RE: Issue of the law...
 

I never said, "hang the kid"! I said, "find out what the problem(s) are and attempt to assist in solving them. Unfortunately....it seems there are as many people willing to read "half a post".....and jump as quickly to a conclusion....as they are to accuse another of doing that!

For those of you that have yet to read all of my posts....feel free! If you choose not to.....feel free!

But don't give me a line of s**t about "not knowing" what it's like to not eat everyday.......or to have "walked in the shoes"......BECAUSE you don't know what shoes I've walked in!

I said, and I maintain, that all of the incidents of poachers/poaching I've I personally run into......did it because "they mismanged their resources"......and or were too lazy to get off their dead a** and find proper employment. And if that means working two jobs....instead of one and watching football on the weekends....then that is what it means!

What in the world are you bringing children into the world for.....if you can't, or aren't willing.....to work to insure for their well being? (Waiting to hear the "justification sob stories".......??????) Because everyone one has one! And the people most inclined to behave that way, ie. poaching, are the ones with the "most and best excuses of all!"

Same kind of choke me, sob, stories you hear for people that have been on welfare for the last six years.......and just happened to have three more children in the same period of time!

Same kind of s**t you hear in every prison of the world. "The Somebody done me wrong song!" It isn't my fault! I had a tough life! People never did like me! Somebody owes me something......(because my lazy a** doesn't want to change my lifestyle and go out and work longer and harder). Okay!!!!

If I haven't heard them all......I've certainly heard more than enough! I am stating emphatically here and now....that there may well have been a "true case of justifiable poaching"! But in nearly 50 years of life.....I haven't met one of them yet! Each and every case I've met was lazy, or mismanaged resources, or maybe should have thought about having four children on their $6.25 an hour job. (But the poor guy use to work at the mill for $30. an hour...and got laid off! Did he indeed! But I didn't tell him to live on the "brink of disaster"....paycheck to paycheck....using up every dollar of credit he could get his hands on! As if.....the possibility of a job not lasting a lifetime never existed!)

There are some people in the world that have a "sob story" and excuse for everything! And then there are people in the world that actually "pay their way"...without needing to steal from others to do it!

My four year old Granddaughter said it best....."grow up"...as she pointed her little finger at her mother during an argument!

RE: Issue of the law...
 

There's a lot to consider here.

A) Is the family really poor or do they chose to use their money for other purchases (gas, liquor, cigarettes, etc..) and depend on the kid to bring in food (cause he won't get fined and if he does he won't get a large sentence.).

B) Is the family on welfare? Do they receive food stamps? Are they assisted by the government?

C) Are the parents working? Are they unable to work?

D) Do the parents even know that the kid is doing this?

I do not even know where or how to answer this question, but I would tend to lean towards leniency with the kid until you know more of the families circumstances.

Matt

RE: Issue of the law...
 

as a retired law enforcement officer what bothers ne is the letting of the kid go.where the problem lies is if anyone sees him do this and then does the same thing. does this mean we are to allow everyone to go.what if you had someone who knew about this and used this to keep from getting prosecuted. i agree with all those who said i would go to the family first.if the kid is that young then the parents are responsible for the actions of the kid.if not stopped it can only get worse.go to the family first. the citation second. there are organizations to help the family

RE: Issue of the law...
 

I'm glad this is only a hypothetical question since the range of answers really runs the gamut of possible solutions. A friend of mine that is a warden here locally, pretty much asked the same question of his mentor when he first went on the job about 30 years ago, the answer at the time was, who said you had to see anything? The answer today would probably be something along the lines of It takes a pretty sorry person not to be able to feed your family with all of the programs available. Pride is pretty much nonexistant in most of those situations today, in short the situation probably won't even come up any more.
For those of the "The law is the law" frame of mind, may I suggest another scenario? I board your boat to do a routine boarding, I expect to find nothing criminal or out of place, just a routine boarding. I need no Probable Cause, I'm the Coast Guard, you are in U.S. waters and I own you. During the course of the boarding, I find residue of a suspicious nature in a seam on the deck, a seed of some unknown plant. One seed. By law, I can confiscate your boat on the spot, take you and all passengers into custody on suspicion of drug smuggling and turn you over to the DEA upon arriving in port. You insist you have no idea of where this seed came from, your boat is moored at a public marina and anybody could have walked onto it at almost anytime over the past two weeks since you last used it. Do I haul you in or take your word for it knowing it will be months and thousands of dollars in legal fees before you can even begin to prove your innocence? If I confiscate your boat, it will likely be subjected to a customs search in which the last stage is to take a chain saw and bisect the boat from stem to stern to enable a more thorough search of every square inch of the vessell. What would you do?

