Ruger1

I see your point and fully understand your frustration but I cant agree with you on the outcome of longer rifle seasons. As sad as it is , I think the " slaughter mentallity" out number the rest of us , around here anyway.








Trebarker

I' ll give you my opinion on the deer registration but it' s one sided. I' ve seen no other way , I' ve had to register my deer at registration stations since I started hunting.

First and probably the most important aspect is a more accurate kill count. Second would be the knowlege gained by registration stations. If it wasn' t for our registration system we wouldn' t have detected CWD yet. As for the cost of registration stations to hunters??? None! The majority of our registration stations are taverns who benefit from the extra business. What little cost there is to them they make up in business. The rest of the stations are gas stations (mini marts) and restaraunts and they all benefit by being a registration station.

Everyone is worried about what the non-hunting public sees and thinks. If we conduct ourselves like the upstanding citizens that most of us are no matter what extra-curricular activities we enjoy, how can they view us badly?

I work around a bunch of city dwellers that have no interest in hunting and use as much tact as humanly possible (for me, lol) when talking about hunting. I' ve had several co-workers ask me if I caught anything when I was hunting and I tell them that I don' t practice catch and release techniques unless I' m fishing.
Most of them think that it' s great that the hunters want to help take care of the overpopulation problems, especially when you tell them you do it for free and use your own tags. And none of them turn down my homemade summer sausage and jerky.

When I moved to Kansas and started hunting again, I couldn' t believe that they didn' t have check stations or some sort of reporting method to obtain valid harvest data. Being from Missouri that' s all I' d known as well. You shoot your deer, tag it and drive to the check station, either an MDC office or a feed store, convenience store or local tavern like Bowfanatic mentioned. It is a definate draw for the business owner, they take a couple of notes, hand you a plastic tag for the animal, and make some money off of the people bringing their deer in. I' m all for just doing what I mentioned in a previous post, putting the harvest report on the back of our tag, the portion that doesn' t get put on the deer anyway, kind of like a postcard that is postage free. Fill it out and toss it in the mailbox instead of the circle file.

I' m outta here fella' s, takin' my Cub Scout campin' .....
Ken

Doug,

I just see it making one more hoop to jump thru when it' s not necessary, it can be done much easier.

Ken, I could handle the ARO' s with no problem which I think you know. I' m just getting to the age where I prefer to not be hassled, and prefer not to end up in the Crossbar Hilton for giving a bunny hugger a mind your own business attitude adjustment. I see the value of having an accurate kill record, a good point in your stance, you could put down whatever you want and mail in a card. I still dont like the idea of outside sources doing the checks.

Sorry guys this will be a long one because at the end I have provided the Statutes (You really want to pay attention to them) I have wanted to get out into the Public.

Randy, I agree and disagree with you with the details. If there are check stations I want validation of what is harvested. I will get flamed for this next thing, I refused to send in my survey this year under protest. It is my belief, known by many I totally disagree with collecting the information, then making an assumption from that information, without determining the validity or accuracy of the data. It is my belief also that many tags are not filled legally, but if there was a mandatory self report, all you would get back is the type of tags released mostly, not a true indication of what was taken. You also know my opinion that many whitetail only or doe only are filled with either a Mulie buck or a whitetail buck, and if reported is reported by the tag.

If we made policy on that information (which we have done) we may make an incorrect choice which dramatically affects the deer herd. HMMMM, sounds like something like that has happened. MY concern was/has been that the Agency has an operation problem. Enforcement is an issue when talking about voluntary self report. Meaning if the hunters are compelled to their internal moral compasses...self report will yield garbage data. If enforcement actions indicate the will of the KDWP, the will is very low. With 69 CO' s, there is could be legal basis for a regulation not really law if the agency refuses to enforce. (Remember this is not a reflection on the field personnel, it is the agency using monies not for their intended purposes.)

Another poor expenditure is KDWP attorneys. We do pay them ... we have some on staff ... what are they doing with the prosecution issue with CA' s and DA' s is inexcusable. I found the statute that requires the CA and DA to prosecute and report. This is their legal duty. IF they have not supported enforcement, they are in breach of legal duty, they can be recalled, disbarred, and can never be a judge again. Now why do we have an att' y on staff, and most of the ideas and reasons come from some very PO' ed hunter, compelling the b-crat to do the damn job we are paying them for. These state agencies do not deliver services to the people of Kansas very effectively, efficiently, or cheaply.

