DocD

You are probably correct, Maybe I should keep my ideas to myself, after all I don't live or hunt in Kansas, the OP's lists his location as Ga.
so I don't know why he would be interested in the laws of Kansas other than to expand his idea of hunting for profit. I stand by my words, if you want to hunt, learn how, tracking game is part of hunting. As sportpeople we have an obligation to protect the sport & that includes making it ethical, why not shine deer? run them down with snowmobiles.
As far as dogs on a leach, just how far do you think that will go? if everybody was on the same page it would be different, but I know a lot of people that don't take responsibly for their dogs.

When I said "it can't be good" I was referring to the people of Kansas (I don't hunt in Kansas)
I am not sure how that could have been taken in other way

In my opinion crossbows should only be allowed for disabled people,
that is just my opinion, & if states change their laws that is fine, ( I then might purchase a crossbow) but hunting with dogs is just plain wrong!! Maybe in states that have these huge swamps tracking dogs could be considered a necessity. but in Kansas??? Kansas is a Great state, & I just can't imanage them passing a law like this

It would seem from your opening statement that if one dosn't agree with you, That you don't want them to say anything, well I don't agree with you. Just because I don't agree with you I still respect your opinion, i just don't agree with it. I think you should respect mine. Doc

wildlands

Doc, yes I am from Ga but my luv for tracking dogs and for what they can do knows no bounderies. To the point that I am one of the founding board members of UBT a none profit organization that sole purspose it the education and instruction of others in the use of tracking dogs, along with providng assistance to those who wish to get tracking dogs legalized in thier state.

Just a few facts about the use of tracking dogs here in Ga.

Here is an informal poll I did of trackers in Ga

During the 2007 hunting season, GON’s list of tracking dogs was about 50. I was able to contact 36 of these people during the off season to see what type of dog they were using and get some information on how their season went. There were many different breeds of dogs being used. The number 1 breed was the Bloodhound, followed by mixed breeds, labs, Bavarian Mountain hounds, Beagles, Mt. Cur, and Basset hounds. Then, at least one each of Rat Terrier, Boykin Spaniel, Pit bull, Black and Tan, Blue Tick, German short-hair pointer, and one German Shepherd.
Number of calls taken
Tracking dogs are used to differing extents across the state. Just by the figures that I collected, it is obvious that the QDMA counties are putting the tracking dogs to work more often looking for the big bucks. Bucks made up over 90% of the calls taken by trackers. We had one tracker take over 100 calls this year and 5 that got 1 or no calls. The top 6 trackers across the state tracked 380 of the 716 deer tracked for an average of 53 deer apiece. The overall average for all trackers was just over 21 deer per tracker.


Deer Recovery
Of those 716 deer tracked for hunters across our state, 357 were recovered. That comes out to just under a 50% recovery rate.

Here are some stats that we take from the UBT members.
2011 results
Total States: 24
Number of Trackers: 41
Total Calls Recieved: 708
Total Calls Taken: 609
Total Animals Recovered: 307
Success Rate: 50.41
Total Animals Recovered Alive: 92
Percent Recoverd Alive: 29.97
Total Animals Tracked: 588
- Bears: 4
- Elk: 4
- Exotics: 0
- Hogs: 10
- Moose: 2
- Mule Deer: 1
- Whitetail Deer: 565
- Other: 2
Track Distances:
- Under 200 yards: 101
- Between 200-500 yards: 99
- Between 500-1000 yards: 54
- Average: 487.01
- Longest Track 3000
- Average Longest Track 239.00

2 yr average
Total States: 29
Number of Trackers: 41.0000
Total Calls Recieved: 842.5000
Total Calls Taken: 635.0000
Total Animals Recovered: 318.5000
Success Rate: 50.16
Total Animals Recovered Alive: 91.5000
Percent Recoverd Alive: 28.73
Total Animals Tracked: 633.5
- Bears: 8.5000
- Elk: 2.0000
- Exotics: 0.0000
- Hogs: 8.0000
- Moose: 1.5000
- Mule Deer: 0.5000
- Whitetail Deer: 611.0000
- Other: 2.0000
Track Distances:
- Under 200 yards: 128.0000
- Between 200-500 yards: 108.0000
- Between 500-1000 yards: 59.5000
- Average: 470.73
- Longest Track 4500
- Average Longest Track 237.00

As you can see it looks like the average is going to be about a 50% recovery. There are many reason why that numbers is lower than most would think. Just like I count all tracks that end at property liines as no finds even if I think the animal could have been recovered if we would have had permission to continue, those go in my total numbers for the year. The animal will survive the shot or even a miss.

There are some trackers that have better that 50% recovery and some with less. Some guys only take a few calls while others will be north of 120 calls a year.

Hudge swamps do not mean a thing. Very few of my calls are in the swamp. Most are in pine straw or pastures/ cut hay fields with very short grass.

Doc, I thank you for posting your opinions in this thread, but I can insure you that my intrest in tracking dogs in Kansas will have no monetary value to me and that I am just forwarding the info so that hunters can choose. I think that those that keep an open mind and do the research will see that the use of a leashed tracking dog is a win win for both the hunter and the game animals that we all love to pursue.

Kansas is not the only state currenlty looking at adopting rules to allow the use of tracking dogs, so is Iowa and Pennsylvania and rummor of a few others but not confirmed as of now.

