is Camo really necessary?
05-19-2014, 02:08 PM
#23
Spike
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Texas
Posts: 75
Deer do look up, see it all the time. I've actually seen a buck purposely wrap his antlers in some briars while on his hind legs to snatch them down.
They do know when something is out of place on many occassions
I'm a firm believer in the UV theory though. I'm not saying they can't see colors, many berries or poisons in nature are brightly colored.
They do know when something is out of place on many occassions
I'm a firm believer in the UV theory though. I'm not saying they can't see colors, many berries or poisons in nature are brightly colored.
Last edited by Ferguson Outfitters; 05-19-2014 at 02:11 PM.
05-19-2014, 03:45 PM
#24
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Kansas
Posts: 3,905
"UV Theory" is mostly that... A lot of theory...
As a chemical engineer, I worked in the past with renewable resource and biodegradable 'green chemical' replacement products for synthetic UV brightners in laundry detergent. The spectral analytical tools we used to pressure test the products against the brightening agents used in existing commercially available brightening detergents is the same technology used in the "here's the proof" photography for "UV FREE" hunting washes and clothing.
Here's where the theory breaks down
First, recognize that all "color" on Earth is really only a matter of a physical property of the material. The item is not ACTUALLY that color, but rather the atomic or molecular structure of the item REFLECTS a certain spectrum of light and absorbs others, which causes our eye to view it as one specific color.
Therefore, a color can ONLY appear if there is light in its reflective spectrum emitted upon it. In other words, if I shine a red light on a mirror, it can only reflect a red light, never a green, and vice versa. If I shine a UV light on a red shirt, it will show up black, because it cannot reflect the UV light. Anybody remember "blacklights"???
Energy from sunlight comes to Earth emitted in different wavelengths of light. Depending on the study you read, only between 5-10% of the sun's energy is emitted in the UV spectrum, and ONLY UVA and UVB rays reach the surface of the Earth, as the high energy, ultra-short wavelength UVC spectra are completely washed by the Ozone Layer. The majority of UVA makes it to the surface, and only a portion of the UVB penetrates - arguably around 50% of it's total energy. Between 40-50% of the Sun's energy is emitted as "visible light", which is not scrubbed by the Ozone Layer. So if we vaguely assume 7% total UV, broken down into 3rds, kill the UVC, and half of the UVB, that's about 3.5% of the total energy.
Now, there are UV sensitive chemicals, which is what we use in UV brighteners, that reflect UV which help increase the overall reflective energy of a given material. The idea here is that it adds "brightness" to colors by increasing the total light reflected by the object.
So on a relative basis, visible light is somewhere between 5-8x more powerful within the total light spectrum as UV light.
Say it's a red shirt, and reds make up about 10% of the total Visible light spectrum. Assuming 45% visible energy, that's 4.5 units reflected on a red shirt. Add in the UV brightener, which isn't fully visible to the human eye, you gain about another 1-2 "units" of brightness on top of the Red Energy. Boom, brighter shirt.
Tying this all together:
On Earth, which is where most of us hunt deer, the visible light spectrum will always dominate the total light reflected by a given object.
IN LAYMAN'S TERMS - UV intensity is much weaker than Total Light and Visible Light intensities.
Consider this familiar experience: 20-30yrs ago you walked into a college party. The lights were on. You were wearing a black cotton shirt. Your shirt looked black with the lights on. But your buddy flips off the lights and suddenly the room has a blue/purple hue, your teeth look like they are glowing, and your black shirt is COVERED in white flecks. The cotton has natural UV reflectance, so every little fuzzball, pill, or knap on the shirt glows under the blacklight.
When the lights were on, the visible light spectrum dominated the exposed color, so you couldn't even notice the flecks, or your teeth.
THIS IS HOW OUR SUN WORKS. Even in dusk and dawn, Visible Light dominates the color as seen by animals. Some animals can be more sensitive to UV spectra than we are as humans, but deer still have a higher sensitivity to visible light than they do to UV light. THEREFORE, in the presence of visible light, they will see colors based on visible light colors, NOT based on the UV spectra. Colors will be brighter for them than they are for us, because of their higher sensitivity to UV "brighteners", but it's not a dominating light energy.
So no, "UV Theory" is nothing more than misconstrued and ill-applied science. It's like turning on your headlights during the day, nothing more.