RE: Issue of the law...
 

I'd bust his tail and charge the parents if possible. If he needed food that bad he could go fishing.

RE: Issue of the law...
 

you never addressed my question. what if others see him do this and see you let him go. what if they want to do the same thing,where does it end.cruel or not it has to stop somewhere.

RE: Issue of the law...
 

Hi Coastie,

For me it isn't necessarily a case of "the law is the law" frame of mind. Because I do believe in the Constitution and I have "philosphical problems" with laws that violate the letter and or spirit of that Constitution.

But in the case of poaching.....I honestly believe based upon experience.....that it is done by people that are "not responsible financially", game hogs, and sometimes "Daniel Boone wanna be's". And generally speaking it has also been my experience that these same people most often think that it is okay to "steal from others".....and don't see violating the game laws for what it is. We no longer live in a society that hasn't provided "parachutes" for those that find themselves in extreme circumstances. And sometimes it may be "due to circumstances beyond their control"......but it has also been my personal experience that much more often it is because they were absolutely NOT responsible...didn't plan for the future.....spend as if there is no tomorrow....and in general "just plain felt that it wasn't a PROBLEM if they violated game laws....and spent their money on bullsh**t and toys". That is my problem with poachers.......and poaching!

I'm not heartless.....but let's be honest. This is not 1930.....this is 2004....and for all the money we pay in taxes...and all the assistance programs that exist, (most of which are abused), poaching is not the difference between eating and starving. It is about taking the "easy way out", shirking responsibilities, making excuses, and "crying another woe is me song"!

We like to play the "what if" games in this society! And we can come up with "what if's"......to justify just about any type of behavior. (Remember the Menendez brothers?) When, as a society, do we quit playing "what ifs".....and start holding people accountable for their behavior? When does enough.....become enough? When do we quit accepting every sob story in the book....look people in the face.....and tell them to assume responsibility for their lives? And when do we finally "hold their feet to the fire"......and make them accountable for the consequences of that behavior?

That is my "what if"!

And this isn't meant to be personal with any of you guys. This is the same question we need to start asking ourselves everyday when we look in the mirror. The same question we should expect our children to answer.....as they grow and mature. The same question we should start holding our elected officials to be able to answer. I for one......am just plain sick and tired of all the freaking excuses!

RE: Issue of the law...
 

Nothing is ever clear-cut! Every "crime" has extenuating circumstances and should be treated as such. Now, here is what it might be like when out of the kindness of our hearts we decide to give someone a break.
I am working on my woodlot one day and along comes a middle-aged man carrying a shotgun and a burlap bag. He stops and we chat for a moment or two and I realize there is nothing that I am aware of that is open season.
Soon I hear the noise of an ATV coming down the trail and it is the game warden. The warden stops and there is small talk. After a bit the warden asks what is in the burlap bag and insists the man empty its contents out for him to inspect. When he does, out onto the ground falls a couple of partridge, a rabbit, and a loon. The warden is flabbergasted and asks the man where he got the loon. The man explained how poor he was, how he hadn't been able to work for months and that his family was at home hungry and waiting him to bring home some food. He explained that this was the first time that he had ever done anything like this but felt he had no other recourse.
The warden fell for the story and lectured the man about the laws and even gave him a couple of telephone numbers to call for assistance.
As the man was walking away, having not been arrested or summonsed to court, the warden, out of curiousity asked the man if he had ever eaten loon before. The man answered with a feable, yes. (He explained the it was roadkill). Even more curious the warden asked him what it tasted like. The man explained that it tasted like a cross between a bald eagle and a spotted owl.

I think you get the point. Compassion while upholding the laws of the land can go a long way. "Render unto Ceasar that which is Ceasars" as well as "Feed the hungry and clothe the naked". We have many programs to assist those in need of food and clothing.

RE: Issue of the law...
 

