RE: Is it hunting??..........or Shooting??
 

I don't know how many more times I can say it before you will either read it or understand it. I already said numerous times that there is a big difference between someone busting hump just to get that shot and someone who just pops a squat with a great view and snipes. You seem unable to comprehend this fact because you keep repeating "What about the guy who works hard to set up that shot" I don't know what else to tell you.

Not very.........but so what?? A LOT of successful hunts are not the result of super skilled woodsman. Guys get lucky, deer get pushed and sometimes you are in the right place at the right time. Getting the drop on a deer 15 yards away at least takes SOME hunting skill. If you make even a small noise or move too quick he is gone.



I asked you to tell me what hunting skill is used to sit in a blind/fort/stand and snipe a deer 400 yards away??? Hunting skill.......not shooting skill. You did nothing before hand.......it's a friends fort and he said you could come shoot a deer because he knows your a good shot.

RE: Is it hunting??..........or Shooting??
 

Hi t roy,

The fact those deer stand there and appear to make themselves easy targets is probably "because" there is no rifle hunting in that part of the country. When I lived on Aberdeen Proving Grounds, (I actually lived on the Edgewood Arsenal side), deer would be out grazing in the open fields around the housing, the airfield, and the warehouse facilities. They would always be out well before dark.....well after sunup....and frequently in the middle of the day. The reason they stood around like that ignoring everybody.....was because they were NOT being hunted there!

As soon as you got "behind the fence".....back in the areas where hunting was permitted....you'd better believe the deer were acting like well "deer". No standing around in broad day light.....little movement through the day...unless joustled....and just as spooky as deer any where else they are hunted. Deer may not "think" like we do...but it doesn't take long to condition them to the specific conditions of the "threat". I have a feeling if you were allowed rifles in Illinois...within a very few years......you'd have a different opinion about that "target practice" thing!

In Alaska when you spook the "spruce grouse" they usually just fly eight or ten feet off the ground into a tree. And then sit there and stare at you. If your throwing arm is any good you could nail them with a rock. Actually, slingshots and pellet guns are frequently used to harvast them for the pot. They act that way because for centuries their enemy and threat was fox, or wolves, not men with guns. (Most Alaskans still call them "stupid chickens".) But they evolved to respond to the threat. Deer on the other hand....are conditioned much quicker!

RE: Is it hunting??..........or Shooting??
 

Has anyone ever tried to "cut through a rock" by pouring water on it? I've been told.....that with hundreds or thousands of years it can be done by the process of erosion! But by god......is it ever a slow process!;)

RE: Is it hunting??..........or Shooting??
 

I hate to return to this but-
Atlasman, you stated that a small noise or movement at close range can still bust the buck, correct? If this is the case why do most people whistle to get a buck to STOP? Just my thoughts here...

RE: Is it hunting??..........or Shooting??
 

Because they are ready to shoot when they do it. They don't whistle when their gun is still in their lap do they??

The crack of your gun better imediately follow whatever noise you make to get a deer's attention or it's white flag time.

RE: Is it hunting??..........or Shooting??
 

ak,

I don't know what else you want me to say. I address comments you bring up and you just ignore it and keep typing the same thing.

Then I ask you questions and you don't respond..............except by saying stuff like this as if I am causing the log jam.

What point are you even trying to make??.......that you interpreted my original post differently then others?? So what?? We cleared that up pages ago.

RE: Is it hunting??..........or Shooting??
 

I think he is trying to hint to you to drop this issue! this has gotten really pointless! SHUT-UP!

RE: Is it hunting??..........or Shooting??
 

This would have been dropped long ago if some of you guys would relax and
see that nobody is trying to discredit your hunting.;)

RE: Is it hunting??..........or Shooting??
 

Hi Indiana Dude,

Who said we're not relaxed?;) This is relaxing! Not everyone having these "disagreements" has their blood pressure skyrocket. Some of us find this very entertaining!

