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Buckshot effectiveness
if im using 12 ga, 00, 3in, buckshot out of a 28" 870 barrel, what will my effective killing range be for a full and/or a superfull choke? im going to pattern it in a few days, but i would like an idea of where to start.
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Buckshot should never be used beyond 40 yards max, and they really start losing steam beyond 30 yards. A lot of guys will tell you that they killed deer at 60 or 70 yards, but for every deer killed many more are wounded. One 00 Buckshot pellet at 40 yards has the energy equivalent of a .22 long rifle bullet, make sure that your pattern is still dense enough at that range to hit him with at least half a dozen pellets.
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50 max if you were using a slug sight it in at 100 but buckshot Very utmost would be 50
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First off, full and super full will cause horrible patterns. Modified will probably produce best. Second, its about the most ineffective setup one can use. I have been on two hunts with it. And I won't use it again.
They use it alot here in MD for sika deer hunting in the swamps. Kinda like jump hunting. I was with a group who all vollied 3 rounds at a sika at 35 yards, and I happen to be using sluggers and took it down. |
Only shotgun slugs can be used here in Illlinois so buckshot isnt an option for us. However, I've talked and chatted with folks from different states that have used it and it sounds like about 40 yards is MAX with even the best grouping buckshot and chokes.
As mentioned above, their are MUCH better options to use than Buckshot. If I were limited to shotgun only (if I couldn't use my muzzleloader) I would most certainly opt for a SLUG... they are awesomely devastating to any deer they strike! |
I like a full choke in my Stoeger 2000 with 3'' 00 buck.It'll keep 10-12 pellets in a 12'' circle,thats goodenough for me,at 40 yards.
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The best advice is don't use buckshot. Go with a slug or get a rifle. Very ineffective.
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that_guy,
Hello there. I am curiuos as to why you are opting or considering the use of buckshot? Did someone tell you that's what to use in your situation? If so, what "is" your situation? Did you expect to be taking running shots, like in a drive? Will you be hunting in thick brush? I'm not getting at anything nor do I have any special reasons I'm asking except to know. Thanks, iSnipe |
In the lower part of the state in SC, buckshot is used quite allot in driving deer out of thickest into feilds. The most common step up i have seen is a shotgun shooting mod chk...3 1/2 in magnum with 000 buck. I have seen it DRT deer at 40 yards but i wouldnt shoot much farther than that. I have seen it kill deer out to 75 yards but it wasnt pretty..the deer was more or less hobbled or wounded and had to be shot again. i would keep it under 50yards.
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My son uses a 20 gauge 870 with 3" #2 buck and I limit his shots to 40 yards. He has dropped 3 of the five deer he has killed in the past 2 years in their tracks and 2 others went less then 100 yards, the 2 bucks we had to track and the 3 does fell when he pulled on them. Wolfman who makes the 3 1/2 000, I have not ever seen 000, only the Nitro and they are over $100 for 25 shells.
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iSnipe,
i was opting for a deer drive set up. i own a mossberg 695 with a 2-7x nikon prostaff scope that i shoot hornady sst 12ga slugs out of when im hunting by myself, but a couple buddies want to drive some property and im going to consider the buckshot option. were going to be all over the northern part of NJ and i just wanted to be prepared for any situation that could happen. if the deer was running, i would rather have the multiple pellets with the 00 |
Chek out the tri-ball here- http://www.dixieslugs.com/products.html
I haven't used it yet, but I have heard some positive reports on them. |
My mistake..i called one of the guys up and they use 00 3 1/2 inch winchester super x...i still swear i remeber some guys having 3 1/2 ich 000 buck...maby its was 3 in 000. I know i have seen 000 in 3 1/2..it might have been shells loaded at home b uy these guys...??
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Originally Posted by that_guy
(Post 3522224)
iSnipe,
i was opting for a deer drive set up. i own a mossberg 695 with a 2-7x nikon prostaff scope that i shoot hornady sst 12ga slugs out of when im hunting by myself, but a couple buddies want to drive some property and im going to consider the buckshot option. were going to be all over the northern part of NJ and i just wanted to be prepared for any situation that could happen. if the deer was running, i would rather have the multiple pellets with the 00 |
Originally Posted by Allen Denton
(Post 3521834)
My son uses a 20 gauge 870 with 3" #2 buck and I limit his shots to 40 yards. He has dropped 3 of the five deer he has killed in the past 2 years in their tracks and 2 others went less then 100 yards, the 2 bucks we had to track and the 3 does fell when he pulled on them. Wolfman who makes the 3 1/2 000, I have not ever seen 000, only the Nitro and they are over $100 for 25 shells.