IF i was the game warden i would try to figure out why he was doin it if they just need the meat i would tell him that he could get in alot of trouble if say someone else caught him so id say lay low and not to get caught. and with that im gonna give this story which i am in no way proud of ... But see my grandparents love "their" little song birds that come to the feeder at there back porch. My grandpa absolutly hates squirrles that come and steal the bird seed. Now with that said he lives in the middle of the woods with no houses around him and hes back off of the road but anytime except during the summer because i wont shoot them during the summer but anytime where its fairly cold outside if theres a squirrle on the feeder he tells me to go shoot it. Now with THAT said I dont actively hunt squirrels there for that reason right there because i kill them so illegally already and i dont like it but my grandpa is 80 years old and he just cant run out there and chase them off and every squirrel i kill goes right into the freezer for a big small game stew we have at the end of the season. Now whats so worng with that I mean yes its technically baiting and yes alot of them are out of season but they are all put to good use and not one is just left in the woods. I dont kill them just to kill them i kill them because my grandpa thinks of them as a nuisence. But I am completly different with everything else. I will not shoot at a deer out of season or on a non-doe day or on a sunday or with an illegal gun or kill over my bag limit or anything. Same with turkeys and fish even for that matter majority of my catch goes back into the water harm free. So i dont see anything to really be upset with but its gonna happen so bash away!

RE: Issue of the law...
 

there is a big difference between hunting and a nuisance kill.everyone has dodged my question.what if someone see you letting this kid get away with it.then this person gets caught doing the same thing, hiw can you prosecute one and let another go.they could use that against you in court.it has to stop somewhere.

RE: Issue of the law...
 

Hi Shotgun stalker,

Not intending to bash.....but my Dad is in his 70's......and really isn't happy with the nuisance of Social Security. So maybe we should knock off a bank or two....(after all, it's not Ft. Knox or anything).....and we'd just go on and put that money to use....rather than bother with Social Security.

My dad worked hard all his life....and it's not really like he shouldn't be entitled to some happiness at this time in his life. And not one penny would go to waste......I promise! And we'd knock them off only at night.....when no one is around....and no one could get hurt......we'd make sure of that! So I really don't see the harm to be done!;)

Use to tell my daughter.....the maximum effective range of an excuse.....zero meters!:D

P.S. We don't cheat on taxes either..........so you know we are really just ordinary good folk.[:o]

RE: Issue of the law...
 

akbound, I agree with you and my question/comment was not pointed at you, only at some of those that seem to believe there is no room for an officer, regardless of his authority to examine the circumstances of a situation.

RE: Issue of the law...
 

dep214, I'll try to respond to your question. I guess you never let somebody go with a warning for say speeding or warned a bunch of teenagers to stay away from someplace they shouldn't have been instead of hauling them in? You never wrote a ticket for 73 mph in a 55 mph zone instead of the 80 the guy was doing because you knew it would be the difference in a fine he could afford and learn his lesson (perhaps) instead of losing his license and possibly his job?
When zero tolerance for anything is utilized instead of common sense and perhaps even a bit of compassion, everybody loses, even the officer.

RE: Issue of the law...
 

Hey guys,

I'm not being personal about any of this argument.....and I'm certainly not taking any of it that way either. Even though I will frequently argue a point vehemently....and pointedly....which has the effect of seeming harsh even when it is not meant that way. And I do honestly believe that officers should have lattitude to use their judgement when enforcing infractions. (Otherwise we'd end up with the same kind on nonsense that "zero tolerance" has brought to the public school system!) So I most decidely come down on the side of allowing LE to use their experience, judgement, and discretion during enforcement, assuming consistency in application to all persons. (If you force an LE officer.....or anyone else for that matter......to use a "hammer" as their only tool.....pretty soon all problems start to "look like nails".) I am all for exercising common sense!

I have met far too many "hunters" that seem to believe that poaching is not REALLY a crime. And all too frequently attempt to justify it with stories of "suffering and misery".....when in my experience it has actually been done by "scofflaws" that could care less what the game law is. Additionally these same people in my experience have little or no difficulty in supporting habits such as smoking, drinking, spending on "toys", etc. Only when it comes time to buy the groceries.....and pay the bills.....do they seem to "have trouble earning enough money". That has been my experience!

You have to question a person's judgement when they are telling you all the financail horror stories of trying to raise a family with "X" number of children....and follow up by telling you they can't, won't, haven't.......been able to "hold a job". (Well........why the H**L NOT?) For that matter.....you brought those children into this world....find and keep two jobs! Doesn't give you any time to play or relax......should of thought of that....before you dropped your drawers to conceive another child! It doesn't get much simpler than that. A little individual responsibility goes an awful long ways! And as a society.....it da*n well past the time we start insisting that individuals exercise some!