Ken

kswild

This is the same sterotypical nonsense we ALWAYS hear! I have lived and hunted in Kansas 50 + years and I can tell you there IS a need for tracking dogs here! After spending 6 hours on your hands and knees looking for blood sign and coming up with none after 100 yrds, then doing criss cross searches for the next mile or 5 along the creek bottoms for the next 6 hours you find out pretty quick a tracking dog would be the perfect tool to help you recover your animal!
As for the the crossbow as a weapon of choice for all archery hunters... it to is just another tool. I can't think of one reason it should not be allowed for all archery hunters. Common sense should win the day on these and other questions put to the Kansas hunting public. We wouldn't have it any other way!
Live it up! Deerwoods Doug

DocD

I hear ya!!! years ago I spent a good part of my hunting season tracking a doe, I didn't find it the first day, but I did the next. That was probley close to 40 years ago. I said at that time "Never again"
since then I do not take shot I am not sure of. In the last 40 years I have rarely had to shot twice. using dogs would just encourage people to take a bad shot. Tracking is part of the hunt. Your description of tracking your deer is very interesting (& I mean that) very descriptive.
I enjoy reading recounts of peoples hunts, it about memories, that is a hunt you will not soon forget, one to tell your kids or Grandkids. a heck of a lot better than saying "I put the dogs on it"

I guess I am just "old school" & don't believe everything should be "easy" I think somethings the reward comes with the challenge. As to your comment on crossbows, I don't agree, BUT if they were legal where I hunt I would purchase one. However I would never use a dog, it is just (to me) unethical. (have you ever seen a deer that has been run down by dogs?, thats why we shot them) sometimes deer are lost, they win! it happens, is it a waste no, nature reclaims. I want you to know I have read your posts carefully & respect everything you wrote. You live in Kansas, I don't, so I should keep my nose out of your business, but this is an open forum so I thought I would comment. & that is all it was, A comment. I hope you get what you want, but I don't think the sportspeople of Kansas is going to allow it. There are some real trophy deer taken out of Kansas every year, I wouldn't think they would want to mess that up, you put dogs into hunting equation & it really questions on how deer were taken, Hunting is a great American tradition, & tracking is a big part of the hunt. again jmop
Doc

kswild

Doc, I couldn't disagree more. You keep referring to hunting with dogs...This is not what this topic is about. It's about tracking a wounded animal AFTER it has been shot! It is about doing all you can possiablly do to RECOVER that wounded animal. It's nothing like "I put the dogs on it" ( your quote) I can't help but think you are missing the point.

I never said you should "keep your nose out of my business" ( another of your quotes) Some other posters on this thread stated you should research before you speak! I myself love to have these conversations because these things need to be said on topics such as this. We can discuss it like civilized people and show people that although we disagree we still respect we others opinions... which I do! It is great talking with you my hunting freind.
Live it up! Deerwoods Doug

DocD

Thanks I have enjoy our talk also, we just disagree & have kept it civil,
I apologize, I didn't mean to imply you said to "keep your nose out of my business" I was really saying it about myself, I think the people of Kansas know what is best for Kansas.(they don't need me) maybe we will talk again on some other topic, My best to you. I did enjoy your description of tracking that deer, some pretty good writing, but you left me hanging---did you recover the deer? Doc

kswild

Doc here is the rest of the story. I bow shot this buck at 17yrds on a beautiful clear warm day in Oct. I was in my ladder stand 16 ft off the ground. It was an easy shot about 8am. The buck was walking by my stand coming toward me. At 17 I said "Baaaaa" he stopped and I let the arrow fly. He immediatly jumped a small creek and I saw the arrow break off. He had 18 inches of arrow in him.

I watched him till I couldn't see him any longer 100yrds and he disappeared. I got down went to where the arrow broke off which was about 20 yrds from my stand. I started looking for blood and found none. Not at the impact sight, not where the arrow broke off..... none, no blood. I did find 2 drops about 50 yrds from the shot. So on my hands and knees for the next 6 hours and found nothing.

Got my wife and we search for about 8 hours the next day and found nothing. This an area I have hunted for years and I know it like the back of my hand. No dead deer any where and I know it was a good solid hit. I give up after 3 days searching. During the season I process deer mostly for out of state hunters. They need it processed before they take it home.

Well about 3 weeks after I bow shot this deer rifle season started and these hunters brought me a deer they had shot. They said this deer had been bow shot. So I looked at the deer and it was the same deer I had bow shot 3 weeks eariler. He survived the shot a was killed during rifle season 7 miles from where I had bow shot him. It was a nice 9 point and the hit was high in the back and stuck in the other shoulder. That's why there was little to no blood. A tracking dog could very well helped me find that deer, because I believe he bedded down within 200 or 300 yrds.
Live it up! Deerwoods Doug

DocD

Just Great, I hope you are keeping a diary, we did for years when I hunted the north. I lost interest (just didn't do it) the last few years & I am regreting it. Doc

zmax hunter

Cross bows should be called cross guns. they have no place in the archery season. It is basically a gun, held like a gun cocked and loaded. nearly all have scopes on them,..there is currently a season from crossbows which is during the Kansas Rifle Season! and currently, kansas allows xbows to be used by anyone wth a disability permit during the Archery Season. This push to put xbows into the Archery Season is not good. it is being pushed almost entirely by xbow manufatures. they are going around , state to state, trying to change these laws, with some success.

Its really simple, if you want to use a xbow, call your doctor, tell him your shoulder hurts and you cant draw your bow, he will write you a disability and send it to the state,..

crossbows are not and should never be considered an archery weapon

kswild

Total Nonsense! More sterotypical BS. A crossbow is a bow with a stock that shoots arrows. Call it what you want. This has been a decades long debate.
We will never see eye to eye on this subject. I don't try to get people to see things my way because I really don't care what anybody else thinks.
You have the right to your opinion and I respect it. If your out there hunting legally I could care less what you use as long as it's legal. If you don't want to hunt with a crossbow don't, but why should YOU tell someone else they can't?
Live it up! Deerwoods Doug