As a chemical engineer, I worked in the past with renewable resource and biodegradable 'green chemical' replacement products for synthetic UV brightners in laundry detergent. The spectral analytical tools we used to pressure test the products against the brightening agents used in existing commercially available brightening detergents is the same technology used in the "here's the proof" photography for "UV FREE" hunting washes and clothing.
Here's where the theory breaks down
First, recognize that all "color" on Earth is really only a matter of a physical property of the material. The item is not ACTUALLY that color, but rather the atomic or molecular structure of the item REFLECTS a certain spectrum of light and absorbs others, which causes our eye to view it as one specific color.
Therefore, a color can ONLY appear if there is light in its reflective spectrum emitted upon it. In other words, if I shine a red light on a mirror, it can only reflect a red light, never a green, and vice versa. If I shine a UV light on a red shirt, it will show up black, because it cannot reflect the UV light. Anybody remember "blacklights"???
Energy from sunlight comes to Earth emitted in different wavelengths of light. Depending on the study you read, only between 5-10% of the sun's energy is emitted in the UV spectrum, and ONLY UVA and UVB rays reach the surface of the Earth, as the high energy, ultra-short wavelength UVC spectra are completely washed by the Ozone Layer. The majority of UVA makes it to the surface, and only a portion of the UVB penetrates - arguably around 50% of it's total energy. Between 40-50% of the Sun's energy is emitted as "visible light", which is not scrubbed by the Ozone Layer. So if we vaguely assume 7% total UV, broken down into 3rds, kill the UVC, and half of the UVB, that's about 3.5% of the total energy.
Now, there are UV sensitive chemicals, which is what we use in UV brighteners, that reflect UV which help increase the overall reflective energy of a given material. The idea here is that it adds "brightness" to colors by increasing the total light reflected by the object.
So on a relative basis, visible light is somewhere between 5-8x more powerful within the total light spectrum as UV light.
Say it's a red shirt, and reds make up about 10% of the total Visible light spectrum. Assuming 45% visible energy, that's 4.5 units reflected on a red shirt. Add in the UV brightener, which isn't fully visible to the human eye, you gain about another 1-2 "units" of brightness on top of the Red Energy. Boom, brighter shirt.
Tying this all together:
On Earth, which is where most of us hunt deer, the visible light spectrum will always dominate the total light reflected by a given object.
IN LAYMAN'S TERMS - UV intensity is much weaker than Total Light and Visible Light intensities.
Consider this familiar experience: 20-30yrs ago you walked into a college party. The lights were on. You were wearing a black cotton shirt. Your shirt looked black with the lights on. But your buddy flips off the lights and suddenly the room has a blue/purple hue, your teeth look like they are glowing, and your black shirt is COVERED in white flecks. The cotton has natural UV reflectance, so every little fuzzball, pill, or knap on the shirt glows under the blacklight.
When the lights were on, the visible light spectrum dominated the exposed color, so you couldn't even notice the flecks, or your teeth.
THIS IS HOW OUR SUN WORKS. Even in dusk and dawn, Visible Light dominates the color as seen by animals. Some animals can be more sensitive to UV spectra than we are as humans, but deer still have a higher sensitivity to visible light than they do to UV light. THEREFORE, in the presence of visible light, they will see colors based on visible light colors, NOT based on the UV spectra. Colors will be brighter for them than they are for us, because of their higher sensitivity to UV "brighteners", but it's not a dominating light energy.
So no, "UV Theory" is nothing more than misconstrued and ill-applied science. It's like turning on your headlights during the day, nothing more.
05-19-2014, 05:18 PM
#25
Spike
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Texas
Posts: 75
Does UV light come in different wavelengths? Does nature seem to reflect certain wavelengths? Whats the first color to lose color in low light? Whats the last color to lose color?
Hey, I just fiddle with these things I read because thats what I do, all day, everyday. It is about reflected light.
My wonderment of the current subject started forty years ago when I took note that bubba in his worn out denim overalls killed more deer in similar conditions than the fella sporting the new camo clothes.
With that said and all the theories, I can place an old leather buckskin jacket, brand new camo, and sun bleached camo at thirty yard intervals with a pile of corn next to them, and I can tell you the ones they avoid. Thats saying a lot for Texas deer because they are corn freaks.
I take what I learn to other places.
Hey, I just fiddle with these things I read because thats what I do, all day, everyday. It is about reflected light.
