"Horn Heaven" and other deer ranches
11-19-2009 | 07:50 PM
#21
Thread Starter
Banned
Joined: Nov 2007
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"...The stiff reality of life is that many people can no longer do many things, including hunting, because of a terrible disability or circumstance. Pretending they can just worsens the situation for everyone in my mind. In fact, I personally consider it demeaning to the disabled person when you do that."
With the above quote I think you presume to speak for a group of people who have a pretty large range of opinion. Further, following this logic we exclude kids from the mix too because they can't hunt without an adult. I've been on high fenced operations in Africa that are hundreds of thousands of acres and you'll never even see the fence after entering the gate. Those animals are "free ranging" in the truest sense. Be that as it may, if you don't like high fenced operations, don't hunt on them. Like you I choose not to but I'll never say I wouldn't, because there might come a time or circumstance when I would. I've killed a lot of things hunting and been pretty lucky but I'm not going to berate someone else for their choice. We hunters are all we've got for support.
With the above quote I think you presume to speak for a group of people who have a pretty large range of opinion. Further, following this logic we exclude kids from the mix too because they can't hunt without an adult. I've been on high fenced operations in Africa that are hundreds of thousands of acres and you'll never even see the fence after entering the gate. Those animals are "free ranging" in the truest sense. Be that as it may, if you don't like high fenced operations, don't hunt on them. Like you I choose not to but I'll never say I wouldn't, because there might come a time or circumstance when I would. I've killed a lot of things hunting and been pretty lucky but I'm not going to berate someone else for their choice. We hunters are all we've got for support.
100,000 acres fenced?
Do they capture the elephants and try to breed them? What about the fancy vitamins, enhanced water, and vaccinations?
And I'm sorry, but I just don't see how "domestic" deer are an exceptable hunt for kids and the handicapped. I don't see where a disability means that one doesn't want a real hunt, but only a pretend one.
Kids need to learn that its ok to go home empty handed, small doe, or buck. They may even get lucky. Simulating a real hunt by farm raising bucks and shooting them isn't even close.
11-20-2009 | 08:07 AM
#22
Fork Horn
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 171
Likes: 0
vabyrd; what you need to remember is your idea of ethics as far as hunting doesn't apply to anyone other than yourself. The real questions to ask would be:
1. Is it legal....yes high fence hunting is legal in many parts of the country.
2. Though legal do my (each person's own answer) own personal ethics approve of taking farm reared game behind fence.
As an example I was raised in a part of the USA that doesn't allow baiting of any sort for whitetail deer...to me sitting in a box blind watching as a feeder spin casts corn as an attraction for deer is something I will not do even if traveling to another state where it is a time honored tradition and legal. Nor will I hunt bears over bait where legal or hunt from a "highrack" as it cruises sandy roads looking for mega bucks in south Texas...though legal there an enjoyed by many sportsmen/women yearly.
Those are my chosen ethics and I have no intention of trying to brow beat another sportsmen for theirs....good advice you may wish to heed!
1. Is it legal....yes high fence hunting is legal in many parts of the country.
2. Though legal do my (each person's own answer) own personal ethics approve of taking farm reared game behind fence.
As an example I was raised in a part of the USA that doesn't allow baiting of any sort for whitetail deer...to me sitting in a box blind watching as a feeder spin casts corn as an attraction for deer is something I will not do even if traveling to another state where it is a time honored tradition and legal. Nor will I hunt bears over bait where legal or hunt from a "highrack" as it cruises sandy roads looking for mega bucks in south Texas...though legal there an enjoyed by many sportsmen/women yearly.
Those are my chosen ethics and I have no intention of trying to brow beat another sportsmen for theirs....good advice you may wish to heed!
11-20-2009 | 08:24 AM
#23
Dominant Buck
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 23,836
Likes: 10
From: On an Island in Paradise
Fair chase is my guide. I am not in favor of high fence killing and don't consider that hunting. I put it right along with livestock harvest which certainly isn't hunting. The act of killing livestock for consumption or sale which is legal isn't the issue. People have the right to raise animals and sell them as long as they comply with all the laws. I just hate to see game animals mixed into that type of enterprise.
11-20-2009 | 09:57 AM
#24
Fork Horn
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 171
Likes: 0
Would I call it sport hunting to kill such an animal under those conditions...no but i seriously doubt anyone whom does it calls it that either.
11-20-2009 | 10:19 AM
#25
Thread Starter
Banned
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 824
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vabyrd; what you need to remember is your idea of ethics as far as hunting doesn't apply to anyone other than yourself. The real questions to ask would be:
1. Is it legal....yes high fence hunting is legal in many parts of the country.
2. Though legal do my (each person's own answer) own personal ethics approve of taking farm reared game behind fence.
As an example I was raised in a part of the USA that doesn't allow baiting of any sort for whitetail deer...to me sitting in a box blind watching as a feeder spin casts corn as an attraction for deer is something I will not do even if traveling to another state where it is a time honored tradition and legal. Nor will I hunt bears over bait where legal or hunt from a "highrack" as it cruises sandy roads looking for mega bucks in south Texas...though legal there an enjoyed by many sportsmen/women yearly.