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Originally Posted by solocamcan
(Post 3523995)
If the deer is running, do the ETHICAL thing and don't pull the trigger.:pcwhack:
When we were skinning it later that afternoon turns out two shots had hit him in the lungs and one shot had hit him a little further back but still hit him. I also hunted with this guy another day when he shot a running buck and shot at a doe that was running with it. Thought he missed the doe until it came back by him again and he shot it again killing it. Turns out the buck dropped right where it was when he shot as it was a perfect shot and when he shot the doe it was a good shot but a little far back and the doe didn't fall right there and ran maybe 50 yards in which he had time to shoot again and drop it. To me if this guy can do this with a rifle I see no problem why he shouldn't be able to shoot running deer. Infact I don't know that I've ever seen him miss. Not trying to brag on him I just don't think I can honestly say I've ever seen him miss. I know a couple other guys that while they aren't as good of a shot as this guy also hit the deer almost all of the time even if it is running. There are a lot of guys that are good shots that have lots of practice hitting moving targets that I have no issues if they want to shoot at a running deer as I'm confident they will hit it. |
Originally Posted by hometheaterman
(Post 3524068)
I don't know that I agree with that. I think it all depends on the person shooting. Do I think someone who has only practiced at a still target should shoot? Maybe not. However, I hunt with a lot of guys that hunt with dogs so 90% of the shots the deer is running. Most of them can hit them almost all of the time with the shotgun and several of them hit them the majority of the time with the rifles. One guy I hunt with shot one last year. He is probably the best shot I know. I wasn't personally there but someone else was with him and they said he shot it at around 150-200 yards with his .270. He said he thought it was a doe but it turned out to be a buck with the antlers gone on one side. Anyway, they both said it was flat out running close to the ground and moving fast. He shot the first time and said the deer never even slowed down. Thought he missed and shot again. Said it slowed down slightly this time but kept on moving pretty good so shot again. This time he said it fell over.
When we were skinning it later that afternoon turns out two shots had hit him in the lungs and one shot had hit him a little further back but still hit him. I also hunted with this guy another day when he shot a running buck and shot at a doe that was running with it. Thought he missed the doe until it came back by him again and he shot it again killing it. Turns out the buck dropped right where it was when he shot as it was a perfect shot and when he shot the doe it was a good shot but a little far back and the doe didn't fall right there and ran maybe 50 yards in which he had time to shoot again and drop it. To me if this guy can do this with a rifle I see no problem why he shouldn't be able to shoot running deer. Infact I don't know that I've ever seen him miss. Not trying to brag on him I just don't think I can honestly say I've ever seen him miss. I know a couple other guys that while they aren't as good of a shot as this guy also hit the deer almost all of the time even if it is running. There are a lot of guys that are good shots that have lots of practice hitting moving targets that I have no issues if they want to shoot at a running deer as I'm confident they will hit it. |
Originally Posted by hometheaterman
(Post 3524068)
I don't know that I agree with that. I think it all depends on the person shooting. Do I think someone who has only practiced at a still target should shoot? Maybe not. However, I hunt with a lot of guys that hunt with dogs so 90% of the shots the deer is running. Most of them can hit them almost all of the time with the shotgun and several of them hit them the majority of the time with the rifles. One guy I hunt with shot one last year. He is probably the best shot I know. I wasn't personally there but someone else was with him and they said he shot it at around 150-200 yards with his .270. He said he thought it was a doe but it turned out to be a buck with the antlers gone on one side. Anyway, they both said it was flat out running close to the ground and moving fast. He shot the first time and said the deer never even slowed down. Thought he missed and shot again. Said it slowed down slightly this time but kept on moving pretty good so shot again. This time he said it fell over.
When we were skinning it later that afternoon turns out two shots had hit him in the lungs and one shot had hit him a little further back but still hit him. I also hunted with this guy another day when he shot a running buck and shot at a doe that was running with it. Thought he missed the doe until it came back by him again and he shot it again killing it. Turns out the buck dropped right where it was when he shot as it was a perfect shot and when he shot the doe it was a good shot but a little far back and the doe didn't fall right there and ran maybe 50 yards in which he had time to shoot again and drop it. To me if this guy can do this with a rifle I see no problem why he shouldn't be able to shoot running deer. Infact I don't know that I've ever seen him miss. Not trying to brag on him I just don't think I can honestly say I've ever seen him miss. I know a couple other guys that while they aren't as good of a shot as this guy also hit the deer almost all of the time even if it is running. There are a lot of guys that are good shots that have lots of practice hitting moving targets that I have no issues if they want to shoot at a running deer as I'm confident they will hit it. |
Originally Posted by solocamcan
(Post 3524167)
Kind of reminds me of that movie "Sniper" where the young guy claims to have shot a guy out of a moving helicopter, and Tom Berenger calls his bluff and proves his story to be a bunch of fabricated lies. Im not saying your lying, but c'mon, anyone knows the likely hood of hitting a deer in the right spot while its running compared to a still or walking deer are night and day. And to do it with 00 buckshot with it's 40 yard max effectiveness equate to hopefully a miss and not wounded animals.