My wonderment of the current subject started forty years ago when I took note that bubba in his worn out denim overalls killed more deer in similar conditions than the fella sporting the new camo clothes.
With that said and all the theories, I can place an old leather buckskin jacket, brand new camo, and sun bleached camo at thirty yard intervals with a pile of corn next to them, and I can tell you the ones they avoid. Thats saying a lot for Texas deer because they are corn freaks.
I take what I learn to other places.
Last edited by Ferguson Outfitters; 05-19-2014 at 05:25 PM.
05-20-2014, 04:57 AM
#27
Typical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Northern WI
Posts: 853
Does UV light come in different wavelengths? Does nature seem to reflect certain wavelengths? Whats the first color to lose color in low light? Whats the last color to lose color?
Hey, I just fiddle with these things I read because thats what I do, all day, everyday. It is about reflected light.
My wonderment of the current subject started forty years ago when I took note that bubba in his worn out denim overalls killed more deer in similar conditions than the fella sporting the new camo clothes.
With that said and all the theories, I can place an old leather buckskin jacket, brand new camo, and sun bleached camo at thirty yard intervals with a pile of corn next to them, and I can tell you the ones they avoid. Thats saying a lot for Texas deer because they are corn freaks.
I take what I learn to other places.
Hey, I just fiddle with these things I read because thats what I do, all day, everyday. It is about reflected light.
My wonderment of the current subject started forty years ago when I took note that bubba in his worn out denim overalls killed more deer in similar conditions than the fella sporting the new camo clothes.
With that said and all the theories, I can place an old leather buckskin jacket, brand new camo, and sun bleached camo at thirty yard intervals with a pile of corn next to them, and I can tell you the ones they avoid. Thats saying a lot for Texas deer because they are corn freaks.
I take what I learn to other places.
05-20-2014, 10:00 AM
#28
Spike
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Middleburg
Posts: 36
I can tell you that my Grandfather never owned anything camo, used regular soap, shampoo and deodorant. If the truck needed fuel he stopped and put it in, never hunted off the ground. Never owned a gps or a range finder or even a scope come to think of it. He was still one of the best hunters I have ever known in his kacky Dickey’s work pants and shirt and Resist all 4 x rancher.
A lot of things can help you to be successful but none more than skill.
A lot of things can help you to be successful but none more than skill.
05-20-2014, 01:21 PM
#29
Spike
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Texas
Posts: 75
MZS,
I guess I misused the word "avoid" considering these billy goats. Texas deer are going to eat the corn, just a matter of when. They didn't "avoid" it, but were the most hesitant and suspicious leaving it for very last. Stomping and blowing for a while before eating and only after the first year deer went in first.
About the worst one I tried was a Nylon Shelled Gortex jacket
I guess I misused the word "avoid" considering these billy goats. Texas deer are going to eat the corn, just a matter of when. They didn't "avoid" it, but were the most hesitant and suspicious leaving it for very last. Stomping and blowing for a while before eating and only after the first year deer went in first.
About the worst one I tried was a Nylon Shelled Gortex jacket
Last edited by Ferguson Outfitters; 05-20-2014 at 01:30 PM.
05-20-2014, 03:01 PM
#30
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Onslow County, NC
Posts: 1,856
I wear camo, it costs about the same amount as any other clothes out there unless you buy into the scent control clothing. Primary reason I wear camo is not for the deer but for the other animals that can also alert the deer. Camo has saved me from spooking turkeys, squirrels, yotes. Each one of them especially squirrels are capable of putting deer on high alert and so my primary objective is to not alert deer, by any means.
Now one of my thoughts about the natural colors like a nature photographer, or even regular work clothes is i dont think deer associate them with hunting. Have been out many times outside of season and deer just dont seem to care about me. But as soon as they see you in camo or fatigues during deer season they are quick to take off. Have been in the field here on base with a group of Marines sleeping in their hummers and deer even walked right between the trucks in the dark not caring at all.
Now one of my thoughts about the natural colors like a nature photographer, or even regular work clothes is i dont think deer associate them with hunting. Have been out many times outside of season and deer just dont seem to care about me. But as soon as they see you in camo or fatigues during deer season they are quick to take off. Have been in the field here on base with a group of Marines sleeping in their hummers and deer even walked right between the trucks in the dark not caring at all.