P.S. Hey Coastie.......I didn't mean to sound as if I was being "beligerent or offended".....I wasn't. And I do understand a significant portion of what most of the arguments have been. (And I most assuredly....think the exercise of discretion and common sense....is a must!) But some of these guys are still throwing out "the same old and tired" arguments that may well have had validity generations ago. But they no longer hold water! (It is NOT a matter of Poach or starve. It's a matter of getting off their backsides and earn their keep...and when truly downtrodden....ask the appropriate agency for assistance. And "trim the excesses in their lifestyle. I'd like to have Lobster every night.....but I don't. We learn to live within our means.) And that does not include the "right" to steal from others!

RE: Issue of the law...
 

It is the parents responsibility to feed the kid. I would let him get away with it a few times or for a little while but I would talk to the police or DHS and let someone know whats going on with the parents.

RE: Issue of the law...
 

coastie,
are you saying that i have no common sense.?you never even came close to answering the question.it had so much jibberish i could not understand it.it was and still is a very simple question.you catch the boy and just warn him.as a police officer you are pwerless to do anything anyway.it is a game law and up to the local game warden to enforce that law..anyway!.you catch the boy and let him go with a warning and good talk.a real poacher sees you do this.now if the poacher is caught by you he will use this against you in court.there is no selective enforcement of tha laws.you will be unable to prosecute this man.he can tell his other poaching buddies and it grows.where does it stop.when enforcing the law you can use compassion and common sense and let someone go.if someone sees you let someone go then what?that officer can even be prosecuted for not enforcing the law.
now why do you suggest i have no common sense?

RE: Issue of the law...
 

I'd have to disagree here! As far as the officer being in trouble for not inforcing the law. I would think that just as a traffic officer can let you off with a warning, an officer could choose to let this kid go with a warning!
I don't think that he would be doing this kid a favor by ignoring his poaching though! He needs to find out what is going on in the home! It is not the kids responsibility to provide for the family, its the parents! I will also stand by my statement that if the kid is allowed to break these laws, it can lead to much larger problems later on!
I also agree with Akbound, this is 2004, not the 1930's! There is a hell of a lot of difference in these two time periods! And again I say, "too proud to ask for assistance or take an odd job, but not too proud to steal or teach your kid to steal!" Something is really wrong with that picture!

RE: Issue of the law...
 

dep214, my response is written in everyday English, there is no gibberish. Perhaps the parallel I was attempting to show is too much for you to understand. In short, there is no reason an officer, any officer, regardless of whether he is a Game Warden or a Texas Ranger can't give a warning when he feels that would be the best approach to a particular situation. If you never in your thirty year career used your discretion in a situation, then perhaps you answered your own question. I know that some things are not considered to be warnable offenses, in those situations, you let the court straighten it out but if by using a little tact and human decency you can do your job without going that route, everybody is better off.
Just as a matter of curiosity, how would a casual observer know that you had let this individual go with a warning?
The warnings I used to give out were good for a year, if the individual was stopped again within that year for the same warnable offense, they were hammered.

RE: Issue of the law...
 

I would confront the young man and his parents before making a choice. That is if it was an option in my job. There may be rare reasons for letting thier actions slip by. However I would have to find out what those reasons were and not let a violation of the law continue. In many states Game animals thriugh different programs can be provided for the real poor people. This said it is doing the family no real long term good to allow the violation to continue. I have no poblem with a landowner taking an occasioal deer or such if they are rendering damage to the cropland and I think the wardens around here feel the same. I grew up in a different time where out on the farm we did hunt most all year around for food for the table. There were not many real seasons for hunting back then where I lived.

RE: Issue of the law...
 

Just thought I'de put my two cents worth in. I don't condone breaking the law but there are still parts of this country that are poor and some people who are too proud to ask for a handout. I would have less of a problem with someone taking small game to put a meal on their table than I have with people who shoot animals just to be shooting something even if it's legal. I mean I hear people talk about shooting coyotes or groundhogs and such, not to eat but because they consider them a nuisence. I have a couple of older people that Iv'e known all my life that have a hard time getting by on their social security so I try to kill an extra deer or two for them each year,not poached we get 12 tags here in georgia, and it makes a differance. So if they are poaching just because they are too lazy to work then that would bother me but if they are going through some hard times and kill something to eat then I could turn a blind eye.

RE: Issue of the law...
 

I say again, too proud to ask assistance or work an odd job, but not too proud to steal!!?? Or even worse, send your kid out to steal for you!!!!
Something is very, very wrong here!

Also if they would have a dozen deer tags, they should be able to get enough meat in season to last the year!

No matter how you look at it, there is just no way to justify this theft!
Nor to excuse the parents irresponsibility!
This is not even close to being a matter of survival!

