Touchy subject
 

I know it will be a touchy subject but I don't really care at this point. It's gone WAY TO FAR. 75 hunters of the Chippewa Band of Native Americans were ready to take the woods LAST NIGHT.. Yup, they have gotten the o.k. to hunt deer at night in the woods of Northern Wisconsin... This is an outrage to me. Absolutely ridiculous.. When will it stop. I can go on and on about what I believe should be right and wrong, but this is just stupid. What happened to the " always know whats beyond your target " rule of hunting. It's been a long time since I have gone through hunter safety but it was drilled into my head before hunter safety and after hunter safety by my father and grandfather and now I drill it into the heads of the young/new hunters that I am in contact with. This is a JOKE.... Take,take,take,take,take..... That's all its about these days to the "native" American Indian.... Let the fire works begin........

If they want to do it as a tradition way of hunting then Hickory bows and flint arrow heads and only on private land. If that how it is done then i have no problem. You can't complain that you want to hunt at night to get back to the ways of your anchestors and then go out with a mag lite and .30-06.

their people were here 1st. who are you to tell them what they can and cannot do? where is this article at? why are you so upset? not like you or yours will be out there at night anyway?

It's on the news. WEAU.COM... It bothers me that people constantly take advantage of the system and that's what is happening here. I wouldn't have a problem with it if they were on there own land and didn't do it on public land but no, that's not what most of them will do.. They will go on public land with spot lights, rifles, out of there trucks etc etc. I realize times have changed and they have guns, spotlights, trucks, bass boats that they spear from, I don't expect them to go out in birch bark canoes and use torches, I would however expect common sense to be a part of the " rituals " of the Native American tribes. I know it's not every Native American and have no problem with them being able to gun hunt for 4 months out of the year (when I can gun hunt for 9 days) have unlimited buck tags (when I get 2 a year) Get a bear tag every year (when I get one every 5-7 years) get multiple fisher tags every year ( when I get one every couple) Get to take by spearing hundreds of walleyes in the spring out of the lakes that aren't even open to me to fishing for walleyes until after the spawn because "we" are trying to protect the walleye numbers and when the season is open the size and bag limits are ridiculous, etc etc etc yup I guess I do have a problem with it......

If the state is going to make it legal to hunt at night or change in other laws for that matter do it all across the board. Not just for one group of people. I totally understand why pyclub is coming from. This is an accident waiting to happen.

sometimes you have to get over yourself and realize the ultimate price these peoples ancestors have paid....maybe if someone came in and killed almost all of yer ancestors off, killed all the animals and destroyed the land where your people once thrived, you might feel different. the fact you even get a tag every 7 years is a plus. just try and be thankful that our ancestors killed off as many native americans as possible...destroyed and killed all the wild buffalo just for fun...so you could get a tag every 7 years :confused0024:
doesnt sound all that awesome does it?

he is just worried about himself..puhhhleeze, ya saw his last post..they get all this, and i only get that

So, I guess now we have to make special exceptions for all groups of people who had ancestors killed off?! WAKE UP AMERICA!!

The issues of traditional access and unlimited access are very often confused. I see the very similar things with gathering rights for indigenous Pacific islanders. Toss in the issue of the technology usedj to harvest the resources, and now you have a discussion.

Fishing with a single hand braided coconut fiber line and a carved bone hook does not equal the fishing poweer of a 300yd monofilament gillnet.

Unlimited access with the most modern technology does not work as a model for conservation, for anything; fish, deer, fowl, trees.

agreed 100%

just try and imagine halfbaked came into yer house, killed your whole family, threw em all in a pile like trash and burned them... then he says he discovered your house and its now his. that was your ancestors. i would ask how ya feel now, but some people cant even fathom such things, which is where i think you would be... the truth hurts. its an awful thing that will never be changed, cause its history.

What does any of that have to do with hunting at night with modern technology? Your right that's terrible what THEY did, when that was going on my family was milking cows in Germany, so stop trying the guilt train. But that has little to do with people wanting to perform traditional hunting practices with modern equiptment... it just doesn't make sense. It's like the Tribe that is still allowed to hunt hump back whales using fully automatic weapons and sonar to catch them, at that point what is traditional about it anyway?

Night hunting is practised throughout the world, with the use of modern firearms, optics, lighting. European boar hunts are legal in several countries at night. Coyotes are routinely hunted at night in my state, as are raccoons.

The safety risks are more difficult to mediate, but there are tools available for night hunting.

I prefer to sleep when it is dark, but then 5-6 hours is about all I can take and I am up and about.

The thing people often forget about "traditional hunting practices" and using modern technology is that in the old days, a loto of animals were wasted because the methods for killing them weren't that effectice (or at least AS effective as what we have today).

As an example, several years ago the Makah tribe in Washington state was allowed to go on a traditional whale hunt and take up to 5 whales. People went out of their minds when they realized that after harpooning the whale and before towing it to shore, they would finish it off with a high-powered rifle. But what people overlooked was the fact that in ancient times, they would lose 5-10 whales after they harpooned them for every one they were able to successfully get to shore - because they managed to get away even while wounded or sank.

