Buck rubs in low deer density areas
11-30-2015, 09:00 AM
#1
Fork Horn
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Land of 10,000 Wolves
Posts: 138
Buck rubs in low deer density areas
Where we hunt in Northern Michigan between the severe winters and wolves the deer herd is low.
A popular outdoor magazine claimed 10 deer per square mile,but in my opinion (and many locals) its probably 3-4 deer per square mile.
Now with the background info outta the way here's my question.
With such low deer numbers do the bucks stop rubbing as much and save energy to cover more ground looking for does?
Scouted 8 hrs this fall in mid October in old and new clear cut - hardwood edges and found only 3 rubs. The rubs were at most 1" in diameter.
Nothing compared to the number of rubs I would see 5-10 years ago looking at the same types of areas.
A popular outdoor magazine claimed 10 deer per square mile,but in my opinion (and many locals) its probably 3-4 deer per square mile.
Now with the background info outta the way here's my question.
With such low deer numbers do the bucks stop rubbing as much and save energy to cover more ground looking for does?
Scouted 8 hrs this fall in mid October in old and new clear cut - hardwood edges and found only 3 rubs. The rubs were at most 1" in diameter.
Nothing compared to the number of rubs I would see 5-10 years ago looking at the same types of areas.
11-30-2015, 03:35 PM
#3
Fork Horn
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 123
I hunt an area in Northern Mn. with a low deer population. In 2014 approx. 450 hunters got 47 deer, this in an area of 560 sq. miles and a 16 day season. Several bad winters and resident wolf packs reduced the #'s. Before the bad winters I saw a lot more scrapes and other sign. Last year and this year very few scrapes or rubs. The bucks are still there, trail cams show, but in fewer numbers.
12-01-2015, 03:13 AM
#4
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: MICHIGAN
Posts: 2,568
As a Owner of a UP deer camp I have some not so nice comments about Michigan's DNR and the lies they seem to keep spreading.
I also felt 4 to 6 deer per square mile was about average in the 1990's and up to about 2005.
Figure less deer per square mile means less bucks so that translates into less buck rubs just on that fact. Never mind there sign posting their range, most of the rubs are just a matter of an instinct I feel.
Magazine says!!! How in the world would they know even the DNR has no clue either and have a caned response when asked about the population.
Just look at the wolf comments the DNR makes.
I understand it takes 20 deer a year to feed one wolf. The DNR says there are 600 some odd wolves on the U.P. They've been saying that for five years. I believe the actual number is closer to double that. Lets say, for the sake of argument and simplicity, there are a thousand wolves. That's 20,000 deer a year out of the gene pool.
Al
I also felt 4 to 6 deer per square mile was about average in the 1990's and up to about 2005.
Figure less deer per square mile means less bucks so that translates into less buck rubs just on that fact. Never mind there sign posting their range, most of the rubs are just a matter of an instinct I feel.
Magazine says!!! How in the world would they know even the DNR has no clue either and have a caned response when asked about the population.
Just look at the wolf comments the DNR makes.
I understand it takes 20 deer a year to feed one wolf. The DNR says there are 600 some odd wolves on the U.P. They've been saying that for five years. I believe the actual number is closer to double that. Lets say, for the sake of argument and simplicity, there are a thousand wolves. That's 20,000 deer a year out of the gene pool.
Al
12-01-2015, 08:23 AM
#5
Fork Horn
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Land of 10,000 Wolves
Posts: 138
Alleyooper
Our family camp got started around 1986 in Northern Iron County,Mi.
Watching the rise and fall of the deer herd in that area from the ages of 12 -40 has been an eye opener.
Sadly bumbling around the woods as a teenager I saw more deer than I do nowadays.
Nowadays I pay way more attention to wind,weather,terrain features, moon phases, hunter pressure, etc.
I would agree that the Department of No Results (DNR) has done almost nothing to help the deer herd.
Where I hunt in Ohio rublines can be productive and I used to see bucks both scouting and hunting rublines in the U.P.
Guess I'm just venting the frustration of a favorite tactic that really seems to be losing its effectiveness in my home turf.
Our family camp got started around 1986 in Northern Iron County,Mi.
Watching the rise and fall of the deer herd in that area from the ages of 12 -40 has been an eye opener.
Sadly bumbling around the woods as a teenager I saw more deer than I do nowadays.
Nowadays I pay way more attention to wind,weather,terrain features, moon phases, hunter pressure, etc.
I would agree that the Department of No Results (DNR) has done almost nothing to help the deer herd.
Where I hunt in Ohio rublines can be productive and I used to see bucks both scouting and hunting rublines in the U.P.
