VT,

Maybe this will help you understand a little better...

My population numbers are taken from roughly 700-800 photos each year, with 3 seperate photo stations that vary, over a 8 to 10 month period(varied by winter migration-when the deer leave, so do the cameras). Individual does and their fawns are very easy to distinguish after studying the photos. In fact, you find the same does, with the same fawns, on the same food plots, at just about the same time of day. We have around 20-25 deer per square mile in my area, of which the area can support around 35-40(summer-range).

Doe harvest, right now, is only a minor part of my overall QDM plan. In fact, it still isn' t even a part, YET, until my numbers begin to get close to my carrying capacity.

In my photos I can easily estimate the number of does and fawns using my 130 acres on a daily basis. At the same time my does and fawns are not using my property exclusively on a daily basis, and most are likely drawn from various bedding areas around the property within a 1/8 mile from the property line, giving me about a 1/2 section to work with for numbers.

I had a good conversations with John Ozoga a while back to help shed some light on the subject. Here are some of the things we talked about.

*My population numbers were less than 5 deer in 1999, and up to around 20 last year(including bucks,does,fawns), so numbers have not been a concern(just the lack of) up until now.

*Around here, lactation rates can be very misleading, depending upon the previous winter. For example, in 2001, I had 1 fawn for 6 mature does after an extremely harsh 2000-2001 winter. During the harsh winters, all or most of the fawns can be aborted.

*We lose 50% of our fawns, on an average winter, up to 90% during severe winters, including many yearlings, as in 2000-2001.

*I' ve had 6 mature does the past 2 years, but this year my doe numbers will rise with the addition of a few yearling does that made it through the lighter winter.

*Last year I photographed 6 bucks of 2.5 or older, and 1 spike yearling buck, for 7 bucks. Granted the bucks are tougher to photograph due to the does taking over the food plots for the majority of the growing season.

*Mature does are likely to NEVER be a part of my management plan, and if they are, it will be very limited.

*Number of fawns can indeed be a strong indication of desired harvest. Last year, I had 8 fawns for 6 does. Typically this would be an indication of needed harvest-of 2 or 3 fawns, but my number of does had not reached my carrying capacity yet, so no need. This year, if my doe population is around 10, with another strong number of fawns, it will be finally time to harvest some does, but doe fawns would be most appropriate, as the population numbers will be only on the verge of carrying capacity, not exceeding yet. For example, 10 is probably the magic number of does using the property. If I had the same 6 mature does back from last year, plus the addition of 4 yearlings, I' d be at capacity. If I harvest 2 mature does, and we had a sever winter, I could easily left with 4 does next year!, a drastic, unecessary reduction. On the other hand, I harvest a couple of doe fawns, and after a severe winter I may be left with my original " 6" .

*It became much clearer after talking to John. Shoot for a base doe pop around 10, and harvest depending upon number of fawns. Once I' m at my base, no or low fawns=no doe harvest....fawns of 1:1 or higher=shoot a couple of fawns. I already have an 8 point rule, which protects up to 90% of the yearling bucks(In fact, we don' t shoot any yearlings.)

*Last year, although my bucks are living in a large area, the buck:doe ratio was about 1:1, with 1:2 being acceptable in my area, so not a concern.

Managing this northern habitat is rough, and most likely different than 99% of the rest of the country, but I' m lucky to have someone like John around who understands the area.

northjeff, i have to ask, just because i haeen others write about it, what makes th up so different than other places, i have always wondered about that. where i live and hunt in n. vt, we endure deep snow, bitter cold) can drop to -40, as i am sure you do to, ) snow comes late oct, early nov., doesn' t leave untill may, thick woods, both hard and softwoods, less and less farming area each year. just curiuos about that. now, i have been in contact with dr. david gyunn, also on qdma' s board, and keith mccaffery, noted biologist and writer/speaker on whitetails, and have 2 different opinions about your fawn harvest, keith, like me, loathes qdm, but he says that a proper plan would include the taking of fawn does. dave, on the other hand, says to take only mature does, so i guess i wouldn' t know who t trust, but i am leaning towards keith. i don' t blame you for not wanting others on your propety, sounds like you have done a very nice job, working very hard to do what you have done. however, the one thing that concerns me is that those who conduct a qdm plan seem to have a " i' better than you " attitude, perhaps not you personally, but in general. also, just wondering, how many does are you allowed to shoot in mi.? or, since you are under a management plan, can the rules change for such plans? don' t know if i frased it right, but i think you know what i meant.

Your area in VT might be one of the few areas in the country that are somewhat similar to ours. One of the things with the U.P., is we have areas that avg. 300 inches in the north, to 60" in the south, over just a 35 mile differance!

Guys that are unfamiliar with the harshness of northern latitudes, such as Dr. David Gyunn, are only familiar with the burgeoning deer herds common throughout the entire country, in which mature doe harvest is very important, if not necassary, for population reduction. But in areas of extreme snowfall and higher winter mortality rates, basing a management plant on fawn harvest, while maintaining a mature doe population, is about the only way to insure a stable, consistant population of deer. Removing mature does can drastically alter your areas population levels, and in fact, can actually leave an area completely devoid of deer until neighboring areas become overpopulated, something that may happen every 10 years or so.

In our area, we lose 50% of our fawns in an avg. winter, and virtually all in an extreme winter, along with most yearlings. For most deer managers in the country, this is unimaginable, and most have little to no experience with this phenomenon.

Jeff...U.P. of Michigan