I think the exercise of traditional hunting rights among natives has more to do with the meaningfulness of actually doing it (i.e. together, as a family or tribe, with support of their community, etc.) than what you "get" out of it in the end. I think a lot of times when we - as non-natives - criticize it - we're looking at it from the "he-gets-to-harvest-an-extra-X-and-I-don't" attitude. And that's not really the point of traditional hunts, anyway.

The Makah tribe was all about whaling, had historically been whalers, and had a culture and language designed around whales and whaling activities, so the fact that they actually killed a whale paled in comparison to what it meant to the tribe to be able simply have a whale hunt, get people involved in it, etc.

Just my 2 cents.

You got that right it was their ANCESTORS who suffered not these people. Do we let the Germans do anything they want because they were defeated. Better yet let's let the Greeks and Romans have public orgies as that is what they did before they were defeated. Oh yea and let us have human sacrifices as that is what many of the African and Caribean people used to do also. Where do you draw the line? Or should we let the ***anese still imprisoned thousands of people? I guess we can let them all do what they want no matter what the LAWS are. Sore Losers ! Bleeding heart liberals !!

Guess what the Indians were DEFEATED that means they were beaten by someone that was stronger than they were or had better equipment. Time to realize that when you are DEFEATED you lose. When you do not win you do not reap any benefits of those who did. Sorry but that is life in a nutshell. If they wanted to save all those things they should have fought harder and developed better

You may want to check your history before you start thumping your chest about how we're such a better civilization than others.

Our 200+ year-old civilization is still infantile compared to the 1300+ years that the Roman Empire was in existence. They built roads, aqueducts, conquered much of the known planet at the time, and were truly advanced for that age. The Greeks (800 years or so) had innumerable advances in art, mathematics, science, literature, and politics (ever hear of "democracy?").

"Bleeding heart liberals?" I don't see anything wrong with giving a sh&^ about other people or cultures. Please explain how that's such a huge problem?

Its history and thats it. Things like this haven't been done in many years. These so called native INDIANS are not living in Teepees anymore nor are they being subject to the practices that were done by our ancestors. All they are doing is collecting from something horrible that happened how many years ago.?. Enough is a enough... I am truely sorry for what happened to there ancestors, however how long do we have to kiss there A$$. There are alot of other groups of people in this world that have suffered in history but I dont see them collecting in on these On-going benefits. I also think there ancestors would be sick to see traditional hunts being done with modern weapons.

I dont have a big post count like HalfBaked I mostly just come on here a read, but I read enough to personally in my opinion think that HalfBaked is an idiot. This is America. We are all equal. So we should all be held to the same standards.

Heck no it's not a touchy subject. If they want to do it on the res let them do it. If I can't do it on public land then they can't either even though they already do. I have a feeling this is going to turn into the spearing protests back in the 80's. It could turn ugly but I would hope most choose to stay out of it. There isn't any deer in WI anyway. I just believe we all should follow the same laws. thats it.

I am half Cherokee American Indian and I can't believe some things people are saying on this forum. I could say so many things and get everybody pissed off,but Im going to watch my tongue.I think your talking about the wrong nationality on most of this. We aren't the ones that think everyone should get everything for free. Do I think it's fair to let some people hunt at night and others not,nope. I don't and I don't think anybody else should either.
As far as rights go,I do believe the American Indian was here way before anybody else. My grandparents escaped off the reservation when they were 15 to get married and to get out of poverty. My family doesn't believe in getting checks from the government. We don't sign up for that,although it's out there . That's their own choice. I don't think being lied to and tricked was defeat. I think it was more of trusting the wrong people. The same people that they helped survive turned their backs on them. Am I bitter?Nope, not one bit. That's the way God has it written down.
I will get off my soap box now and move on. Life is too short to be bitter. I don't have time for that anyway!

Halfbaked I would have to disagree with you. It was not my ancestors they came over in the early 1900's. Don't quote me but I would have to say most of us fall in that same category.

Take advantage of the system? Are you freaking kidding me! The white man came to America, lied to them, killed them, raped their women and took their land. Not to mention the diseases that they were given. They deserve so much more than they are given and no one should have any complaints about it.

Here is a question for ya....
Were the jewish lied to when they were brought to the Camp??...Just to be killed. Its pretty much the same aspect in a sense. I dont see them getting special attention for that horrible act.

At least HalfBaked wont be alone on idiot island, supflav can join him.:wave:

I agree, i don't think it should be allowed. and as far as what happened way back then, well it had nothing to do with me, my father, my grandpa or great granpa. So no, I don't feel bad about it. it happened well get over it.

You want tragic, lets get a little more recent. There are people alive today that were in concentration camps waiting to be killed. 53,000 americans were killed in vietnam, 10 years of servicemen and women getting killed in the iraq and afganistan. corrupt govt and corporate greed.

sorry, it was 200 years ago. I am not going to apologize for what happened to the indians or with slavery, had nothing to do with me. I don't agree with how people were treated but there is nothing I could do to stop it.

Its time everyone just fall under the same rules as everyone else. I believe the time has come.