Dana Brown


Chapter 32.--WILDLIFE, PARKS AND RECREATION
Article 10.--ENFORCEMENT
32-1053.

County or district attorneys' duties; prosecution fee. It shall be the duty of each county or district attorney to prosecute any person or persons charged with a violation of any of the wildlife and parks laws of this state or rules and regulations of the secretary. The attorney so prosecuting shall receive the fee established by law or by the court having jurisdiction over the matter for each prosecution in a district court, and such fee shall be taxed to the defendant in every case where conviction shall be had. History: L. 1911, ch. 198, § 32; R.S. 1923, 32-132; L. 1973, ch. 134, § 37; L. 1976, ch. 145, § 155; L. 1989, ch. 118, § 139; July 1.


Chapter 32.--WILDLIFE, PARKS AND RECREATION
Article 10.--ENFORCEMENT
32-1054.Report of prosecutions.

It shall be the duty of every judge or clerk of the court before whom any prosecution for a violation of the wildlife and parks laws of this state or rules and regulations of the secretary is commenced or goes on appeal, within 20 days after disposition thereof, to report in writing to the department the result thereof and the amount of fine collected, if any. History: L. 1911, ch. 198, § 33; R.S. 1923, 32-133; L. 1973, ch. 134, § 38; L. 1989, ch. 118, § 140; L. 2001, ch. 185, § 3; July 1.

Kinda earthshaking huh? You can go ahead and comment. I have a real concern with self report with the level of illegal activities taking place. Tresspasing seems to be no big deal and people are getting so brazen that they now are flying aircraft to deer hunt.

We have got to get ahold of all aspects of this program!!

Dana

NoMercy;

Where ya been bud. Come on in the waters' fine.

Joking aside, your question is not a new question and has been asked many times. To this day the KDWP doesn' t acknowlege this issue as an issue of fairness. You are not the only one that has noticed, far from it. There are hundreds of people out there asking the same question and it is continually falling on deaf ears. The letter that was posted here on this site is not the only one that has been recieved by the Lame Commission and the KDWP, but as you saw witness on this site it was probably deleted or trashcanned. That is a direct result of the closed mindedness that is inherent and ingrained into our system. It should matter little how the issue was presented, it should matter more that the issue was raised at all and how it was addressed (or in these cases completely ignored). To this day KDWP refuses to accept that there is a fairness issue to address.

All I can tell you is, get involved. You wouldn' t beleive the amount of data we have on this subject. You will also be amazed at what you learn through the participation process. I know there are people on this board that think I just woke up one day and decided to rasie some cain with the KDWP. Far from true, the more I learned about what is going on the more determined I am to get to the heart of this issue. It' s not going to take too many more people like you and me to start effecting how this state conducts business in this area.

I think we have something like 5 major gun clubs statewide and about a dozen more big ones at at the local levels, have you ever wondered where the gun clubs are on this issue and why they are not taking a stand for firearms owners? You and I are not the first people to look at this as a clear gun rights issue. I don' t care what anyone else posts here - IT IS A GUN RIGHTS ISSUE. Well, a couple of other people and I have experience with what' s going on in that area first hand. I' m not going to air any dirty laundry on this site, but I will give you this - find out collectivly who else in the body of your club feels the way you feel, collectively talk to the people on your executive councils. Singly they will discount you, collectively they will not. Find out EXACTLY where they stand on this issue and why. As a paying member you have every right to know. Do not be surprised at the responses you get - but don' t back down, you are right and this is a gun issue and the people on those councils MUST HAVE THEIR FOCUS on those issues - PERIOD. Besides, the KDWP has on many occasions stated that the firearms community is the least reperesented in big game issues. Hard to believe but it' s true. Another thing to consider is firearms are the majority of hunters afield and the minority in represented issues(Could this be at the heart of the fairness issue?) Currently, because of gunclubs stances and lack of representation on this particular issue I do not belong to any of the state or local gun clubs. It is begining to turn. If you are interested, feel free contact me. I will join the first gun club that actively commits to this issue and I know I could get lots more membership for that club just dealing with this issue solely. In my opnion the current representation from the gun clubs that we do have interfacing with the state is selling us all down the river. Make no mistake about it NoMercy, we as firearms hunters have been our own worst enemies through our apathy. Yes we have some slob hunters and individuals with sever harvest mentatily in our ranks - but I personally would place apathy as our biggest problem as firearms hunters. Many would say we are getting what we deserve - I disagree, but it is VERY hard to argue.

