bawanajim

For years I have listened to the Q.D.M. people say that QDM is about more than the elimination of does so that you can have trophy bucks now thanks to you and this forum I have proof.
I copied and pasted your post and your profile ,Both stating who you are and what you as the Mid West Q.D.M. guy have posted here about the belief that a good doe is a dead doe. I do appreciate your open admission that Q.D.M. is about three things.

# 1 The Doe deer is to be attacked and killed with the same vengeance as a pack rabid dogs.

# 2 Doe deer are responsible for everything from childhood obesity to avian flu and should be killed at all cost.

# 3 And when ever in public state that Q.D.M. is for the good of all things big and small And that when only bucks of magnificent proportions exist will we claim victory.

And Remember your Motto ," Friends don't let freinds letdoe live. "

mobuckhntress

Well, we bought an 80 acre "honey hole" of broken cover surrounded by crops and pasture some years ago,and encouragedour hunters to take more does while lettingyearling bucks walk. We definitely sawolderbucksafterjust a few years, and are now taking140-160 class bucks with some regularity, even on such a small tract... After all, if we shot a young buck,we KNEW it was definitelydead; if we let it walk, itat least had a chance to make it another season. In fact, the first mature buck (160-class) buck we took, we actually found his sheds as a 2-1/2 and 3-1/2 year old nearby. And this was despite a fair amount of indiscriminate hunting pressure around it.

We deeply appreciate it when the opportunity presents itself to take a deer -any deer - does as well as bucks; we just try to pass on the young bucks and wait for a mature animal.

farm hunter

Unfortunately - in many areas "a good doe is a dead doe" to some managers because too many people won't shoot them - simple as that.

They are stuck in the 1970's - "protect doe at all costs" - back when the USA was trying to INCREASE the deer herd in most areas.

Well - thats been done, and its time for responsible wildlife agencies to "manage the herd" - not grow it. QDM is one method. However, most modern management schemes advocate the same advice (shoot more does than bucks), QDM is just one of them (a minority program at that).

FH

npaden

Whether or not you should shoot does depends entirely on the deer population in your area. There is no better way to control a deer population than to shoot does. If the population is low and needs to increase, then does are off limits. If the population is high and needs to decrease, then you should shoot more does. It's pretty simple really.

I'm actually suprised that no one has mentioned taking spikes and management bucks to improve a deer herd. It seems that although this has been scientifically proven through the Kerr studies, many people still are hesitant to shoot spikes. I would probably shoot a spike over a doe if given the opportunity to improve a deer herd unless the area was seriously overpopulated.

alsaqr

"I'm actually suprised that no one has mentioned taking spikes and management bucks to improve a deer herd."

"My son took a ratty 11 year old four point there last Thanksgiving Day." We were after this deersince we first saw him about four years ago. He wasrunty (100 pounds field dressed).He was always seen with a malformed ratty rack.

bawanajim

I have no problem with the responsible shooting of doe. Its that blatant hatred of them that bothers me. How self centered we have become when we preach the wanton killing of doe just to increase our chances at a trophy buck.
Horn porn has caused us to chastise those who shoot a buck that is not of trophy proportions in our eye and yet he who kills the most does is some sort of cult hero.
All deer deserve our respect not just monster bucks.

kevin1

Well said Jim, and anybody who thinks they're practising QDM without control over their neighbor's habits is only kidding themselves anyway.

alsaqr

"I have no problem with the responsible shooting of doe. Its that blatant hatred of them that bothers me. How self centered we have become when we preach the wanton killing of doe just to increase our chances at a trophy buck.
Horn porn has caused us to chastise those who shoot a buck that is not of trophy proportions in our eye and yet he who kills the most does is some sort of cult hero."

Very well said. iwas after an old barren doe on our place all last season, never got her. We have owned the place since 01 and we have never seen her with a fawn.She is also the alert doe of all time, busted me about a dozen times to date.i am nearly 68 years old and have not killedmany good bucks. But i have been lucky enoughto get afew really good 190+ deer.One was taken in Charles County, MD in 65, another in WV in 68 or 69, and the last one in WV in 1971.This was well beforethe wholesale killing of does became popular.Wholesale doe killing came into vogue when states got strapped for money and saw a way to sell does.If i never get another good one it is OK with me. Besides those horns are hard to cook.

farm hunter

I've read in Deer & Deer Hunting that there really is no such thing as a "barren doe". Does can have fawns until their mid teens - and in most areas 99%+ never reach 10 years old. They just never really get old enough to become barren.

A doe consistantly without fawns could be a "Bad mother",or have a reproductive issue if she is otherwise healthy.

QDM promotes doe harvest toaccomplish a couple goals.

1. Maintain a healty Doe:Buck ratio not to exceed 2:1

2. maintain or reduce the overall population - which is too high in most areasto a suggested density.

3. Increased Doe harvest lowers the average age of female deer - and increases genetic diversity.

QDM does not promote or endorse Trophy hunting - or "horn porn" as it was eloquently stated. QDM is not Trophy management - but herd management.

I don't think you'll find many QDM programs with a "hatred of Doe", as their mantra.

Taking spikes or not taking spikes has almost no relavance in QDM. QDM programs promote a balanced age class among a deer herd - and places no importance on antler size, or lack thereof.


FH

alsaqr

"They just never really get old enough to become barren." I have watched that doe for six years. She has never ever been pregnant. You and the "experts" at the deer magazine can call her what ever you want. I will call her barren. Personally, i think that the experts are wacko on the 2 to 1 ratio. In the area that i hunt the most, a comprehensive deer survey was done in late August of last year. Only 16 percent of does had fawns. Only about half that number of does were running with fawns in late October. The coyotes and bobcats got them.