H**l.....this is what I do for fun! (Haven't some of you got it yet.) An IRS tax audit....that is stressful.....this s**t is fun! It's wintertime and we got nothing better to do!;)

And when the weather turns....and you guys all want to get together for a kegger....we'll take up a collection and "vote" for when and where! Sound good enough? (Oh....for those of us that don't imbibe....they'll be sodas and coffee.....(heavy on the caffiene:D).

P.S. Be careful of those aneurisms[X(]!

P.S.S. "ak....What point are you even trying to make??......." That's okay atlasman....I already explained to you I understand you don't get it!

RE: Is it hunting??..........or Shooting??
 

this is crazy, and there are alot of people who like to type alot more than i do obviously, pretty soon you will argue animals out west are smarter than animals in other parts of the world or visa versa

RE: Is it hunting??..........or Shooting??
 

Hi trophyhuntr,

I haven't made it back to Alaska yet (out west)....still stuck in Pennsylvania. But your suggestion would make as good a subject "to argue about" as any of the others I've seen lately;)!

RE: Is it hunting??..........or Shooting??
 

I agree that "western" animals are more wary-no, there really isn't any physiological difference, they don't see, smell, or hear better, but deer that live in open areas know that they're visible for a quarter mile, they won't stray far from cover without being confident that they're alone, and will often bolt at the slightest noise or scent, while deer that live in heavily wooded areas are fully aware that they are out of sight after running 50ft.

I've hunted both "types" of deer, open range and forrest, I've witnessed an entire 20strong whitetail herd move off only 30yrds from where I shot one of them, while I've watched others run for miles across open prairies. I fully believe that "what's good for the goose is good for the gander"-if deer are more concealed in the bush, so am I, I use this to my advantage in every way possible, while getting within 50yrds of an open range deer is MUCH more difficult, sometimes a 250yrd shot is the best you're going to get.

As I mentioned before, open range deer tend to be a lot more wary, and of course, they've got a longer field of view, they can see you as soon as you can see them, if you're in a hunting blind on the edge of a pasture, and they notice that big foreign object from way off, your hunt is busted-I've had deer spook at the sight of me in my stand at 300yrds, while I've had a buck walk up to me in the dark and literally lick the doe in heat off my boots while sitting a ground blind.

Yes, shooting skill is more stressed when you're taking long range shots on game, it's a lot easier to hit 8" at 30yrds than at 300yrds, but I don't feel that it takes less hunting skill-you've got to remember, when you have a 400yrd rifle, you're hunting every range from the end of your barrel out to 400yrds, not just the maximum of your range.

RE: Is it hunting??..........or Shooting??
 

At least I tried to explain my comments.........I think you just enjoy talking in circles.

Your unwillingness to except anything other then what you think I "REALLY meant by my first post is your problem..........the rest is just poor communication.


I think I will go out and shoot some woodchucks in the teeth at 200 yards tomorrow..........I need to brush up on my hunting skills ;)

RE: Is it hunting??..........or Shooting??
 

now that would be impressive

RE: Is it hunting??..........or Shooting??
 

Het AK- thanks for the sodas!

RE: Is it hunting??..........or Shooting??
 

I don't drink coffee either...just for your info...love to join in a keg hunt with rootbeer or cream soda though...where next? I vote we go for the African subspecie of sasquatch...

RE: Is it hunting??..........or Shooting??
 

Now.....I hunt my woodchucks in very thick edge cover. They are really keen at the smallest hint of movement, scent, etc. It is tough....but to sit and shoot one in the teeth at say......200 yards.....I don't think that'd take too much skill. Ceptin' for shooting skill.......:D:D:D:D:D:D:D;)

P.S. Did I mention I grow'd up justa shooting slugs and bows & arrows[:o]

RE: Is it hunting??..........or Shooting??
 

I think I finally made a new buddy!;)

RE: Is it hunting??..........or Shooting??
 

Wow ..
I started reading this thread on Sunday night...missed 2 days of work!
I have just one thing to say..
A good shot is a dead buck..3 yards or 300 hundred..time to gut & drag

RE: Is it hunting??..........or Shooting??
 

