Outfitters
 

Nothing against outfitters but I have never understood why anyone would hire one for a hunt. I would just like to know for my own info so if you have done it before would you mind telling me why? ( Canada or Alaskamight be the exception)

Thanks,

Spudrow from MO

RE: Outfitters
 

Remember, its not the hunt your paying for, its the access to land, the fact the scouting has been done as the outfitter is familiar with the area, and some provide a place to stay and meals on the table allowing the hunter more time to enjoy the hunt, rather than the work of maintaining the camp

Its not for everyone, but it is a service that has demand and does provide its benefits.

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I mean how else would someone like me hunt elk, or muleys....... I live in GA so that is pretty much the only route to go.

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I never hunted with an outfitter but have used air taxis.I have hunted elk ,mulies pronehorn ,bear ,caribou,alaska moose ,wolfs and many other animals in many state and never needed one .Some of the other critters I want to hunt ,require a guide so I will do what I have to someday when I can afford it.I have a buddy that uses them all the time but he can afford it.The word hunting means diffrent things to each person.


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RE: Outfitters
 

Thanks fellas. I have never used an outfitter. I guess what ya'll said makes sense. It's a lot of work but I have always done western huntsmyself. Finding a place to hunt, private property,camping out, camp fires, scouting etc. I enjoy the whole 9 yards. Different strokes for different folks. Not a problem

Spudrow from MO

RE: Outfitters
 

we think alike. there is public land in every state. i would never pay for a hunt where someone else has done all the work (scouted, hung stands, pattered the game, etc.), where all you had to do is sit where the "guide" tells you to and pull a trigger (like every t.v. hunting show). some people like this style of hunting but it's not for me. half the pleasure of hunting for me is the work before season opens. it makes for a bigger feeling of accomplishment.

RE: Outfitters
 

For me it's a time and experience thing. I probably would never go on an outfitted whitetail hunt. I hunt those here.

However, I have been on 3 elk archery hunts and loved every minute. When it comes to a species you don't know how to hunt, except for "book knowledge" and its an occassional trip, not an annual thing. The outfitter provides a lot of things so that you don't have have to worry about: food, lodging, land to hunt, knowledge of the animal, scouting out spots to hunt.

Could I learn this all and do an elk hunt on my own? I probably could now that I've been three times, I've been through the pack it out once its down, I know the calling basics, but I still have to find manpower to get the elk out, a place to stay, access to land and a few years learning and scouting an area. This is all done for me via the outfitter.

I've also REALLY enjoyed the company and friendship of the outfitter and guide.

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Exactly! Another thing is,a nonresidentcan't hunt in Canada without one.;)

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i don't have to worry about that. i'll never be able to afford to hunt in Canada

RE: Outfitters
 

good post... i used to think the same way myself.

people come from out of state to hunt with us for many reasons:

- for the piece of mind that nobody else is screwing up the land.
- the simple fact that their work doesn't allow them to spend time in the woods anymore, so if they have only 3 or 4 days off.
- some people are more trophy hunters than others. i don't guarantee anything but atleast they know that there are good deer on the land.
- the also come because there is someone to take care of the animals... foodplots, scouting, giving them treestand locations, lodging, meals.
-out of state tags cost too much to screw around with public deer that are often too pressured to hunt or too small to shoot.
- to some it is a retreat or vacation, why not spend your vacation hunting.

just because you like to do your own scouting and finding your own animals doesn't mean that there are other hunters out there with different likes and dislikes, or even have the same opportunities. i respect them all.

i still think it is a good post, it is good that you are trying to understand what you haven't experienced.

thanks;
vick

RE: Outfitters
 

Even in some of the very best big buck states (mid west) the most desireable land is private. A lot of the time this land can only be accessed via an outfitter. Even if you could go it alone on some of these properties, by the time you found out the patterns/best stand locations ect, you would have eaten up a lot of your precious hunting time. Most folks only have a week to hunt.[&o]

RE: Outfitters
 

it seems to me, atleast on all the hunting shows, most of the lands the outfitters useare private lands (usually farms) where they have just obtained permission by the farmer. to me anyone can knock on a door and get permission, they are just trying to monopolize these area's to make money off of someone elses land.