Of course it seems hard if you are not experienced at it or are not familar with shooting running deer. To people who run dogs these shots are not hard, as they are expected. |
It's interesting how different hunters in different areas of the country view practices that are quite common in other areas...
I guess some guys don't shoot at quail, rabbits, squirrels, pheasants, doves, ducks or crows while they are flying or running either... Hunters were using dogs to run deer in the South before the Revolutionary War...This developed in the area along the coast and the weapon of choice was a fowler loaded with buckshot...Buckshot is very effective when patterned and the shooter tries different choke tubes and different brands and size buckshot...It's the same as sighting in a centerfire rifle... I've got a Browning B-80 that will put 5-6 Winchester 00 buck into a 8 inch circle at 40 yards...It throws a nice even pattern and has killed around 30 deer out to 50 yards...The trick is to learn to shoot a shotgun and shoot these running deer like you do doves, rabbits, squirrels etc... Another point many don't realize is that when dog hunting deer an the hunter has a shot the dogs follow up behind the deer and often find for the hunter... |
Originally Posted by bryant1
(Post 3524161)
I agree. When I first started hunting with dogs I saw some of the more experienced guys shoot bucks running fast and thought I would never be able to learn how to shoot a moving target. 5 years later, those shots are fairly easy now.
The guy I was talking about earlier is 25 now. He has been using a rifle since he was 18 and says he just got good with it in the last two or three years. Another one that's good has been hunting with one since he was about 12 and he is 26 or so now and his brother is 30 or so. They both are very good with them. Then there are ones like me that shouldn't even shoot at them running as I can't hit them easily. I have trouble holding it still when free hand and I don't know how much to lead them by either. However, with the shotgun it's no where near as hard to hit them. I've seen lots and lots of deer killed with buckshot as well as rifles. As they said earlier you also have the dogs find the deer for you in most cases. I don't know how good of a shot the OP is that's why I don't want to say if he should shoot at a running deer or not. I do however, know there are several guys that I hunt with that can shoot a running deer and hit them the majority of the time. I've seen a few of them miss but like I said with the one guy I don't think I've ever seen him miss. I'm not saying he doesn't miss he just hasn't when I've been hunting with him. |
Originally Posted by solocamcan
(Post 3524167)
Im not saying your lying, but c'mon, anyone knows the likely hood of hitting a deer in the right spot while its running compared to a still or walking deer are night and day.
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Originally Posted by hometheaterman
(Post 3524370)
Yea I've been hunting with guys that hunt with dogs and using a rifle for 3 years now. The first year I didn't really use it and I'm not sure if I even shot it any or not. Last year I shot it it a few times and missed everything I shot at. This year I haven't gotten a chance to shoot it at a deer yet either. I just can't shoot like a lot of the guys that have been hunting with them for years. How did you learn to make the shots easily?
The guy I was talking about earlier is 25 now. He has been using a rifle since he was 18 and says he just got good with it in the last two or three years. Another one that's good has been hunting with one since he was about 12 and he is 26 or so now and his brother is 30 or so. They both are very good with them. Then there are ones like me that shouldn't even shoot at them running as I can't hit them easily. I have trouble holding it still when free hand and I don't know how much to lead them by either. However, with the shotgun it's no where near as hard to hit them. I've seen lots and lots of deer killed with buckshot as well as rifles. As they said earlier you also have the dogs find the deer for you in most cases. I don't know how good of a shot the OP is that's why I don't want to say if he should shoot at a running deer or not. I do however, know there are several guys that I hunt with that can shoot a running deer and hit them the majority of the time. I've seen a few of them miss but like I said with the one guy I don't think I've ever seen him miss. I'm not saying he doesn't miss he just hasn't when I've been hunting with him. The most important factor I have found is following through with a running deer (like shooting waterfowl, clays, etc) and learning to acquire the target in the scope quickly. I guess you could always take a 22LR to the sporting clay range and shoot the 'rabbit' clays with it to practice.... |
Originally Posted by nick_bleuer76
(Post 3524434)
Nice detective work. You obviously have never been on a deer drive, with shotguns. If you cannot hit a running deer at 50 yards, you must not shoot much. It ain't that hard. Additionally, shoot a slug, much better. Shotgun slugs do way more damage then most rifles. Big chunk of lead, moving slowly. It obliterates it's target! Slugs devastate! Honestly, in most cases, where ever you hit a deer with slug, it is going in the freezer!