The company I work for and have been for 20 years, just took away medical ben. for retirees, half my retirement got wiped out, and no raises for the last 5 years. When will my special treatment come in.

Excellent post I couldnt agree more WNYhunter....

I was always taught that fairness was one of the things that america was founded on. I hardly see anything fair here. I had nothing to do with things that happend 200 years ago. Matter of fact no one alive did. So why should we have unfairness because of it. I could go on and on about groups that don't pay income or property taxes because of their beliefs. My uncle was at Chosin in Korea. Shot through both hips,had the hospital plane shot down that he was on,watched wounded soldiers slaughtered by the chinese. He never got any special treatment. I agree the time has come.

Simply exercising what was in the treaty the US government agreed to when both sides signed. No special treatment has been added - the government is for once keeping their word.

yea well, when I signd on to work here you needed 85 points (age + years of service) to retire at 100% with medical for you and spouse along with a death beneifit. Then they changed it to 85 points but you had to 60 years old to get it. Then they took away spousal benefits. Now they just took away my benefits when I retire.

So you know what, things change. Tough. Mabey its time to just throw out those treaties because none of the people that were screwed over are alive to complain about it. As far as I am concerened, indians have a choice, live on the rez and get the handouts or leace and do it yourself like alot of other people do. One thing is for sure, I dont have a rez to fall back on.

Sometimes you're the windshield, sometimes the bug, and 90% of that luck comes with where and into what family you were born. We all get 'special treatment', mostly meh, alot bad.

The only thing we are all guaranteed from birth is death. Accept that fact and get on with enjoying your life.

Yes Terrible things happened to native americans, blacks and whoever else stood in the early americans way but face it.... all those people now live in the greatest country in the world. If you don't like let me know and I will personally buy you a one way ticket anywhere else

"the ultimate price these peoples ancestors have paid ...."
Really.
How about the price MY ANCESTORS PAID TO KEEP THEM FREE !?
History says they got screwed...........true.
History also says.........every country ever over run, occupied and kept in war isn't right, but it happens. Just so happens they had buffalo.
NO different then Hitler tearing up Europe. Differnce is.....Europeans got on with life, and don't get everything for free because of the "other white men" the Germans.
I too think the Indians got screwed, but you can't change that. Isn't free hunting licenses, and no taxes enough !? Sounds good to me !
:violin:

That is so freakin' hilarious on every level, I don't know where to begin. So I guess I won't!

jmartin1, I just want to say that it isn't every Native American that is doing this and I know that. I have 2 buddy's, they are brothers, they are both native American, they growing up and in high school, hated the fact that people were spearing the walleyes and doing a lot of the things they did, I completely understand the rituals and there are some that hang on to there heritage and I have no problem with them. It's the one's like the 2 brothers that I know, who now, when Ice fishing put out unlimited tip ups, because they can, started trapping a couple years ago because they can get a bunch of tags and trap just to do it, when both of them are union plumbers and make between 70-90 thousand a year and aren't doing any of this to help feed there families or make a extra income to help clothe themselves and there families. My problem lies with those who do it because they can and have no real tradition other than the fact that they are 1/32nd native American, they have no real respect for the fact that there ancestors got the privilege to do this to feed there families and survive and yes, there land was taken from them and there way of life. Seems to me that they have adapted pretty well and yet want the rights to do what they 120 years ago but use the adapted way of life to do it..

LOOK BUDDY, IF YOU NEED TO MAKE FUN OF ME TO MAKE YOURSELF FEEL BETTER OR LOOK GOOD, LET IT OUT...GO AHEAD, I DONT MIND. YOU ARE BIG, I AM LITTLE, YOU ARE GREAT AND I AM NOT. ALL HALE DEERNMUSKY :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail:

there ya go buddy, cry it out...poor guy

true, i agree...hunting at night not a big deal right?

We all have different opinions on different subjects, luckily we live in a free country where we can express our opinions and beliefs without being arrested or persecuted for our beliefs and or our opinions and we can thank god for that and thank the lord Jesus for the ultimate price that was ever paid, and that price was paid for all who are willing to accept the gift of Salvation... When I think of the price that all of the people in the world have paid and the reason it was paid, none were so great as the price paid on the cross at Calvary...

AMEN! Praise Jesus!

I have to agree I do not like hunting at night

but then this was ALL their land and they got totally screwed, but being part native american maybe I have a different view

No excuses for the way the Natives were treated, most of those men back in those days were nothing more then scum, they treated everything, animals, women and anyone different like dirt.

They choose to live on the res., collect welfare, DRINK THEMSELVES SILLY, collect funds from all the casinos that stupid "AMERICAN" citizens support, Where does self responsibility come in? In AMERICA we can choose our future by making choices.

They choose to be a separate "Nation". They can't have it both ways.

I SAY BIRCH BARK CANOES, CANDLE LITE, STICKS WITH A SHARP POINT AND STICK BOWS AND ARROWS! :party0005:

Macmann99 I don't know about you, but I am native. The definition of Native is "belonging to a particular place by birth." I was born in Ohio in 1974, Can I hunt at night please?