Magnification on a riflescope.
 

I went hunting this weekend and missed a decent deer due to my scope. I have a nikon prostaff 3-9-40 riflescope with nikoplex reticle. I always sight my gun in at 3x at about 75 yards. I'm limited on clear shots around here. To make a long story short I zoomed my scope in at 6x and missed the deer. Came home and was shooting dead on zero. Zoomed in the scope to 9x just to see what it would do. It dropped the bullet about 12 inches low. Why would a scope change the point of impact when just simply zoomed in. Thx for the input.

It shouldn't make any real difference in impact point and if yours did what you are saying I'd be talking to a Nikon rep. and asking for a replacement ASAP!

As an experiment;

Shoot 5 shot groups; one "group" on 3X, one "group" on 6X & one "group" on 9X.

If you have 3 (tight !) groups all at different points of impact, you can send it back with confidence (enclose target as proof) !!!

Let us know the results of the 3 groups set on the 3 different powers.

Pretty common really although 12 inches at 75 yards is more than usual it is something that should always be checked.

My Prostaff is the same at 3X or 9X where it hits. The eye relief is really tight on the Prostaff that is my only complaint on that particular scope.

AutumnGhost
 

I called Nikon today and they just told me to download the spot on app for phone. The rep said that it will move the reticle. He basically said I gotta guess where to aim.

Yes, Very good idea! Also post us a pic of the target.
Maybe we could help more if we could see the groups.

??? That makes no sense. Sight in at 3x and you need to guess where you might hit if you adjust your power to 6 or 9?

My scopes hit the same at 3x or 9x or in between.

Don't know how you came up with that lame, incorrect statement because a decent scope will not change a bullet's impact at it's various power settings. If they did to any extent, there wouldn't be any being sold! If one does change impact points to any extent, I would tell the person just like I told the OP, to contact the manufacturer and have the scope repaired or, better yet, replaced.

You completely lost me with that post! Please explain what in the heck you are talking about.

That rep is blowing smoke up where the sun don't shine. It doesn't matter if the scope is at 3X or 9X. If you're using the center reticle your POI should be the same.
What he may have been talking about is your BDC reticle (if you have one). That will definitely change depending on your power setting. But a straight duplex reticle there shouldn't be any movement in the crosshair - only magnification.

A change in eye relief due to different magnifaction could make you use a different cheek weld, that could make a minor change in impact. Or at high magnification you have better clarification on your target. Still this all amounts to slight changes in impact. 12 inches means something is very wrong.

A BDC reticle has drastic changes with magnification. That is one way the Spot-On website is used for. The crosshair will stay constant throughout various magnification. The rep gave some obvious misinformation. I am pretty familiar with the Spot-On website.

If being obnoxious made you smart you would sure be a genius.

Experience is how I came up with that statement. Ive never had one 12 inches off but it is a common problem in "decent" scopes whether you know it or not. Ive seen it with my own eyes on numerous occasions and have scopes on hand that do it and have seen higher end scopes than the Nikon prostaff do it.

Nikon
 

There is an app on the app store called Nikon Spot On. It's supposed be a ballistics calculator to show you where to aim your scope at different magnification settings. I thought it was kinda worthless myself. The customer service tech said that it will show you where to aim with my scope, but I kept telling him that my scope doesn't have the BDC reticle. He wasn't very helpful with any of it.

If you have a bore sight use that and see if you can see it move through the power range.

and trust me....you will want to check this from now on before you hunt with low-mid range scopes or better yet you might as well test them all because it IS a pretty common problem.

Experience huh? Funny that you live in a state that doesn't even allow a high powered rifle to deer hunt with. You've also never mentioned any out of state hunts you've been on and yet you're now an expert on this, LOL!!! Well I have two safes full of scoped rifles and have been shooting for more years than you've been alive and I've yet to have a rifle off more than a fraction of an inch at 100 yards between low and high power setting.

Nikon
 

I'm going to try to sight it in tomorrow at 6x and 9x. I may post some pictures

I'm not going to argue with you about it.....you can just continue to think what you think I don't really care.

The guy is obviously talking about their BDC reticle system and has no idea what you were talking about. I'd go up the ladder and talk to someone within the company that can give you some satisfaction with the problem you obviously have if that rifle was 12" off from one power setting to another like you mentioned. Good luck and keep us posted!

I love it when someone is wrong and just flat won't admit it. Nobody on this thread other than yourself has come up with what you did because you're flat out WRONG! :rolleye0011: PS: I'm certainly glad you don't care, but if I were wrong I would!

This forum is so much better when you are not on it.

Try some research and you will find out it is a fact. I have a Bushnell trophy xlt in my safe right now that does it.

If you would care that you are wrong then you should care because you are in fact wrong. I don't care if you shot rifles with Jesus you are still wrong.