Guess I'm just venting the frustration of a favorite tactic that really seems to be losing its effectiveness in my home turf.
12-07-2015, 08:08 PM
#7
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Allegan, MI
Posts: 8,019
What do you guys want the DNR to do to help the deer population in the UP when they have no say over the wolf population? They can do plenty of habitat work to help the deer, but when they can't do anything about the wolf population all they would be doing is feeding more wolves that would be born if there were more deer produced for them to eat. In that country I can guarantee you that the wolf will be a better deer killer than a human!
12-08-2015, 01:15 AM
#8
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: MICHIGAN
Posts: 2,568
First off the DNR can stop lying about the wolf population. Then when there is a season make the price of the tags reasonable in cost so the common average Yooper can afford to buy them. If they set the limit at 100 wolves then let 100 wolves be harvested do not sell 100 tags and stop the hunt at 50 wolves killed.
Wolf tags should not be looked at as a money cow for the state at the price of the UP deer herd.
Also there was
A $40,000 gift from the Safari Club International Foundation to help improve the winter habitat for deer in Michigan's Upper Peninsula
The state Department of natural Resources says the money will help fund a wildlife biologist position that is assigned to develop comprehensive strategies for 57 winter habitat complexes. The focus of the work primarily will be on land that isn't managed by the DNR. that means the 40,000 will pay a wage for said biologist for one year
The Upper Peninsula Habitat Work Group was reconvened this year to focus on improving and conserving critical winter habitat.
I think this is a group to help pi$$ the money away.
Officials recently said Michigan's 2014 deer hunting harvest was down about 15 percent from 2013, due in part to severe winter weather in recent years. Regional declines were the greatest in the Upper Peninsula, where the overall harvest was down nearly 36 percent. Notice no mention of the wolves.
Notice the DNR has gotten their grubby paws on the money. I personally think this will come to nothing as far as improving the herd, health of the herd and the habitat.
I have not seen nor heard a person who has a UP deer camp nor any resident Yooper's that have a good thing to say about the DNR, Wolves and this years deer season to date.
Al
Wolf tags should not be looked at as a money cow for the state at the price of the UP deer herd.
Also there was
A $40,000 gift from the Safari Club International Foundation to help improve the winter habitat for deer in Michigan's Upper Peninsula
The state Department of natural Resources says the money will help fund a wildlife biologist position that is assigned to develop comprehensive strategies for 57 winter habitat complexes. The focus of the work primarily will be on land that isn't managed by the DNR. that means the 40,000 will pay a wage for said biologist for one year
The Upper Peninsula Habitat Work Group was reconvened this year to focus on improving and conserving critical winter habitat.
I think this is a group to help pi$$ the money away.
Officials recently said Michigan's 2014 deer hunting harvest was down about 15 percent from 2013, due in part to severe winter weather in recent years. Regional declines were the greatest in the Upper Peninsula, where the overall harvest was down nearly 36 percent. Notice no mention of the wolves.
Notice the DNR has gotten their grubby paws on the money. I personally think this will come to nothing as far as improving the herd, health of the herd and the habitat.
I have not seen nor heard a person who has a UP deer camp nor any resident Yooper's that have a good thing to say about the DNR, Wolves and this years deer season to date.
Al
Last edited by alleyyooper; 12-08-2015 at 01:18 AM.
12-08-2015, 07:29 AM
#9
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Allegan, MI
Posts: 8,019
Whether the DNR knows exactly how many wolves are in the UP really doesn't mean much in the overall scheme of things since they can't do anything about the situation unless the courts and politics are taken out of the equation. Maybe Congress will pass that Bill taking the courts out of it in the Great Lakes states and Wyoming like they did in Idaho and Montana. Then if it is up to the DNR here in MI the public can put some pressure on them to get the problem under control. Wolf reduction along with a lot of habitat work is needed to bring the deer population back to any extent IMHO.
12-09-2015, 01:32 AM
#10
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: MICHIGAN
Posts: 2,568
All it does saying the wolf population is the same every year for several years in a row is confirm what most people already know.
The DNR has no clue about much of any thing about the UP wild life.
Also In my home area Of Michigan they are to busy with Belle Isle to respond to a RAP call. One year later and I have not seen the DNR person who I was told would respond. I only know about the Belle Isle thing thru a State cop friend who said it is Tricky Ricky's pet project.
Al
The DNR has no clue about much of any thing about the UP wild life.
Also In my home area Of Michigan they are to busy with Belle Isle to respond to a RAP call. One year later and I have not seen the DNR person who I was told would respond. I only know about the Belle Isle thing thru a State cop friend who said it is Tricky Ricky's pet project.
Al