Some things to look for in your discussions is key words. Those words usually are a dead giveaway of the stance of the particular individual and speaks a load of where exactly they are coming from. In this issue, you are going to hear the word ' uninmformed' overly unsed. It doesn' t matter that you may have a boat load of data compared to someone that may only have something jotted on the back of an envelope - the envelope guy is usually the first person to cast out " you are uninformed" . Don' t get mad that' s just human nature. This issue stirs passions, so just be informed. The word ' uninformed' is as easy to use as the words ' common sense' . A response to one of my posts on the Any Deer Tag issue made the statement that the current system relies on common sense and then proceded with the rational. The post struck me as funny because I really believe that if you were to look at the deeper issue it is lacking of common sense. Common sense tells you that a regulatory responsibility dictates a clear concise definition for reglulatory instruments such as the any deer tags, and that is not the case. In World Book Dictionary " double standard" is defined as ' a standard applided to one group more leniently than the other.' I' ll let you go back and check the post and see if it stands the scrutinity. The data and common sense tells me it' s a double standard. This is just a drop in the bucket of what you are dealing with. Above all else become informed and participate.

Another thing that some people will try to derail you is with the insult that you just want to liberalize deer hunting - just disreguard that for the stupidity that it is. I don' t know of many firearms hunters that really want to liberalize anything - more like you and me they see something screwy going on and we are not being told the facts straight up(because of the data issue). For example; about a couple of years ago at Emporia, the Commission voted for and unanimously passed without discussion (or data) to deregulate requirements for bows. No longer is there a pull weight, draw lenght or letoff requirements for bows. If this happened in the world of firearms, it would be akin to allowing anything that goes bang for deer - 31 cap n' ball, all the rimfires, 14 and 17 calibbres, etc, etc. I don' t know how anyone in their right mind advocates such a thing and then talks of how concerned they are about the health of the deer herds. Many of my friends that bowhunt said it is the stupidest thing that has ever happened in the state of Kansas, and I agree. All you have to do is look at some of the bows that are showing up in the deer hunting field these days, some are not much more than toys. Now, before anyone scathes me for this statement, I want to be perfectly clear - I don' t cotton to any subcalibre anything - bow, guns, muzzlestuffer - anything. If you are going to hunt deer you need to be sure that you CAN handle enough weapon ( no matter what it is) to responsibility and humanly take deer. This Commission is the same bunch of people that throw away your inputs because you are not nice. Could there possibly be a huge crediability gap here? So, don' t let the liberalization accuzation bother you, the facts on that matter are clearly in your favor.

Don' t be derailed by peolpe that tell you they hunt with both gun and bow. Talk to them and see where their convictions are. People who hunt with both are also on both sides of this issue. Earl Nightingale (world renouned philosifer) wrote " What you do speaks so loudly that I cannot hear what you speak" . What this means is talk is cheap, and actions speak louder than words.

If any middle ground is going to be reached, it will be only because Gun Club members get actively involved and then get their executive councils to properly represent them on issues with KDWP. Make no mistake about it - you are on the right track. Keep asking questions and make sure the answers make sense. I or a couple of other people I know can help you with that.

God Hunting to you all.

Dave

Dana, The two laws you have posted, sorry but they do not require that prosecution take place. They only mandate what happens WHEN prosecution AND Conviction occurs. 32-1053 dictates how fines and fees will be accessed. 32-1054 only says the convicting court shall notify KDWP with results and amount of fines collected when a case is actually prosecuted. I would like to see the CA of Smith Co. further investigated for his stance against prosecuting game violations and hope that the honest people of that county stand up against him.

I also agree that checkpoints would be more accurate than mail in with KJr' s, Bowfanatic' s, and your statements. I had forgotten how dishonest people have become in their quest to be successful instead of enjoying ethical hunting.

Ruger1

For awhile there I thought you were a true sportsman just trying to get equal hunting time for gun hunters and bow hunters alike. Then you made your last post and showed your true colors , another bowhunter basher![:' (] Why dont you give bowhunting an honest try and then see if your convictions change!


This is my last post on this thread.

Good luck to all Kansas hunters!

Bowfanatic;

Boy, those accusations are sure alot easier than understanding the issues!!! I' m still looking for any substance in any of your posts or arguments. All you have done on this sight is take a defensive stance and lay in wait to make hollow accusations.

Your postings will not be missed.

Dave

Understand the issues? Still looking for substance in any of your posts and arguments? All you have done on this sight is take a defensive stance and lay in wait to make hollow accusations.

Boy if that isn' t the pot calling the kettle black.