RE: Issue of the law...
 

Now please remember that this is a hypothetical question. But I am really appreciating all the input. Thanks!

RE: Issue of the law...
 

It is possible the parents are ignorant of game seasons, and the youth doesn't understand the concept. Sometimes a warning can go a long way.

For example this past archery season at the WMA I hunt one of the people I know was checked by the G&F officer. he did not have his WMA stamp...or was it his archery stamp...anyway he was mising one of his stamps. This person has always had his stuff in order until now. Was it an accident? I don't know and neither did the officer. Did my friend get a warning or a ticket? Well, it was his first incident in at least 5 years at this WMA, and most of us know each other and the G&F officer, and the biologist who runs this particular WMA.

It all depends on your attitude. My friend was apologetic and confused, and called his wife to bring him some money so he could go get his stamp. Well, he got a warning. it was obvious he was truthfull to the officer.

Law enforcement officers get to use discretion, and it can be a good thing when he has all the facts.

RE: Issue of the law...
 

discretion is great as long as another offender does not see it.knowone will answer my question.what if another offender sees you let him go.then that offender uses that against you when he is caught.the law has not provisions for discretion. not only can you not prosecute the other offender he can sue you for not doing your job.he would have grounds for discrimination also.

RE: Issue of the law...
 

Why not he still broke the law.

A policeman can arrest someone for a game violation. Seen it done. Or he could hold the person until a DEC officer can get there.
You trying to tell me that if a cop witnesses you shooting a deer illegally he can't arrest you? Let's say for example if you were to shoot one at night out of your car window? What State were you a cop in?

RE: Issue of the law...
 

yes that is eaxctly what i am saying.game laws do not fall under enforcement by police offocers. they can hold til a game warden arrives.it is a entirely seperate branch of the law.the reason you could not prosecute is that it would show bias in the enforcement.they both broke the law.one is not worse than the other.waiy a minute. you say you have seen a officer arrest some for a game violation and then the next minute you say at least hold them for a game officer.which is it?if you see a deer being shot illegally you can only hold them until a game officer arrives and files the case. you will be used as a witness to the offense.if both people shot a deer illegally you either have to enforce both or ignore both.you can not let one go and enforce the other. it shows bias and will not be prosecuted

RE: Issue of the law...
 

i retired after 25 years with the dallas county sheriffs dept in dallas,texas

RE: Issue of the law...
 

I live in NY I have seen a PO arrest someone for a game violation. Shooting to close to an occupied dwelling.

The reason I said he could at least hold them was because you said he was powerless to do anything.

So if you let one speeder go, you can never right another speeding ticket?

RE: Issue of the law...
 

shooting next to a dwelling has absolutely nothibg to do with game laws.holding someone and arresting them is 2 different things.you are just blabbering and reading what i said.if the second offender witnesses you allowing the first to break the law and then tries to enforce the same law on him it shows bias and will not be prosecuted.you have jumped from game laws to sppeding tickets but the same applies.if you choose to let an offender of any type go then you better hope another offender stopped for the same reason does not witness it.take the time to read what i said and quit jumping around.

RE: Issue of the law...
 

a regular police officer,even in new york, has no training in game laws.he just gets training in local and state laws. even less training in federal laws.ther is absolutely ) training in game law.even if the dwelling was in the country side it still has nothing to do with game laws.

RE: Issue of the law...
 

I understand the point that dep214 is making. Which I think....is this. If a law enforcement officer is observed enforcing the law in what is perceived to be an unequitable manner....it will call into question their veracity. And in some jurisdictions....this is more strigently applied than in other jurisdictions.

I have several friends on the local police department. It is the Police Chief's policy for this Township PD to not accept any kind of "gratuity". Now on the surface to some this seems a great idea! And to others....it might appear excessive, (and in case you are wondering why I say "it may appear excessive"), because they are not even allowed to accept a "cup of coffee" on a cold night....or a "cold soft drink"....on a hot day. In other words......nothing!

An example. The little town I live in has an annual carnival...used to raise money for the local volunteer fire department. It lasts for four days. During that period of time the local PD uses my Dad's front parking lot (four cars width) as a traffic control point. It fronts the only intersection allowing access to the carnival site (ball fields). My Dad (as well as the rest of our family) benefit....because it places LE presence right on the property....insuring a "lack of problems"....when some of the participants drink too much. The officers work this control point and alternate with other officers actually at the carnival site. They start their shifts when it's hot in the early afternoon.....and do not end them until well after midnight.....when it's cold. We have offered these officers drinks (not knowing the PD's policy) either coffee, soft drinks, and or water...and have them tell us no. And explain it's their department's policy to disallow it.

