Reality Check Time..No Record!
 

Past few days everyone's been ballyhooing about this "new WR deer in velvet". Seeing as how neither B&C nor P&Y have record categories for velvet this obviously cannot be true. So let's take a look at it from another perspective and see what we have shall we?

I'll try and put this another way so you people can see the reality of this. I'll give you an example of what's going on here. Johhny B just shot a really nice 6 pointer, I mean it's a beauty. Seriously. The G1's are at least 10" long and the G2's are even more impressive coming in at about 14 iches. The rack has great mass and with an inside spread of 23" and main beams of equally amazing proportions. What makes this rack even more impressive is the fact that Johhny B took this buck during the early archery season so the buck still has it's velvet on. We've done some prelimanary scoring and the buck easily makes P&Y. What's even more amazing is after doing our research we have discovered that this deer is a new WR 6 point in velvet.

Ok, are you starting to get the gist of this? Even if it is the largest 6 point in velvet ever taken (and the score would not even be considered official by P & Y with the velvet on it..that's why they have the asterisk beside them.) who cares? It would probably be ranked about 15,894 , if it made the book at all, and scaling the velvet off of it would redce the score even further. . The same cam be said for that buck everyones saying "OOOOOO....a new world record deer in velvet, scoring in at 214". Do you see the problem here? The deer is a non-typical AND ONLY GROSS SCORES 214. Big deal. Oh and for the record folks, that's not a net score it's a gross score, without the 60 day drying period and with velvet on. At 214 this buck doesn't even rank in the top 1000 for non-typicals. Take that velvet off, and you're probably looking at a deer that may not even qualify for B&C after deductions are taken into account.

So call it whatever you want. Fact of the matter is it's not that impressive. Oh and one more little tidbit for you. This is old news. It happened way back in September and has subsequently been re-scored......194 as a non-typical. THIS IS THE NET SCORE. In other words the deer only makes the book by 4 inches. That's some record....NOT!!!!!! Later.

Oh and one more thing of interest should be noted here. Jim was shooting a bow with 75% let off at the time. Take a look at the photo guys. Course I believe P & Y is changing the rule about that,,but I'm not sure it's retroactive.

RE: Reality Check Time..No Record!
 

White-Raven,

Wow!!! You gotta let that hostility go man!! It's X-mas. I for one wouldn't enter any bucks into the books unless it's a record and I could make some cash. Kind of sad to think you can make money off of public property once you shoot it, but you can. It's just not really that important for me to have my name in the records. I think that buck is awesome. Many, many guys go a lifetime not even seeing a deer like that much less shoot one. If you really want to get technical about it....why is P&Y changing their rules about the 65% letoff thing?? Cause it's all about the cash. They are losing members because more and more guys are shooting bows with more letoff. That equals less cash for P&Y. Records are fine for research and record keeping and are cool cause you can see pics of big deer, but you can't get all that wrapped up in them. It's your name in a book....big deal. I'd like to know where you hunt where that buck isn't that impressive. I'd pack my bow up and be there in a heartbeat. What do ya say? :D

RE: Reality Check Time..No Record!
 

It might not be arecord but to me it would be a BIG DEAL. How many non-typicals have you shot that score 214?

For the last time white Raven is not a man, Geez.

RE: Reality Check Time..No Record!
 

Charlie P...2 non-typicals over 200....3 typicals over 170.....7 typicals over 140. And I've seen literally thousands of record book racks. Not while hunting though. Just through the course of my travels and meeting with people.

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WR...even with those kills, you don't think that the buck was a monster? You only have two that score better than it. If what your saying is true.

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I'm very impressed, seriously.

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If I shot a buck like that with my bow....I'd be drunk for a week. :D

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This is all news to me...though I had a feeling that WR would be posting on some of these stories sooner or later...;):D

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So WR are you saying you would have passed on this buck?

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Hey. It's a great buck. Don't get me wrong. I'm just trying to put things into perspective here.

RE: Reality Check Time..No Record!
 

WR-can I hunt your stands?:D

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WR post the pictures of these deer, im impressed

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Hey Charlie I thought someone had been hunting my place while I was down in Cuba getting them cigars!!! WR are you the one that broke that gate to my fence and made my blinds elevator door squeak?;)

RE: Reality Check Time..No Record!
 

Well I have 5 over 200, 4 over 180, 3 over 170, 2 over 160, and a partrige in a pear tree. I would love to post picks but...uh..um.. oh yeah, my camera is ...um...broke. Yeah, that's it my camera is broke and every store within 500 miles is sold out You guys do believe me though don't you.;)

RE: Reality Check Time..No Record!
 

