So is it really hunting or are they essentially shooting "farm cattle"? The whole point of eating venison is that it's all natural. So now we have deer farms that mess with natural breeding and are providing special "nutrients" to bucks. What an absolute joke.

Shooting deer at one of these places ain't hunting, I don't care what anyone says. Do they even allow those things in the books?

Whats next?

They shut down the largest one in Indiana a few years ago for several violations of the Lacey Act, among many other things. The place was only 1,000 acres in total, their largest killing pen was only six acres. While it's true that there are much larger facilities, they all have two things in common. They sell glorified livestock, and they charge way more than I'll ever pay to hunt.

I see your point. But an argument could be made that planting food plots for deer and feeding them corn/deer feed isn't natural either. Not saying I agree with it, just playing devil's advocate.

No, it's not natural but neither is putting a treestand in a tree or using a gun or bow to kill a deer. So yes a food plot, treestand and weapon all give you an advantage. But despite you using any or all of them together, the deer has the option to leave. Domesticated livestock on these fenced in ranches do not. They wait until someone shoots them. And even then it can be a long wait while someone tries to shoot them. Perfect example is that bear that country singer chased around a 3 acre pen with his bow and arrow for hours before he could finally take him. Man that must have been the hunt of a lifetime.

This is way beyond the food plot / baiting argument. Were talking hand fed, ear tags, and artificially inseminated here. The racks are crazy on these things. I'd be ashamed to call it hunting. It's that Saturday morning hunting show garbage. They sit in out-houses, wearing camo for whatever reason, and shoot "managment bucks". Its just sickening when the human element gets involved in wildlife like that. Say goodbye to natural selection.....and pure organic venison.

Unless you eat deer from behind a high fence, you don't have to worry about whether your venison is pure. They are not releasing these deer into the wild to breed with wild deer. They invest way too much money in them.

If high fences bother you, don't go pay money to shoot one of their animals.But, I can't blame a guy for making a living by letting someone shoot his livestock.

It aint for me. Unless the acreage is huge, this is not hunting at all. No high fence animal should be considered for any record book, unless they want to start a new one.

I totally agree with you gentlemen. My response was to the comment that they feed them special things and breed them a specific way. Anyone who practices QDM does the same thing. Planting specific types of food plots to promote antler growth and an overall increase in health. And culling out genetically inferior bucks so only the ones with "good" antlers can breed and pass on their "good" genetics. In no way is that natural even if it's done on a low-fence or no-fence piece of land.

I'm in no way against QDM but I make no illusions that it's "natural".

I won't comment on the first part of your post. I think everybody has right to make a living as long as it's legal. And everybody has there own idea of what a "trophy" is...... Ok so I will comment.

I'm intrigued by second part of your post. I'm not a P&Y or B&C expert (or even amatuer for that matter). But, do "high fence" kills count for these scores?

next thing you know, they will be breeding big bucks like they do pit bulls.

SCI has a "Ranch" (I'm not completely sure of the term) category for many species of "captive" animals they rate. My feelings on high fencing depends on the acreage and method of take, but with that said, there are lots of handicapped and older hunters who benefit from some of these operations.