Exactly ;)

RE: Is it hunting??..........or Shooting??
 

Oh...I'll bite...and say maybe this set a few folks off!


I live for bowhunting...period! Yet , I was offended for the folks who regularly take game at long distances with rifles by this thread![:'(]

RE: Is it hunting??..........or Shooting??
 

Really?

It sounds to me like you need to walk a mile in some of these other hunters shoes before you can honestly say "I hunt every way"

I knew I stayed away from this thread for so long for good reason.

Atlasman , I dont think I made it past page 2 before finding you contradicting yourself!

RE: Is it hunting??..........or Shooting??
 

Hey guys,

I've got surgery scheduled for today. Some kind of tumor or cyst in the sinus cavity and roof of the mouth. So I'll more likely than not be gone for a few days....(waits for the cheers to die down). Anyhow....I didn't want some of y'all to think I was running out on this one. I'll be back as soon as the drugs wear off.....and I can suck broth through a straw. Or something like that!

Meanwhile....I want Atlasman to announce and run for President. (I haven't heard any better double-speak since...."it depends on what the meaning of is, is".) I think you got a shot man....and it's an idea worth pursuing.

Indiana Dude...you should apply to be his campaign mananger! I haven't seen a willingness to "explain for someone else" so quickly.....since well the Clinton/Gore years.

And there are apparently enough "yes" men...at your behest....to fill a cabinet!

I think we really got something going here! It'd be a shame to waste so much political talent! Maybe we could call it the Hunters Forum Platform Party...or something like that. H.F.P.P. And a catchy little phrase like the "Huff & Puff Party" (get it H.F.P.P.).....or something like that!;)

Oh.....and by the way! If you guys get any other "good" threads going while I'm gone....save some for me!:D

Keep it real guys!

RE: Is it hunting??..........or Shooting??
 

AFTER READING ALL OF THIS ALL I CAN SAY IS,,,,, I DONT CARE IF YOU USE A BOW,SHOT-GUN,RIFLE OR WHAT EVER IS LEGAL IN YOUR STATE. HUNTING IS HUNTING. JUST TO GET OUT IN THE GREAT OUTDOORS. I HAVE HUNTED OUT WEST AND LOVED EVERY MINUTE OF IT. ALL THAT MATTERS IS THAT WE ALL STICK TOGETHER!!!!! THERE IS STRENGHT IN NUMBERS.......TAKE CARE ALL FELLOW HUNTERS AND HAVE A SAFE HUNT.....

RE: Is it hunting??..........or Shooting??
 

LMAO

after reading a few pages of this i was thinking the same thing akbound.

this guys got a line of bull$#!t almost as long as the clintons.

RE: Is it hunting??..........or Shooting??
 

were wishing you good luck and a fast recovery akbound
well miss you around here

RE: Is it hunting??..........or Shooting??
 

Really


Not sure what you mean.........I hunt archery, shotgun, muzzleloader, and have hunted rifle in PA. I will also be heading to West Virginia next year and hopefully New Mexico if my schedule allows. I have hunted every legal way there is. I have never KILLED a buck with a rifle because of the length of the trip and expense of the tag I don't really want to shoot a small deer just to fill the tag. I wait for a big boy............and am still waiting. I've got news for ya, I sit with that rifle and HOPE for a long range shot on a good deer. I have no problem with it at all........and will take that shot in a second. I am just honest with myself and understand it will be my marksmanship more then anything else that puts that deer down (because I don't stalk, I just sit with a nice view).

Shotgun experience is by far my most extensive and I LOVE IT!!!! I will NEVER not gun hunt...........but when I drop a deer with a slug I understand that not every one is because of hunting skill alone........some required no hunting skill.......some required a lot......some a little.........mix in some luck, good shooting skill etc and so on.