LOL! Get a grip man and just admit that some people on here know more than you do and have a lot more experience and knowledge on certain things. I'll make you a deal. You go find anything on the net put out by any experienced gun writer that will back your claim up and I'll more than offer you an apology right on this Forum. Short of that, you can go take a hike and quit your BS!

google "poi moves with scope power" and read until you are ready to apologize I guess. Its not hidden information

Its not supposed to happen but it does....quite often with cheap scopes,more than it should with mid range scopes and even rarely with high end scopes.

It IS a common problem with variable power scopes and especially scopes at or below the price point of the Nikon prostaff.

Jesus, I got on here to ask a simple question, not start a fight. Just calm down and act like adults. Everyone has opinions on whatever so don't get on here starting trouble. Just chill guys.

Same here, one reason I leave my scopes on one magnification (usually the highest for me. just because I'm used to it). The difference can be minor (less than an inch) and not anything like 12 inches at 75 yards.

Most standard eye relief scopes are set to have the least parallax at a hundred yards. Long eye relief scopes at 50 yards. Some are adjustable.

Parallax has something to do with how the target, front lens, rear lens, intermediate or reversal lens/reticule and your eye align. The light in your scope doesn't travel in a straight line anyway, seems counter intuitive but fact. The four (most often) lenses have to align, when you increase magnification some lenses move. The likelihood of the bent light not aligning in exactly the same plane increases. Better people than I have tried to explain this and usually needed a book to do it.

One major variable can be if your are crowding the scope. Most standard rifle scopes are designed for 3 3/4"-4 inch eye relief. Crowding the scope can really magnify the variables. If you see a black ring around your image in the scope you are to close.

Make sure nothing is touching your scope but the rings.

Make sure all your mounting hardware is tight. I've had ring screws come loose before.

The reticle itself is on a separate lens (prism) located where your windage and elevation knobs are located. Not beyond the realm of possibility the reversal lens (turns the image right side up and has the reticle on it) came loose or your elevation and windage hardware came loose. Not uncommon for a dropped or damaged scope. I've seen people do a poor job of mounting a scope and running out of windage or elevation and stripped the threads trying to force the elevation or windage knobs, beyond the end stops.

The worst Ive owned is about 4 inches off with the Bushnell trophy xlt. Ive seen a few that were worse than that but never 12 inches at 75 yards.

Anyway as my original point before the thread was derailed it is very much a problem common enough to check every scope and especially lower and mid range scopes before hunting.

Not fighting, but rather just trying to give correct answers to your problem! If POI moves to any appreciable degree when you change powers on a variable scope there is a problem, no ifs, ands or buts, and it doesn't involve what MC mentioned. I'm talking more than about 1/2 to 1 MOA shift in POI from low to high, so maybe that's where the miscommunication we're having lies. If you have any more than that from the lowest power to the highest power the scope will go then there is an internal problem that needs correction. A 12" shift like you mentioned is absolutely ridiculous and even a $100 cheapo scope shouldn't be off very far as to really even be noticeable. However, the cheaper the scope the more likely you are to have any type of problem with it, especially if it's placed on a big bore rifle with a lot of recoil.

Lets be honest.......the problem here is you flying off the handle like usual instead of having a normal conversation like a normal person and yes a shift in more than 1 MOA is a common problem in a cheapo scope and more of a problem than it should be in $200-$300 scopes.

It shouldn't happen but it does

Me flying off the handle, LOL! The only thing that derailed the thread is you and your obnoxious temper that always has to show if someone says you're wrong about something. Then it's the same old baloney where you go off like a dang little kid with your stupid temper tantrums instead of backing yourself up. If you have a scope that has a 4" POI shift when changing powers like you stated and haven't had the manufacturer take care of the problem then you deserve it and are not the expert you think you are! No scope that's built properly should have more than a MOA shift from low through high power and if it does it needs to be repaired or replaced. Google all you want like you told me too and you'll find out exactly what I'm stating. How many scoped center fire rifles do you own to even be in this conversation when you live in a state where you can't even deer hunt with one?

lol just wow...maybe you should just gather yourself a read through the thread again and see exactly what really happened here.

Not that it really matters but I have about five scoped 22 rifles, a scoped .223 , a scoped .308 , a scoped .444, and 2 bolt action slug guns with scopes.

So I have about 10 guns with scopes. I don't need 100 rifles with scopes but I do actually use the ones I have.

I mean what are you really even talking about? What difference does it make that I can't deer hunt with a rifle? Do you think scopes have this problem more or less if put on rifled shotguns? I guess I don't understand why you think that is relevant.

No, the problem here is and always has been you. I don't care if you disagree and had anybody else disagreed they probably would not have led with "Don't know how you came up with that lame, incorrect statement" <<<<<<<<that is where the problem is right there. Then I would have had a normal conversation with them like normal people do.

You on the other hand are very wrong and very obnoxious about it.


Now you can go ahead and tell me how many more rifles you have and how long you have been hunting and try to project you nonsense on me or you can just spare me because Ive already seen it all in the other 500 arguments you have started on here.

