuckle, maybe you should go out and plant some Kudzu, Melaleuca trees, or privet.Bush honeysuckles can rapidly invade a site by forming a dense shrub layer that suppresses native woody and herbaceous plants. Leaves emerge on honeysuckles during early spring, and foliage remains until November. Infestations of the plants lead to a decrease in available light and a reduction in soil moisture and nutrients. Honeysuckles may also release toxic chemicals into the soil that inhibit the growth of adjacent native plants. -- Primary List of Invasive Plants in NYS
Although fragrant, all the shrub honeysuckles are extremely invasive. The orange & red berries are readily eaten by birds that then spread the seeds. The shrubs leaf out earlier than native shrubs, allowing them to outcompete native shrubs, interfere with tree regeneration and shade out spring wildflowers. Honeysuckles can form vast thickets that are difficult to control. --from Cornell Extension website
These vigorous shrubs shade out native vegetation, particularly in the woodland understory. They are able to out-compete native wildflowers for light and other resources. Bush honeysuckles green up earlier in the spring than most other plants, giving them an advantage over other species. Each produces abundant amounts of seed which are spread by birds and other animals. -- Ohio Invasive Plants
Their vigorous growth inhibits development of native shrub and ground layer species; eventually they may entirely replace native species by shading and depleting soil moisture and nutrients. The early leafing of these species is particularly injurious to spring ephemerals, which have evolved to bloom before trees and shrubs have leafed out.
Exotic bush honeysuckles out-compete and displace native plants and alter natural habitats by decreasing light availability and depleting soil moisture and nutrients for native species. Exotic bush honeysuckles compete with native plants for pollinators, resulting in reduced seed set for native species. Unlike native shrubs, the fruits of exotic bush honeysuckles are carbohydrate-rich and do not provide migrating birds with the high-fat content needed for long flights. -- National Parks Service & Us Fish & Wildlife
There are several species of honeysuckle that cause problems in Wisconsin natural areas, but there is no reason to classify them since they are all nonnative and they are all bad. The native honeysuckles in our area can easily be distinguished from the bad ones because the natives are all woody vines rather than bushes.Honeysuckle is one of the plants that will invade a habitat if it is protected from fire. Once honeysuckles have conquered a habitat, there is no possibility of fire because there is no fuel. The ground under a honeysuckle patch is often completely bare. In order to reintroduce fire, it is essential first to eliminate the honeysuckles and then reseed with native plants, preferably seed mixtures containing grasses such as Indian grass or bluestem that will carry a fire. -- Invasive plant association of Wisc,
also listed in the following:
Nonnative Invasive Plants of Southern Forests - USDA Forest Service
Southeast Exotic Pest Plant Council Invasive Plant Manual
Weeds Gone Wild: Alien Plant Invaders of Natural Areas - Plant Conservation Alliance
Invasive Plant Atlas of New England
And the list goes on and on.
Just because something is easy to plant and can produce some wildlife benefit doesn't neccessarily mean it is the best thing to plant.
12-14-2004, 07:31 AM
#5
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ponce de Leon Florida USA
Posts: 10,079
RE: Honey suckel
Doughboy I don't think the bush type honeysuckle is what he is talking about. The Japanese Honeysuckle (vine type) is not only a good food source for all bees, some birds and whitetails. It also provides shelter for birds, rabbits and other animals. I know it is classified as invasive, I don't think it is in the same class as kudzu and some others.
A good way to make a honeysuckle bed is to till up an area about 50 feet or more feet long by 6 feet wide and plant the bed. Then take some wire and make either a angled cover or a rounded cover over the bed. As the honeysuckle grows out through the wire the deer and other animals can eat it, and it will make a good shelter area. Just add a little triple 13 each year for a cheap, good deer food source. Honeysuckle can be controlled with Roundup on the edges if it starts running.
A good way to make a honeysuckle bed is to till up an area about 50 feet or more feet long by 6 feet wide and plant the bed. Then take some wire and make either a angled cover or a rounded cover over the bed. As the honeysuckle grows out through the wire the deer and other animals can eat it, and it will make a good shelter area. Just add a little triple 13 each year for a cheap, good deer food source. Honeysuckle can be controlled with Roundup on the edges if it starts running.
12-14-2004, 01:07 PM
#6
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Delhi, NY (by way of Chenango Forks)
Posts: 1,706
RE: Honey suckel
I didn't list the Jap honeysuckle because I didn't think that was what he was talking about, but that is a non-native invasive species as well with all the same problems. Personally I would stay away. I think there are many better alternatives.