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Originally Posted by bigcountry
(Post 3524677)
Bad detective work there. You obviously have very little experience comparing slug terminal effects to a rifle.
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Originally Posted by nick_bleuer76
(Post 3524685)
Haha, nice detective work bigcountry! I said that slugs do more damage than MOST rifles. But I can see where I was wrong, most is a kind of a general term statement Read next time, please?
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Hmm, you have killed 30 deer in your life time with 12ga slugs. I butcher about 25 deer a year that have been shot with 12ga's. You can compare it to a car (small rifle) and a Semi (slug). What does more damage when it hits it's target? Why do you not shoot large game with a small rifle. We are comparing apples to oranges! But, at the respected ranges, slugs out perform small caliper rifles i.e. .243 and depending on the ammo .270. You can go look at the ballistic charts yourself. Does your rifle leave exit wounds the size of your fist? And about you laughing. If you make a crappy shot with a slug vs a rifle. I bet you recover more deer with a slug shot deer. Like a said, big object, moving slow with a lot of energy at 50 yds, puts them down. It is hard for a deer to run away when you blow his leg clean off, just saying.
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Originally Posted by nick_bleuer76
(Post 3524434)
Nice detective work. You obviously have never been on a deer drive, with shotguns. If you cannot hit a running deer at 50 yards, you must not shoot much. It ain't that hard. Additionally, shoot a slug, much better. Shotgun slugs do way more damage then most rifles. Big chunk of lead, moving slowly. It obliterates it's target! Slugs devastate! Honestly, in most cases, where ever you hit a deer with slug, it is going in the freezer!
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Originally Posted by bryant1
(Post 3524185)
Buckshot at 40 yds usually has a pattern that will cover the whole vital area, it's very easy to kill one with buckshot at 40 yds running. I was referring to using a rifle, I hardly ever shoot my shotgun. He is also talking about deer being ran by dogs, therefore the dogs will recover a wounded animal.
Of course it seems hard if you are not experienced at it or are not familar with shooting running deer. To people who run dogs these shots are not hard, as they are expected. |
that_guy,
Thanks for the reply. I thought it was something along those lines. Good luck to you! iSnipe ========================== ==========================
Originally Posted by solocamcan
(Post 3523995)
If the deer is running, do the ETHICAL thing and don't pull the trigger.:pcwhack:
I haven't taken a running shot in a very long time, but if the situation arises and if it's a deer I want and feel at the moment I can do it, I'll do it! Yes, take a running shot. A human can get pretty adept at doing something if he's done it several times. Many guys take running shots quite often. I'm not one of them. I don't ever profess to be good at it; then again I don't say I'm bad at it either. Just saying. LOL! I'm comfortable letting a running deer go. Usually it's a great lesson to myself, because had I been paying attention more, most likely I could have seen him before he saw me; therefore, he shouldn't have been running anyway. I do agree running shots should be passed, but that's my call for myself. If someone else wants to do it, then do it without hearing much from me. It's your call, not mine. ============== EDIT: I want to amend to this post... In the beginning, I was talking about buckshot, then without saying, switched over to rifle. I wouldn't hesitate for a second if I were using buckshot and it's a deer I want. If I can hit a flying grouse or duck at full speed with a shotgun, then I can hit a larger running deer with it. With a rifle, I'd be more cautious about the decision to shoot that I may make. EDIT done- iSnipe |
40 yards is the best distance,running or walking,it works.I do like those tri shots,I'll have to check that out.