And I am a "close friend" with one of the officers. I understand the reasoning behind the thinking. By disallowing acceptance of any gratuities....it prevents either an unscrupulous person(s) from "expecting a favor in return" someday. And just as importantly....."it prevents the perception" publicly that favors are being curried. And perceptions can be as important as reality.....whether it is real or not! Having been a noncommissioned officer most of my twenty some years in the U.S. Army.....I very clearly understand the logic of such thought.....and behavior!

I do also understand the discretionary nature of authority as well. I have both experienced it as a recipient....(ie. warning for a tail light being out...that I could have been cited for).....and the practitioner. As a noncommissioned officer I exercised discretion in handling problems....based on my knowledge of a person's past behavior and performance....or lack thereof. So I do know that there is lattitude for discretion. But it is a "fine line" that any officer walks...and some jurisdictions allow "more or less discretion" by individual officers...as prescribed in their operating procedures.

In many cases for law enforcement personnel.....you're "da*ned if you do....and da*ned if you don't"!

P.S. I won't tell you the name of the Township....or the officer that told me....but this township the police will not stop a motor vehicle unless it is exceeding the speed limit by 15mph....(except School zones, Hospitals, etc.). Because their chief doesn't want his small force perpetually tied up in the magistrates office. (Plus it kind of gives you a "built in" benefit of doubt!) Agree with it or not.....that's the way it is. And I told my friend.....if he ever caught me violating the law.....I wouldn't respect him if he didn't treat me like everybody else! So he knows that is how I believe......up front!

RE: Issue of the law...
 

Why is it listed as a hunting regulation then In NY?

Discharge of Firearms and Bows
It is illegal to discharge a firearm or bow:

so that the load or arrow passes over any part of a public highway,
within 500 feet of any school, playground, or an occupied factory or church,
within 500 feet of a dwelling, farm building or structure in occupation or use unless you own it, lease it, are an immediate member of the family, an employee, or have the owner's consent.
You may hunt waterfowl over water within 500 feet of a dwelling, public structure, livestock, or person as long as none of these are in the line of fire and within 500 feet of you.

So if your shooting out of your car at a game animal they could arrest you for that too.The bullet would be passing over part of a public highway.

What's this blabber supposed to mean?

RE: Issue of the law...
 

the law talks about discharging of a firarm or shooting a weapon near a residence. it does not say one thing about game laws.police officers can only detain with a suspicion of games laws broken until a gamer officer arrives.it is extremely obvious you have little or no knowledge of laws and how they are applied.as for the ridiculous example of shooting out of a car.it is illegal to hunt like that anywhere.all a regular officer can do is prosecute for firarm violation. the game officer will use that officer as a witness in prosecuting the game law violations.you sound very young because you have little perception of what is being said.

RE: Issue of the law...
 

So it is just listed with all the other game laws even though it is not one, right....

RE: Issue of the law...
 

It's a hunting regulation you want the linK?

RE: Issue of the law...
 

that is correct. it is a general law that is placed anywhere a firarm may be used. still nothing about games law involved

RE: Issue of the law...
 

it is a general law and not a game law. it is included anywhere firearms may be used.geesh!

RE: Issue of the law...
 

dep214 you said there is a big differance between hunting and a nuisance kill, so you think it is O.K. to shoot squirrels because they are bothering someones bird feeder but not so someone can feed his family,what kind of logic is that

RE: Issue of the law...
 

i swear you all watch too much tv and no nothing about the law. a nuisance kill is yes entirely different. you have to have permission from the game officers.they will either allow you to kill the animal or trap it if possible. if trapping is possible they even help you do the trapping.i never said anything about a bird feeder.that was someone else.that is not considered as a nuisance.let me give you an example.some goes to the country just to shoot their guns.a local farmer has built a dam on his lake but the beavers and otters are burrowing holes thru it which is extremly damaging.if trapping and moving the animals is not possible then they can be killed.all they have to do is let the game officers know what is going on.the same would be with coyotes,wolves,lions,or any other animals that causes distruction of that property.

RE: Issue of the law...
 

Actually I watch very little T.V. You responded to someone who said he shot squirrels for his grandfather because they were bothering his bird feeder comparing that to the boy killing small game and you said there was a differance between hunting and nuisance killing implying that what he was doing was a nuisance killing