Okay, yes I currently live in Illinois where deer hunting is shotgun/ML only but being older than dirt and hunting all over the country as well as having a large passion for the shooting sports and collecting firearms I do have many many many firearms. Other than my military collectables they all have a use/function and get fired on a regular basis. Now that that useless crap has been typed and out of the way, to the question at hand!

#1) If your firearm has a 12 inch POI shift at 75 yards between focal power shifts then you have a problem. Period, point, plain and simple. Now, the question is, is that problem you or the scope itself? 12" tells me it's more than likely the scope. If you were experiencing this problem at 200+ yards then I would maybe question whether or not you have a "fat" crosshair and you just weren't able to print a fine point on the target and you wandered around it. The older and cheaper scopes a lot of times were made with the crosshair on the second focal point and if you were using mildot then you had to do your drop and windage calculations based on one power because increase/decrease actually magnified/shrunk the mrads so ranging/windage calculations were different. Whole nother topic there, but they would also sometimes experience POI shift at various power levels with those older vari power scopes on the SFP type. Most mid range and above scopes nowadays are based off the first focal plane CH and rarely have this problem.

Your scope, with the Nikoplex ret. has absolutely NOTHING to do with that APP so you were talking to a jerk around BS artist on the phone. Contact customer service, tell them the problem again, and if they try jerking you around again by saying something about some stupid app tell them they are full of crap! Send the scope in for another one. Of course that is AFTER you check your rings and such for torque to make sure when you adjust power you aren't actually physically moving the scope a hair. (happens more than you think).

Ghost,

If you want to get to the bottom of this concern, check the bases & rings to insure they are tight......then follow the procedure above. :wave:

Please post a picture of that target once completed.

Circle each 5 shot group and mark at which power your scope was on for each group (3X, 6X & 9X).

It would be best if done off a bench at 100 yards !

I believe you will find this "exercise" very enlightening........................

Now you two stop bickering back and forth and stop trying to get in the last word. You both are like two little kids. Your insults to each other do nothing but degrade the forum.
Ghost - sight your rifle in using the highest magnification on your scope. Then shoot at 3X and see where your POI is. This is after you have removed your scope and checked the bases for tightness and reinstalled the scope and checked the rings.
Sighting in at the highest setting is recommended by most manufacturers.
If you do this and have a major POI change (greater than 2"-3" which I would attribute to human error) then I would definitely send the scope back. I have Bushnells, Leupolds, Burris and Nikon scopes, all varibles and have never had any give me a significant POI change at any setting.

range report
 

So I finally went to the range today to check the scope out at different magnifications. The fired 3 at 3x and bullseye on each one. Dialed scope to 6x and first 2 dropped 2 to 2.5 inches. The third shot hit just lower than my 3x groups. So I then went to 9x and the shots were way low but all shots were touching. Maybe a 7 to 8 inch drop on the 9x magnification. Nikon emailed me back and they want to repair or replace it.

Glad to hear they are going to take care of the problem. It's too bad some people don't pay enough attention to things like this or figure a shift in POI at the various power settings is normal when they find a situation like you did and don't do something about it! I hope you get satisfaction from Nikon and please by all means let us know what they do and how long it takes them to rectify the problem.

For the record I said it was a common problem not "normal" and it is.

I'm a little kid because I won't sit back while somebody calls my 100% correct statement lame and incorrect? That makes no sense to me at all.

Honestly Ghost I just wanted to know if you can shoot - the only way to know that is "your groups"................. so you did good ! :hail:

No way different power settings on any variable scope should effect
the point of impact (POI) - otherwise it would be useless.

Nikon knows there is something wrong with your scope - Glad to hear that they are going to do the right thing !!!

Again honestly I thought you were going to have trouble putting a circle around your groups - LOL :lolabove:

So now we all know you got a lemon !!!

Sorry Rock but I also have to disagree. I don't know what bad luck you've had with the scopes you've purchased. But I do not see this as a common problem. I've had variable scopes for over 50 years from various manufacturers, including Nikon, and I have never had this issue.
I always sight in at the highest magnification to reduce any sight in errors. I never noticed any change in POI at different settings. But I do have to admit that I either shot animals when I had the scope set at its lowest setting while hunting. And if a long shot presented itself I would crank the scope up to max. I can't recall ever using a mid-magnification setting. Everything I ever shot was at either the lowest or highest.

1st of all notice that there will be no childish actions based on you disagreeing with me because you did so like a normal person.

Anyway its not just my luck. Ive seen it just as often with other peoples scopes. Just had a run in with it a few weeks ago with someone elses scope.

Its is a fact that it happens not just my opinion.

If you have experience with hundreds of low-low/mid quality scopes and never dealt with it you are very lucky.

It seems some took my comment as in "its normal just deal with it" which is not what I meant at all.

What I meant is that it is a common enough problem to check every scope before hunting.

I'm not just making stuff up, Ive seen it on my own scopes and others scopes over the years and you can read about it as well. It is a real problem and should always be checked before hunting.

Also as I stated originally 12" is not common that is way bad but a slight shift in POI with magnification changes are very common and to often changes of 3-4 inches do occur.