When checking my trail cam photos yesterday, I got a picture of a decentbodied buck with extremely inferior antlers for this area. He has a 2" spike on one side and the smallest fork I have ever seen on the other making him a 3 point that borderlines the 3" antler requirement to classify him a an antlered deer instead of an antlerless. I haven't seen a spike in this area for 5 years, let alone with a healthy body.

In the case that his bigger antler does reach the 3" mark, and he is classidied as a buck, I legally cannot eliminate him from the herd because of PA antler resitrictions.

I am considering shooting this deer. If his antler ends up being over 3", it will in fact be an illegal deer. But will my decision be unethical? I don't think so strictly because it is my property and I would be doing it for the purpose of deer management. Anyone of any opinions on what to do?

Unless you can positively determine that the deer is legal the most "ethical" choice would be to leave it alone . On your private property or not , the legal responsibility for managing your state's game is the province of your game commision , not you .

Well the game commission does about as good of a job managing deer as the law enforcement stops pot smoking in this stoner town.......not very good.

But anyway, after pulling the photos back out after posting, his forked side is well above 3" classifying him as an antlered deer. He needs removed from the herd, and after some more thinking, my sister happens to be a junior hunter. Antler restritions do not apply to juniors so that would be the best way to shoot him.

For comparison, here he is:
http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2592318860096882078vbLaEl


And what some 1.5 to 2.5 year old deer around here usually look like:
http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2789137690096882078GUJVMM

Take him if you want, but that is only a 1 1/2 year old deer.

Yep, and so is this guy who got hit with a tractor shortly after being born in the same field.

http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2029014780096882078ezhJmu

That's his first rack and he's really impressive.

The big one in the trail cam pic above is 2 1/2.



On a side note - For shooting an illegal point restriction buck in PA and turning yourself in, it is a $25 fine and you get to keep the deer. I'll give the money hungry game commission the extra $25 to keep that deer from breeding the does.

jhalfhill -

Its tough to call it a problem, truth is you've probably been lucky not to have seen many spikes, must be your general area has good nutrition.

No matter what you do - you will always have new bucks coming into your area. Some of these deer may have decent genes - but are behind nutritionally due to poor range at their birthplace. Some may have poor genes, but its tough to tell which you have when a roamer first settles in. The majority of deer sporting their 1st racks relocate - usually more than 5 miles and up to 50 miles from theirbirthplace. A much smaller percentage of2-1/2 yearold bucks also relocate.

So - I would not suggest taking the deer on the basis of genetics alone. Its much, much more likely that he is not nutrionally up to par - even if he has good body size.

If you were managing a 5000 acre ranchfor harvesting 4-1/2 year plusold bucks - I might be more inclined to agree to taking him out of the population on the basis of genetics.

That said,I am not against taking him either. The majority of deer we take in our program is 1.5 - 2.5 year old bucks - we have alot of hunters on a small property and we manage for a decent chance at a 2.5 year old buck. To each is own in managament principles - It all depends on what you want to accomplish.

FH

First of all, like Bob S said, this deer is only 1 1/2 years old. A deer that young could have about any kind of rack and still end up a really nice deer at 4 or 5 years old.

Secondly, geneticsare nearly impossible to manipulate in a free-ranging deer herd, so all you'd be doing is filling your tag with a small-racked, young deer. Let him get some age on him and fill your tag with an older deer if you've got a choice. Especially if he may get you fined. Spend that extra $25 on your girlfriend...or better yet, buy some new deer calls.

It's only a $25 fine if you can prove that it was a complete mistake....somehow I have a feeling you would have problems proving that to the PGC.

If you are h*ll bent on getting this buck out of the herd, take a kid hunting, let them take that guy, and watch their face....They will be extatic...they don't care about the size of a rack....pure, innocent, unconditionaljoy.

It's a shamesome people are so bent on managing big bucks that they arecontemplating steppingbelow ethical and moral values, along with breaking the law,just to accomplish their goal.[:'(][&:][:@]

Thats my two cents.

F*** you buddy. I spend alot of time and effort planting food plots and trying to maintain a healthy herd around here. If it's so unethical to try and produce nice sized healthy deer with good genes for future generations, then i don't want to be your kind of ethical anyway. For some people, it's satisfying to go out and fill their antlerless tags with 3 button bucks over the course of the season, and kill a 1.5 year old six point with great potential. Then they are the FIRST to wonder why in the hell they never see a buck the next deer season. If you're a meat hunter, then good for you. I've killed a few nice bucks over the span of my hunting career so hunting six points and seven points just doesn't seem "ethical" to me. If I'm not going to mount the deer and I can easily get meat by taking a doe, then to me killing that deer is a waste. That's my personal opinion. By letting that little scrappy buck reproduce, he may introduce more young bucks that will never get very big no matter how many time I pass on them.

Look, I live on farmland. The deer have PLENTY of nutrition so malnutrition is really not the reason here for his small rack. I have photos of dozens of different bucks on my trail cam and the smallest one is a 10" wide 6 point. The fact that he may be under par for nutrition is not even debatable, he HAS bad genetics. I will probably never shoot him because even if I want to, that will ruin a seasons hunt for the big one I am after. However, when my 16 year old sis is sitting in my ladder stand, I will make sure she knows that if this deer comes through, that she lets him have it. She'll be more than happy to.

First off, I have no disagreement with you on the fact that the buck probably should be culled if you wish to manage your land strictly for big bucks. The only issue I had with you, a fellow hunter, is that you are considering taking an illegal buck...and not seeing it as unethical (as stated in your own words). Thats my problem...

I truly hope you see that I was not making a personal attack on you (even though you proceeded to make one on me), only that I was stating my opinion on a matter of ethics, from my point of view.