WR, they don't score velvet deer in velvet. They peel it, and then score it. The buck gained "ZERO" inches by being in velvet. And as I posted before, the previous velvet record scored in at just over 196 inches. Pope and Young does not have a separate category for velvet records, but they do recognize them. When was the last time you shot a velvet buck? And I'd love it if you could post some pics of those bucks you got.

RE: Reality Check Time..No Record!
 

I've been reading alot of White Raven's postings lately, she seems to be very educated when it comes to scoring and knowledgable of record book animals. However, it seems that you hold alot of hostility and anger towards animals that people post that are dang nice bucks, and you question the legitimacy of all of them it seems. That's just what I have observed from your postings.

I'm not looking to get into an argument or anything, I'm not really knowledgable when it comes to scoring or record book animals, I'm simply stating what I've observed, that's all.

Also not trying to discredit you WR, but it is sooo easy to be someone we're not on the web......I'm also very impressed if you have in fact taken such animals as you've said, do you have photo's because we would all love to see them, that is some very impressive stats. for scores.

Sorry for my rambling.

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If I'm reading between the lines right a few people are saying put up or shut up.LOL. I wouldn't post em just out of principal.

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Oh my god! White Raven is Bill Jordan!

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Charlie I have a feeling that WR is taking a page out of the Rompola book of claimed kills! [8D]

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Is that legal

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Does it make me a bad person if I try to be objective about these things. I'm not here to be anyones back slapper. I don't take things at face value especially in this day and age. But I also look into the facts before I challenge what has been posted. And more often than not, the claims are grossly exaggerated. You think I'm just sitting here on my little Island formulating hypothesis? I get on the phone and talk to people in my network. Not everyone just sits around their little area and hunts within 50 miles of home. Some of us get around a little more than that. So before you shoot your mouths off and get on my case for challenging the facts, look back at the threads I've contested. Appears to me like I was right about all of them.....Zaft and Rompola being amongst them. Go figure. I stand by my remarks.

RE: Reality Check Time..No Record!
 

Do you have pics of your deer. We'd love to see them.

Of course Eastwood would say they are fake.:D

RE: Reality Check Time..No Record!
 

factoid for you:


I am sure that if he want to get it scored typical it would make the P&Y with ease.
Any animal that makes the book is considered a record animal, you know why they RECORD it, even if just barely beating the min. the fact remains it is a trophy animal! The original post never stated it was a record overall but potentially a record with velvet on it...again I fail to see why this is such a hard thing to swallow for some[>:].

RE: Reality Check Time..No Record!
 

Thanks Skeeter for correcting me regarding mimimum score for non-typicals. Looks like this one doesn't even qualify for B&C. You know the same bunch of people that are getting on my case here also took issue with the fact that I said that Zaft would not be the next P&Y typical due to the fact that the G3 will be scored as an abnormal point. Well these people came along, putting me down, called me names and did basically what you're seeing here. And guess what. they were wrong abut that too. I love it. Skeeter calling something a record because it has velvet on it does not occur. The rack is merely listed within the category to which it belongs according to it's score. You have to remember one thing here. Every deers antlers have velvet on them at one point in time. Because you harvest one that has it still means you have to give it special consideration? P & Y sure as heck doesn't. Neither should we. It's just another nice non-typical amonst thousands..only diff is this one has the velvet on it. There's been tens (10's)of deer shot this year alone that score better than that one. The score is 194...velvet or no velvet, its not a record.

RE: Reality Check Time..No Record!
 

WR we still await the pics of your deer, oh by the way are they in the record book or are they canned hunt deer?

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Taz you devil!

I was waiting to see the pics to ask that!

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Oh I have a feeling we will see some pics from him, I just wonder what web site he will down load them from that no one will catch him on! Oh I know, he could give us the page numbers and his name to where we can look them up in the B&C or P&Y record books, now that would be proof!:eek:

RE: Reality Check Time..No Record!
 

I understand there isn't a seperate cat for velvet animals but the fact remains they do annotate it with the * and if this deer did fit number #1 in this unclassified area then the original post had merit...and to some they find it interesting to note it was velvet. Take a look at the response about wow in velvet and you'll realize that taking a trophy animal with moss is anything but a typical hunting season fro most.

As to the basics lesson of every deer has velvet...c'mon WR! We didn't need you to tell us that!!!! For many they don't have the opportunity to hunt deer in the velvet stage so it is a big deal.