I killed a doe last year with my gun that someone else was shooting at and it ran right past my tree. All I had to do was make a good shot on a running deer which fortunately I did. I am proud of that deer, she tasted great, it was a clean instant kill................but hell, it was 50% luck (I was the only thing between her and 1,500 acres of woods and she ran right by my tree) and 49% shooting skill (she was dead in mid air) I guess the 1% was hearing and seeing her coming because I was up a tree and if I was on the ground it may have been too late once I saw her. Nothing to be ashamed or get defensive about.

You guys seem to have a problem with admitting that you don't have to be a great hunter to sit in a stand and pick something off 300 yards away........Why?? Hell, I have seen video of paraplegics in Quickie chairs shooting HUGE bucks way the heck out in some food plot..........are you telling me that is a demonstration of hunting skill??? Cmon guys.

I have no problem admitting that some of the deer I have killed were the product of something other then hunting skill. Sometimes you get lucky, sometimes they just seem to fall right in your lap. Geesh, the biggest buck I ever killed was this year and I was just strolling through some goldenrod going to meet my brother and thinking about football and turkey and family.........next thing I know a buck is trotting right at me...........obviously concerned more with what's behind him then what's in front of him. I actually said "JESUS CHRIST!!" OUT LOUD!!!......then was focused enough to stop him with a grunt and make a good clean shot. Hunting skill was involved, but mostly luck......I had walked that same path 50 times that year.......if I had left 30 seconds earlier I may have never seen him........if other hunters weren't making noise down the hill he probably never comes my way and I meet my bro and go have some turkey. When people see him on my wall and ask me about him I am not going to stick out my chest and proclaim I had stalked him for months and played the wind right and brought him in with some light rattles and grunts and every trick in my bag..................NO, I will say "Yea, I was going to meet my brother and head home......I was in a field and looked up and here he comes......BANG!! GAME OVER. Hell, my Safari SLing may have had as much to do with me getting him as anything........if I had my gun over my shoulder I probably don't get that shot off. Thank you Cabela's ;)

Nothing to be ashamed of........just the truth. I have plenty of stories about deer I killed in their beds and in tough areas to hunt where my hunting skills were primary and the shot and luck were minimal...........I don't see what the big deal is about admitting there is a difference. After all, isn't that why a lot of guys take up archery?? Because they are looking for more of a challenge to their hunting skills..........they have to be in close, not a mile away. This is pretty common knowledge isn't it??



I think you need to look and read again then.

RE: Is it hunting??..........or Shooting??
 

Yea, that is what we would have all been thinking and worrying about

The only thing more surprising then that statement is the fact that you are not sure if you have a tumor or a cyst [:o]:([:o]

Dude........you might want to ask someone because there is quite a difference.


Good luck man............sinus problems suck.

RE: Is it hunting??..........or Shooting??
 

BOWFANATIC,

Since no one else has been willing to answer me on this maybe you can offer me your opinion.


What hunting skill is required to sit in a stand or blind and shoot a deer that is say 350 yards away in a field??

You didn't stalk up to that point, it's not your stand (A friend said you could hunt his land and put you there)..........you are not calling or using scent lures.......just waiting for a deer to poke it's head out into the field. Half hour goes by and a few doe come out followed by a nice 8. You settle your crosshairs on the top of his back because you know your gun and bullet drop and you drop him in his tracks........350 yards. What hunting skill was employed that helped you get that deer??

RE: Is it hunting??..........or Shooting??
 

after reading this comment i whole heartedly agree with your shooting comment in this case you would need good marksman skills and very little else

as for the rest of us (WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE GUYS THAT ROAD HUNT) we get off our @$$ and go look for the game(stalk) in which it does require some hunting skills and being a marksman is a plus

RE: Is it hunting??..........or Shooting??
 

See this I don't get.

Just a few posts ago you said I was full of bullsh!t..........now you post a clear insult to anyone who doesn't stalk and imply that all stand hunting requires no skill because we don't "get off our a$$"

Who is "The rest of us"?? I am the only guy that hunts from a stand? I stalk a lot........and I stand hunt a lot. Some times based on safety concerns.