Those are my chosen ethics and I have no intention of trying to brow beat another sportsmen for theirs....good advice you may wish to heed!
1. Is it legal....yes high fence hunting is legal in many parts of the country.
2. Though legal do my (each person's own answer) own personal ethics approve of taking farm reared game behind fence.
As an example I was raised in a part of the USA that doesn't allow baiting of any sort for whitetail deer...to me sitting in a box blind watching as a feeder spin casts corn as an attraction for deer is something I will not do even if traveling to another state where it is a time honored tradition and legal. Nor will I hunt bears over bait where legal or hunt from a "highrack" as it cruises sandy roads looking for mega bucks in south Texas...though legal there an enjoyed by many sportsmen/women yearly.
Those are my chosen ethics and I have no intention of trying to brow beat another sportsmen for theirs....good advice you may wish to heed!
It is what it is...
11-20-2009 | 05:12 PM
#26
Dominant Buck
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 23,836
Likes: 10
From: On an Island in Paradise
animals raised for stocking on shooting preserves are livestock both legally and by definition. They are not endangered nor game animals and are born and raised the same as sheep, hogs and cattle.
Would I call it sport hunting to kill such an animal under those conditions...no but i seriously doubt anyone whom does it calls it that either.
Would I call it sport hunting to kill such an animal under those conditions...no but i seriously doubt anyone whom does it calls it that either.
11-21-2009 | 10:43 AM
#27
Fork Horn
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 338
Likes: 0
From: Eagleville Missouri
All interesting responses. I have been involved in one way or another with people who run high fence and tame bird areas. I do not think this is hunting and it's usually called liscensed shooting. You pay to shoot and kill obviously tame animals. It all depends upon whether or not your personal ethics allow you to do that. Shooting 80 pheasants per day that are picked up and thrown in front of you can be great fun if you can afford the cost. Maybe you're challenging another shooter. It's a shooting competition with live targets. Nothing wrong with that if it's legal. If it's not for you, don't do it.
I was once at an Iowa high fence place, picking a lock for the grounds keeper who had locked her keys in a building. She showed me around and it was very nice. I saw the lodge with a huge deck, with hot tubs overlooking a corral full of bull elk with huge antlers. They were eating from bales of hay, just ten feet from the deck rail. I asked if people could shoot from there? She said one guy took his dream shot from the hot tub, and harvested a very nice bull. He couldn't afford to shoot the big one but he agreed on a price with the owner, on a certain elk and took him, naked, from the tub, at 25 feet.
This was not a hunt, but it was a legal sale of livestock that made someone happy, and made the owner an acceptable proffit. So who was harmed? We as fair chase hunters cannot understand, but must defend this as a free choice made by a liscensed shooter. We need to distance ourselves and hunting from this, because it makes true hunting, in our opinion, look bad, but we must defend their right to kill their livestock any way they want. Just like your choice of rifle or bow, your choice of treestand or ground blind, or your choice of truck.
Everyone does it different and we just must accept that everyone who doesn't drive a Ford, shoot an AR-10 while stalking, and who shoots livestock are not idiots, even though I think they are!
I was once at an Iowa high fence place, picking a lock for the grounds keeper who had locked her keys in a building. She showed me around and it was very nice. I saw the lodge with a huge deck, with hot tubs overlooking a corral full of bull elk with huge antlers. They were eating from bales of hay, just ten feet from the deck rail. I asked if people could shoot from there? She said one guy took his dream shot from the hot tub, and harvested a very nice bull. He couldn't afford to shoot the big one but he agreed on a price with the owner, on a certain elk and took him, naked, from the tub, at 25 feet.
This was not a hunt, but it was a legal sale of livestock that made someone happy, and made the owner an acceptable proffit. So who was harmed? We as fair chase hunters cannot understand, but must defend this as a free choice made by a liscensed shooter. We need to distance ourselves and hunting from this, because it makes true hunting, in our opinion, look bad, but we must defend their right to kill their livestock any way they want. Just like your choice of rifle or bow, your choice of treestand or ground blind, or your choice of truck.
Everyone does it different and we just must accept that everyone who doesn't drive a Ford, shoot an AR-10 while stalking, and who shoots livestock are not idiots, even though I think they are!
11-22-2009 | 01:14 AM
#28
Fork Horn
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 113
Likes: 0
From: NC
Shootin deer under a feeder aint "deer huntin"...
Killing unique game animals in a "zoo", aint a "safari"...
A molded fiberglass bodied, 350 powered replicar, aint a "streetrod", its a "kitcar"...
Catching trout in a trout pond, aint "trout fishin'"...
Sorry, wrong groups.
Killing unique game animals in a "zoo", aint a "safari"...
A molded fiberglass bodied, 350 powered replicar, aint a "streetrod", its a "kitcar"...
Catching trout in a trout pond, aint "trout fishin'"...
Sorry, wrong groups.