As to all the other hub bub about how right you were, I remember the posts and the only thing I stated was lets give credit to the animal and forget the hunter for once! Hey the deer lived to grow them and all we did was get lucky and snuff out his life....and yet we think we really accomplished something[:'(]. Oh don't get me wrong harvesting a trophy animal is a real accomplishment but we wouldn't be in this position if we gave the rec. to where it was due!!!!!!!!;)

RE: Reality Check Time..No Record!
 

Just so the rest of you guys know for your information.............I thought I recognized the handle "White Raven" from another message board.......I could be wrong, but if my memory serves me correctly I believe all of her posts were removed from the "Bowsites" message boards.

If I am correct.......again, I could be wrong......but if I am correct I think that there were alot of arguments started on that web board regarding Zaft and Rompola and the handle "White Raven" was in the middle of it all until the posts were removed.

Like I said in my previous post, I'm not looking to get into any arguments or anything, but it seems that every time a big buck is posted she is the first to discredit it. Why do we need to argue among ourselves so much?? Why can't we just all get along?:D

RE: Reality Check Time..No Record!
 

WR ,
don't let these guys ride ya . BTW , never mind the deer pics , post some of yourself ! (Heavy breathing)

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Geez Phil, aren't you a little old to be tattletaling. My god man..grow up. What are you going to do next..go running to your mother if I call you a name? I mean, really, get a grip. FYI, I was not allowed to post further on the bowsite due to legal actions initiated against Rompola and Buck Fever Synthetics a few years back by a group I am associated with. Coincidentally one of one of the Bowsites Sponsor. Don't bite the hand that feeds me sort of deal.

RE: Reality Check Time..No Record!
 

Just show us some pics of the monsters you've killed.

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WR

Post pics of your deer and let everyone see them, that would end this for sure

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White Raven, Kristin G, Weiber Rabe, on this site, Bowsite and who knows how many other sites she or whatever it is has had a bunch of names and pretty much only posts to discredit or run down stories of big deer.
If it is a world class animal WR will run it down.
Always comes off all high and mighty claiming to be in the know but never giving any real information other than, "My sources say this... " "My network that..."It will be revealed....."All stuff that most anybody could say.
All bow down for the great, all knowing White Raven. Don't bother to disagree with her/it becasue you don't travel around the continent shooting big deer and talking to very important people while fondling thousands of trophy racks like she/it does and thus must not know anything. We're all just a bunch of rubes, you know.

I don't know why its such a big deal out of it. They are deer. Cripes, who cares if it is not a new world record. Big friggin deer. And they're dead. Somebody shot it. Get a life already.

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I'll bet that they were farm raised, pets.

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Hey Cyrus aren't you one of those geniuses that said "hey lay off Zaft. That's a typical through and through. And the G3 is a typical point." I heard you running me down when it came to that topic as well as I was a opponant of that deer becoming the new archery record. Course you shot off your mouth but I noticed you weren't so quick to shoot it off once I was proven correct. And correct me if i'm wrong but it seems to me your also one of the very few that thinks Rompola's deer is legit. You're going to find this hard to believe, but your opinion doesn't really mean much to me.

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WE WANT PICS OF WR DEER

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Nope, don't think I've ever told you to lay off Zaft. I may have told you to just plain shut up after getting annoyed at all your one track minded posts, I could be wrong, I don't keep track of these things. I know I've never said anything about the G3 being typical. I know that for a fact because I could care less about G3 this or that.
Nope, wrong again. Never cared about Rompola either.
I just get annoyed by how full of yourself you are and by all your blathering.

Don't care about my opinion? Doesn't suprise me. You, being as smart and important as you are, are the only one that matters right?

I can't believe I'm wasting my time with you.

I'm out.

RE: Reality Check Time..No Record!
 

This is my first post, so Howdy to all. Good grief, White Raven. Why do you hunt? For me atleast, it is a personal pursuit. It seems that your ego is waaaay to invested and that hunting is a competition. Who cares if somebody kills a big-buck? Why try to discredit them? If they did it illegally, they will get caught and embarrassed. If they don't get caught, well...they have to live with it on their conscience. Doesn't concern me in the least and I fail to understand why it is so incredibly important to you.

Do you enjoy hunting for hunting's sake? If there wasn't a "trophy" in your woods would you still go for the pure freedom and thrill of hunting a meat deer? Do you feel you have to kill something bigger and this validates you as a hunter?

I'm sorry, but your attitude is representative of everything I despise about the direction hunting is going. I fear vindictive people like you will do us all a-lot of harm in the future. Post the pics, please. You seem to be ignoring that request.

RE: Reality Check Time..No Record!
 

White raven, we are all anxious to see the pics!!!!

Why do you continue to ignore the request for pics?

Could it be there are none?

Or maybe the only ones you can come up with are off the net of other folks deer?