JagMagMan

In reading some of the other threads here lately, it has occurred to me that a lots of us, me included, sometimes fail to see the difference between a hunter and a poacher! This is a sad fact because most non-hunters and anti' s in particular do not see a difference in a poacher and a hunter either. The anti' s don' t care! To them we are all seen as one anyway, and they do not care that there is a difference. The non-hunters need to know the difference between hunting and poaching, because they can be swayed to our side or to the anti' s side!
As I said originally, we " hunters" do not seem to see the difference either!
That is really sad, for one reason or another, we don' t realize that what we don' t like about someone else may not be the style of hunting that they choose, but the underlying fact that they are actually breaking the law! We as hunters need to be supportive of legal methods of hunting, and we need to distance ourselves from law breakers! POACHERS!
They may be friends, they may even be family, but what they are doing is not only illegal, it gives hunting and hunters a bad name!
You know the type, the drivers that cross onto others property, the dog hunter that drops his dogs off on one side of your property and goes around to the otherside, even the still hunter that " still hunts" over your four foot fence. The guy that takes an extra deer because there are so many unfilled tags and it won' t hurt the deer population!
I have even heard of a guy that is planning to hunt a shotgun only area with a bull-barreled rifle! He thinks the large barrel will be seen as a shotgun! I hope he thinks the wardens are that stupid!
Well, I could go on and on, but you get the point! These people are breaking the law and are POACHERS! What they are doing is just as bad as the spotlighters, they are thieves! What they are doing is stealing our freedoms and our right to legally hunt!
It is time we see them for what they are and what they are doing to the sport of hunting. We need to quit making excuses for them, and we need to especially quit overlooking them! As I said, we have overlooked them to the point that we make excuses for them, or even just look at them as bad hunters!
Some rookie hunters may be " bad hunters," these people are law breakers, they are poachers and not " hunters! Anyway, I didn' t mean to vent so much! It' s just that, putting any personal ethics aside, there is a distinct difference between legal hunting and poaching!

gkferris

I see the distinctions in terms of ethics rather than defining hunters/poachers by the legal definition. In my opinion, the man who jacklights a deer out of season or falsely uses a tag that he shouldn' t because his family needs the meat (and we all know that in some cases that really IS the case) is a much better and more ethical hunter than the man who legally hunts over bait where that is allowed, or shoots a tame animal in an enclosure somewhere or hunts on one of these " ranches" I see on the outdoor channel just for the sake of killing a " trophy" . I would be much more proud to call the man who shoots a few extra turkeys for his childrens' dinners a fellow hunter than shake the hand some jerk with too much disposable income who hunts corsican ram somewhere in Texas because it makes him feel exotic or more of a man. I hunt myself both because I prefer the meat of wild game and because I don' t know what I would do if I didn' t hunt, and I say we need more guys like me and more guys out there to harvest meat for the table and fewer people trying to turn hunting into some testosterone driven quest to prove who has a larger male organ. And while we' re at it, let' s lose the greedy ranch owners and gadget makers turning hunting into a high-tech industry.

FL/GA Hunter

If jacklighting is spotlighting at night, then, no. That is always poaching and always wrong.

gkferris

yeah, I was referring to spotlighting. And around here it' s one of the most favored methods of crop damage control and with proper crop damage permits it isn' t even illegal. And what precisely makes it wrong? If it' s the fact that the deer doesn' t have a chance then that' s precisely my point. The man who has a family to feed, especially if he has a job as well and can' t devote the necessary time into actual " hunting," needs that certainty of a kill provided by a spotlight. He' s not in it for fair chase. To him a deer is just a really inexpensive beef cow.

hardluck71

It is truly staggering how quick we as HUNTERS are to fire upon each other regarding ethics and legallity. I am confused as to what stance I am to take. What is right or wrong? What is ethically legal and what is un-ethically legal? I know in my heart what I should do and how I should act when hunting or when teaching someone to hunt. I have never wanted to stand on a perch and preach down to my brothers of the bush on how they should proceed to take deer. I know what the laws are in my state and I hunt within them. I also know the feelings I get if I harvest a young buck or doe and how I feel if I harvest a mature deer.

JagMagMan' s statements can not be any more true. He made a statement about how we should band together as hunters and not consistantly criticize each other for our legal methods. In the VERY FIRST RESPONSE gkferris did just that.

I have a question. What will it take for us to stand together as we should?

I started another thread about Baiting a week or two ago and BAM!...Insults on peoples integrity and ethical values.

Again, What will it take?

Tazman

In my book those people who kill deer legally, no matter what the method are hunters and as a result they are my brothers and sisters, those that kill deer illegally are poachers and deserve every punishment that they can be given within the law.

royak

I agree with the Tazman but I will say this something that has bothered me for a long time on this board many many post start out I got this last night or look at what I shot last night now most of us think they are talking about last evening not night but to a anti what does it look like.

JagMagMan

GK, if it were not for the sad fact that you actually believe what you are saying, your comments would be laughable!
You are talking about taking game out of season! Totally illegal! Anywhere, anytime! You are not talking about a "hunting method," you are talking about breaking the law, PERIOD!
You also mentioned spotlighting. Spotlighting for population control, or crop damage control, by permit, would be a legal method of harvest.
Other than that, spotlighting has always been a popular method of POACHING and is highly illegal most anywhere you go!
Also, I know that some people depend upon their kill to have meat to eat. For most of us hunting is a sport. While I use every morsel of meat that I get, if I were out of work and/or money, the first thing I'd have to give up after giving up my computer and internet service, would be hunting! I could buy more food with the money than I could ever bring home from hunting.
Even if you were poor and could hunt on the very cheap side, being poor does not give you the right to break the law! If you can justify, illegal hunting because of some "need," then I guess you can justify shoplifting, or even armed robbery too!
And Royak, I understand what you are saying about hunters making statements like "I got a deer last night," I'm sure they are refering to legal hunting hours, but you are right, it doesn't sound good!

model722

JMM hunting to feed your family is NOT like steeling, steeling is when a person takes something from another. A person works, earns, makes, etc... his/her belongings, nature is not anyones belonging. Hunting is taking something from nature, and the last I knew no one owned nature. My question is who makes the laws, and just because they are there are they really what is best? NY has stupid hunting laws if you look at it as QDM, I'm sure there are other states that have stupid laws, be honest? Another question do we follow the law that is written for the sportsman or the law that is for the guy that is hungry? PA past laws about antler restriction, is this really good for hunting, or is this just another way to get hunters to pi** at each other?

Taz wrote a good thread about the guy that ran after a an animal for 8 hrs., so he could eat. Now if that same guy had access to a 4 wheeler or some type of vehicle(boat etc...) and chased the animal down so he could eat, would everyone still say no big deal? Now lets say in his part of the world it would be legall for him to chase his meat with a vehicle is he still ethical? How many of you have hunted for racoon, coyote, etc... at night with lights, if it's ok for one animal then why not another?

model722

This is kind of funny you could buy more food if you gave up hunting. It cost me the price of one bullet and the lic. a year to get 35-55 pounds of meat. Now fine I sell my gun that might help buy some food, then what sell my soul? I hear folks give this argument all the time sorry but it is wrong. I know some people that still hunt with old cheap shotguns they wouldn't get much for the gun if anything. You can not prove that it would be in there best interest to give up there gun so they could eat cheaper because it would NOT.