Geez, if people got upset at me saying long range bombing was more shooting then anything..........I can't wait to see what they think of your condeming of all stand hunting as no skill. YIKES.

RE: Is it hunting??..........or Shooting??
 

The skill comes from putting the stand in the right spot . You can sit for days upon days with a good veiw but if there aren't any deer using that area all you've got is a restful place to sit. The skill then becomes having the confidence to make that shot. Which takes practice. Sure it's different to shoot across the valley than look down on one from a tree stand but the fact that you're seeing a deer is where the skill comes from. ( assuming the hunter did all the scouting for stand locations)

RE: Is it hunting??..........or Shooting??
 

Hey Superman....er..I mean Atlasman,

I'm bbbbaaaccccckkkkk! Turns out the surgery went well...just have to wait on the biopsy results to ascertain what's up. (The surgeon didn't know what he was dealing with...until he "got in there" and saw what it was. On the X-ray it was just one big "void". He couldn't make the diagnosis from 300 yards...he had to get within "spitin" distance....to get a good look. You know how hard that can be?!?) But anyhow....except for the gauze in my mouth (feel and look like a deer grazing)...and the vicodin (and residual anesthesia....I'm back and ready to go)! Hope you're not too disappointed!;)

Actually started the morning at one office for a couple of root canals on novocain.....then a 45 minute drive to another nearby town...for the surgery. Other than the "junk in the back of my throat" tasting like "crap".....it all went fairly well. Or the parts I remember.....did! (At least until the rest of this anesthesia wears off....then we'll have to see!)

'Nuff about me.....how's that election campaign coming? Got the team all "up an running" yet? You might want to consider adding at "least one" on those long range rifleman. Seriously.....they can see things coming from a little further out! Hate to get blind sided....because of myopia.

Truth of the matter is....you've made some very valid points. And not that I suppose you care...or give a s**t.....but if it wasn't for such a "superior, smug" attitude, I think you'd have found alot more agreement...than argument!

But that's okay anyway...like I said...it's winter...we're bored...and its all been highly entertaining. At least for those of us that can contain our "blood pressure problems;)!

Anyhow...on the your next flight through Metropolis....say, "hi", to Lois for us!

P.S. Jimmy too!

RE: Is it hunting??..........or Shooting??
 

So.........it's not what I said........it's how I said it?? That is moronic.

In the future you may benefit from not trying to apply emotions, moods, or tones to internet posts. Stuff typed out on a screen rarely if ever captures the way a person would convey that message in real life with facial expressions, tone of voice and body language. There is no "superior smug attitude" and never was......it's all just a bunch of words that paint a different picture in each readers mind. You seem like a kind of guy that likes to read between the lines and figure out what someone is REALLY saying.............well sometimes there is nothing between the lines and it's just a guys opinion..........nothing creative, sinister or sneaky. WYSIWYG.

It's amazing the leaps and bounds this thread took in multiple directions based on nothing more then people going off on mental tangents.

To say that you agree with most of what someone says after 5 pages of blasting him for saying it is ludicrous.

RE: Is it hunting??..........or Shooting??
 

Sorry Atlasman but I think most of the ones I have seen have shot their bucks closer to 50-60 yds. 'course that is what I have seen, and not you...

And just because a doctor hasn't told you what he is really looking at and can only give you a general sense of the matter is no excuse to attack a man with some sort of ailment.
and a cyst is actually related to a non-malignant tumor which is a form of cancer, so they are actually quite similiar.

RE: Is it hunting??..........or Shooting??
 

Attention all readers,

Look in the USA Today sport section tomorrow. I heard that Vegas is posting odds on who will get the last word.............

Atlasman or akbound

Next they'll be taking their show on the road.........

MTV ......whitetail celebrity death match!


Bn'R

RE: Is it hunting??..........or Shooting??
 

OK guys, we're way off topic and have been off and on for about 3 pages now. Going to put this one to rest.