supaflav

It's seems to always fall around the full moon, but I'm not sure about the 2nd full moon after the autumn equinox. I live in Alabama and there is a Nov, Dec & Jan rut all withing 30 miles of my house. So I don't see how the 2nd full mmon theory could be possible in my area.

wahoohunter

Remember alsheimer's work is north of the 36'30 line

kevin1

Nearly all of the research that I've read leans toward photoperiodism as being the primary triggering agent, not the moon phase.

BetterBirddogs

I don't believe it. I tend to believe that the length of daylight is what triggers does into estrus. I also don't believe you can go off one person's study because everyone's place is different. On my new place for example there are 6 does to every buck so I don't have a fighting phase of the rut. You can't rattle them in or anything. They don't need to fight. I'm in the process of doe removal but its gonna take me a couple years. I think you can't go by cookie cutter research because everyone's hunting place has different factors.

wahoohunter

Photoperiodism is triggered by the moon Every year, generally around the last week of October and first week of
November the first full moon after the Fall Equinox occurs, to deer hunters this is often referred to as the "rutting moon." The rutting moon and decreasing amount of light taken in through the deer’s eye triggers a sensory receptor in the brain, kind of like their all-natural aphrodisiac.



Alsheimer isn't the only one who studies this; there have been multiple studies completed and I think you'll find most biologists and experts in the field tend to agree that it is, in fact, the moon that triggers it. Most people don't have a "fighting" phase of the rut, actually, I'm pretty positive it doesn't exist, there three phases are the seek, chase and breeding phases and as Rockin' Chair said they do/can all over lap one another. Buck to doe ratio only effects the intenesity of the rut, the overlapping of phases and the length of the rut. It really has nothing to do with the onset of the rut. Deer don't have the thinking capacity to say, "Well,this year there ratio is 3 to 1, I must thus begin rutting early in order to be able to breed all of the does." With rut length, however, a poor ratio is much more of a problem as the rut can be lenghtened from its traditioanl 40 days to nearly 90 sometimes which is very, very hard on the buck's body and can sometimes drive them to death.

Like you said, every place is different, however, it does not affect that onset of the rut. North of the 36'30 line you'll find very consistent evidence and research that the first full moon following the fall equinox triggers the rut. And, let me say, it is far from cookie cutter research And, even if it were, people like Alsheimer and Lee Rue are two people who I'd go to the bank with when it comes to their studies, they are pure genuis when it comes to whitetials. Have you read much of their stuff, Birddog?

All that being said, what studies/experience has lead you to believe that rutting activity is triggered by the length of daylight? Ya never know, maybe you're on to something~

timbercruiser

We are seeing aLOT of small spotted fawns over the last couple of weeks also, futher showing that the does aren't being bred according to the 2nd moon theory.

MJL927

The theoryholds merit. As Charlies likes to say when explaining the theory, it stands to reason that a natural mechanism would be in place to trigger the rut cycles. The full moon is as good (and reliable) a mechanism as any. I read all of his articles and I've been to one of his seminars. It is certainly hard to dismiss the 20 years of data they have collected which support his theory. So, yes, I do think he is onto something there.

BetterBirddogs

Wahoo I'm not trying to discredit someone's hard work but I just don't think the moon has as much to do with deer patterns and movement and rutting action as people let on. I took off almost the entire month of November and bow hunted my spot most of those days. I got in early and stayed all day. I only saw bucks on their feet on my place during the day on four of those days. They were random days at that. I would talk with my buddy who has a great spot for big bucks and he didn't see much on the days I did. On the day his dad shot and missed a big deer they had good buck movement. I sat all day that day and didn't see one deer.

The only reason I bring up the daylight thing is from my experience bird hunting and watching pheasants in Western Kansas when I live in Dodge City. The pheasants would be paired up but you wouldn't seen any nesting or egg laying activity until there were at least 12 1/2 hours of continuous daylight. Quail and turkeys are the same way.

Check out this pic.



I think the fawn in this pic is about 3-4 weeks old. Notice the date. Deer have a gestation period of about 180 days more or less. That puts this fawn being conceived about the middle to the late part of January. I just don't think you can cookie when the does come into estrus on every place. I'm not saying those guys don't know their stuff. I am saying they don't know my place like I do.

I saw two 140" class bucks herding their own group of does on Nov 15th this season. They were about 300 yards apart in the same enclosed bean field and completely oblivious to each other. I have several deer on my place that will go at least 135" with some in the 150" range and to say that these bucks shouldn't at least be posturing to each other during the rut is crazy I think. My buddy's spot up north of me doesn't have 1/5th as many does and he can rattle in buck after buck. I think there is a fighting element to the rut. I think I used "phase" earlier and that was the wrong choice of words. I just refuse to believe that you can generalize the rut and when does come into estrus on each individual spot. I hear people say that the deer really during the full moon. Sometimes I find that to be the case and sometimes I don't. I just try to avoid generalizations about deer behavior.

And no Wahoo, I haven't read any of it. I'm sure it's interesting though.

teedub31

I don't think that you can use 1 case of a spotted fawn as evidence to debunk a theory. Also, as someone pointed out, the moon theory is to be applied to a certain parallel, I'm not sure which it is though. South of that line, the mmon theory does not really apply if I understand it right. It is also my understanding that does come into heat about every 28 days (hmmm 28 days, isn't that# related to the moon). That is why you will see what some call a mini rut in Late November thru mid December and quite possibly an even smaller rut in January as fawns born early in the previous year are coming into estrous (but I imagine a January breeding period would happen mostly in the south as opposed to the northern climates.

teedub31

And as far as generalizations go about deer behavior?? That is the only way to approach deer hunting to ensure an elevated level of success based on skill. If you don't use behavior generalizations then why set up on high potential feeding sites or funnels from bedding to feeding. Or why even bother hunting areas that are know to hold does? Why rattle or use scents like Tinks #69?

We use these tactics based on how a deer would general react with hopes that the reaction is positive in harvesting a deer.