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Originally Posted by iSnipe
(Post 3524823)
that_guy,
Thanks for the reply. I thought it was something along those lines. Good luck to you! iSnipe ========================== ========================== One would have to be a total boob not to be able to hit a running deer with 00 buckshot. First of all, most these guys using it, already know to keep the shots close. Second, hopefully the deer is going to be hit with multiple pellets to be a fatal shot. I haven't taken a running shot in a very long time, but if the situation arises and if it's a deer I want and feel at the moment I can do it, I'll do it! Yes, take a running shot. A human can get pretty adept at doing something if he's done it several times. Many guys take running shots quite often. I'm not one of them. I don't ever profess to be good at it; then again I don't say I'm bad at it either. Just saying. LOL! I'm comfortable letting a running deer go. Usually it's a great lesson to myself, because had I been paying attention more, most likely I could have seen him before he saw me; therefore, he shouldn't have been running anyway. I do agree running shots should be passed, but that's my call for myself. If someone else wants to do it, then do it without hearing much from me. It's your call, not mine. iSnipe |
Originally Posted by solocamcan
(Post 3524789)
Actually, no I havent been on a deer drive, never had to get that "desperate". And nice detective work by YOU, I wrote this in response to someone who wrote about hitting a running deer 3 out of 3 times with a highpowered rifle at a greater distance than 50 yards, (150-200 yards to quote him). So you can hit a deer anywhere with a slug and kill it? Is that based on your expert "detective" work? :bash:
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Originally Posted by nick_bleuer76
(Post 3525054)
You did not understand what I said. I said in MOST cases, if you make an errant shot, you will still recover the deer. The reason I posted that is because we were discussing shotgun slugs, buckshot, rifles, and hitting deer on the run. It was a discussion, then people decided to turn it into an argument. No reason to get upset, we are all adults with our own opinions. If you believe I am in the wrong, I am sorry I upset you.
And this comparing shooting running deer to rabbit, dove, duck etc etc is insane. I know shooting a running deer can be done, but many make it sound like its a easy shot if you "practice" enough. So you got to "practice" at shooting running deer, wounding far more than killing before you get "skilled" enough to kill them on a regular basis? You dont see the problem with those types of statements? I just picture 'Bubba Redneck' sitting on a hill with a cooler full of PBR next to him, and chain smoking Winstons shooting at any deer he lays eyes on, hoping he hit it because even an errant shot will kill it. |
I was referring to shooting deer at 1 to 100 yards with buckshot vs. slug. Well, it is just like shooting rabbits, squirrels and/or wingshooting ( even if that sounds insane). Sometimes you just have to use your instincts, if you practice shooting, know your gun, know your limits, and practice. You can hit deer effectively. Hitting a moving target is not hard. In Iowa, we grow up shooting birds, I learned to acquire a moving target, aim, fire. I am not saying I am a sniper with a 12 ga, I shoot at running deer at max, 50 yards. Just like bird hunting. Also, us "Bubba Rednecks" prefer Busch Light... :D
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Originally Posted by nick_bleuer76
(Post 3525265)
I was referring to shooting deer at 1 to 100 yards with buckshot vs. slug. Well, it is just like shooting rabbits, squirrels and/or wingshooting ( even if that sounds insane). Sometimes you just have to use your instincts, if you practice shooting, know your gun, know your limits, and practice. You can hit deer effectively. Hitting a moving target is not hard. In Iowa, we grow up shooting birds, I learned to acquire a moving target, aim, fire. I am not saying I am a sniper with a 12 ga, I shoot at running deer at max, 50 yards. Just like bird hunting. Also, us "Bubba Rednecks" prefer Busch Light... :D
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No matter what you shoot, practice. If you can hit the target, have effective ammo, there should be no problem
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hahaha. wow. thanks guys. lots of information in this thread. but to sum it all up, make sure the shot is ethical. and know the target and beyond. i wouldnt ever shoot at something without knowing whats behind it. ill keep all this in mind on my next drive
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OK....I have read all the pages here and WOW..lots of opinions! Someone posted it perfectly and said..I wont Quote....Read what u want, dont read what you dont want, and take away from it what you feel is valuable and disregard what you feel is BS. So thats why we have the open forum area.....Sounds like "That Guy" was able to take away some good and was able to get some entertaining reading along the way.
I just wanted to make a note because i read alot of opinions. I also am from New Jersey, and here we CANNOT use a rifle to hunt. During the week of shotgun season, we have a few choices, sit and "ambush" the game( and by ambush, i am using the term as it is defined by sitting in a blind or a stand)[ Didn't want to get flamed here!, ]with a nice scope and well sighted in shotgun, waiting for the opertune shot, or as most here in NJ do, (since hunting smaller areas due to the sprawl of urbania), we drive many properties with the use of a slug or buckshot. So good luck to you "That Guy" and may your hunting days be enjoyable whether they be successfull or not! |
Originally Posted by solocamcan
(Post 3524789)
Actually, no I havent been on a deer drive, never had to get that "desperate"
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