12-14-2004, 08:24 PM
#7
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,149
RE: Honey suckel
Guys the stuff i'm talking about, is that stuff that will tangle you up. Timbercruise is probably right. Today was our last day of shotgun season , out four about 7hrs. zip. Only thing good skiers will have a good time this weekend about 12in snow and more coming. Western New York ( ellicotville) aspen ofthe east. No deer .Rich
12-14-2004, 09:34 PM
#8
Fork Horn
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 381
RE: Honey suckel
On our hunting property the high deer population keeps the honeysuckle trimmed down real close. The only leaves that you can find this time of year are the ones at the very top of briar bushes.
On the other hand in areas closer to the city the stuff grows like wild where deer cannot or do not feel comfortable getting to it.
On the other hand in areas closer to the city the stuff grows like wild where deer cannot or do not feel comfortable getting to it.
12-15-2004, 07:50 PM
#9
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Delhi, NY (by way of Chenango Forks)
Posts: 1,706
RE: Honey suckel
Japanese noney suckle is just as bad
Introduced into the United States as an ornamental vine more than 100 years ago, smothers native plants in woodlands throughout the eastern United States
Dense, strangling growths of Japanese honeysuckle can impact desirable vegetation by decreasing light availability within the habitat, depleting soil moisture and nutrients, or by toppling upright stems through the sheer weight of accumulated vines. Negative effects of Japanese honeysuckle invasion include development of malformed trunks in trees, suppression of plant growth, inhibition of regeneration in woody and herbaceous plants, and alteration of habitats used by native wildlife.
This aggressive vine seriously alters or destroys the understory and herbaceous layers of the communities it invades, including prairies, barrens, glades, flatwoods, savannas, floodplain and upland forests. Japanese honeysuckle also may alter understory bird populations in forest communities.
In North America, Japanese honeysuckle has few natural enemies which allows it to spread widely and out-compete native plant species. Its evergreen to semi-evergreen nature gives it an added advantage over native species in many areas. Shrubs and young trees can be killed by girdling when vines twist tightly around stems and trunks, cutting off the flow of water through the plant. Dense growths of honeysuckle covering vegetation can gradually kill plants by blocking sunlight from reaching their leaves. Vigorous root competition also helps Japanese honeysuckle spread and displace neighboring native vegetation.
and on and on and on
Introduced into the United States as an ornamental vine more than 100 years ago, smothers native plants in woodlands throughout the eastern United States
Dense, strangling growths of Japanese honeysuckle can impact desirable vegetation by decreasing light availability within the habitat, depleting soil moisture and nutrients, or by toppling upright stems through the sheer weight of accumulated vines. Negative effects of Japanese honeysuckle invasion include development of malformed trunks in trees, suppression of plant growth, inhibition of regeneration in woody and herbaceous plants, and alteration of habitats used by native wildlife.
This aggressive vine seriously alters or destroys the understory and herbaceous layers of the communities it invades, including prairies, barrens, glades, flatwoods, savannas, floodplain and upland forests. Japanese honeysuckle also may alter understory bird populations in forest communities.
In North America, Japanese honeysuckle has few natural enemies which allows it to spread widely and out-compete native plant species. Its evergreen to semi-evergreen nature gives it an added advantage over native species in many areas. Shrubs and young trees can be killed by girdling when vines twist tightly around stems and trunks, cutting off the flow of water through the plant. Dense growths of honeysuckle covering vegetation can gradually kill plants by blocking sunlight from reaching their leaves. Vigorous root competition also helps Japanese honeysuckle spread and displace neighboring native vegetation.
and on and on and on
12-15-2004, 09:16 PM
#10
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: DeFuniak Spr.Florida
Posts: 4,329
RE: Honey suckel
Ok,I get it you don't like honey suckle.All I'm saying is here it's not a problem I planted it in my backyard for the humming birds that pass through.So far (10 years)it hasn't taken
over my back yard,attacked the dogs or grandchildren or hurt a thing.Where I hunt the deer keep it mowed down and there are native vines that are alot stronger.Maybe things grow different up north.
over my back yard,attacked the dogs or grandchildren or hurt a thing.Where I hunt the deer keep it mowed down and there are native vines that are alot stronger.Maybe things grow different up north.