RE: Outfitters
 

Thank you Vick for your input. I respect all forms of hunting that is legal. AS for outfitters hunting private land, well I know for a fact they hunt public land as well. So I don't believe hunters are paying for the land as someone stated. There is a demand for outfitters and all services should be paid for, in my opinion.
I also understand people who are limited for time. It's just something I think isn't for me. Different strokes. Let's just keep one thing in mind. Keep on hunting!!!!!

Spudrow from MO

RE: Outfitters
 

I always said a big part of the cost is for the camp/outfitting not the guiding part. I think most of us if you dropped us in an area with game, we could get the job done.

But if hunting wilderness, how do you plan for a guy who doesn't live in that state to get it done? backpack all the gear in? and the animal out? rent horses? mules? also for a guy who has little to no experience with this stuff, good luck.

Also I think, are you looking to shoot just any animal? is an elk and elk? well then the DIY 'er has a much easier task than the guy who wants to DIY a 350" trophy bull elk.

Some species are more apt for DIY IMO.

If spending an extra $1000 vs. what it would cost you to outift yoru own hunt etc.....and if that means having a more enjoyable hunt and getting an animal vs, not that's cheap IMO. I don't want to take a elk hunting vacation, I want to be elk hunting when I go.

But certainly some insight on your skills for hunting other states would be interesting to know.

Also if DIY means hunting 2 weeks, just to get on game, vs. 1 week, well many guys that could mean going hunting vs. not going hunting.

But I do agree with you, and certainly the more I do it the easier it'll become, I think for many guys taking that plunge/chance to go on your own, to a new random area can be overwhelming, I get frustrated just looking at maps, seeing the miles and miles of forest/wilderness, its like where do you begin? will the be any game there?

I did read kinda a memoir once of this hunter, who had taken game all over the world, and taken mostly great trophies, and had been very successful, his advice, was, to never book a cheap hunt, he truly believed you go twhat yo paid for. and I think if you have the money and it's not much of an issue, you might as well pay for the best and have a great experience. Though if DIY gives your more satisfaction, then thats up to you as well.

RE: Outfitters
 

That is the only way I have ever used an outfitter. Can't hunt in parts of canada without one.

RE: Outfitters
 

As others have stated, sometimes it just isn't easy to hunt a different state or province all on your own. An outfitted hunt makes things a whole lot easier. Is the cost worth it? That is only something YOU can decide. It depends on how badly you want the animal. One should never think an outfitted hunt will guarantee you game, because it won't. Finding a good, reputable outfitter is not exactly easy either. Lots of rip-off artists in this field to say the least. I haven't been on an outfitted hunt for a good many years now, and honestly have NO desire to go again at the unreal prices they charge these days. Their prices have been going up way faster than any inflation rate I have seen for anything else! I wonder if the outfitting business is suffering as of late with the economy not being too good? I just can't see too many people shelling out that kind of money when the time are not that great.

RE: Outfitters
 

I "do it the hard way" here in Mass. I'm out early in the spring, trying to identify any new travel routes before the green up hides everything. I put in food plots (by hand, deep in the woods)to help the herd through the critical antler growing/lactation months, I hang my own stands, I cut my own shooting lanes, I position my own trailCams and retrieve pictures every week so as to begin to pattern the deer. I do this where I live (actually 50 minutes away from my home) because I am able to!

But I like to hunt other areas also. I like to see other parts of the country and try to harvest deer in these areas. When I leave my wife & kids for any extended period of time, I darn well make sure it's worth my time away from them. If I leave on a business trip- I verify that it is business that couldn't be conducted via phone or videoconference. When I leave on a hunting trip- I want to be HUNTING while I'm away, not SCOUTING, HANGING STANDS, CUTTING LANES or PATTERNING DEER! I do my homework & find the best outfitter that I can afford. When looking for an outfitter, I look for four things:

- no undue pressure placed on the resources (deer or land) by the outfitter
- no assembly line of hunters running through the camp
- level of personalized service provided to hunters by outfitter is very high
- % of shot opportunities at quality bucks afforded to bowhunter in the last couple of years

Everything else is a distant priority. I don't care how good the meals are, just provide me some healthy food that won't give me the runs. I don't care how nice the cabin/ranch is, just provide me a warm, clean, scent-free bed & a place to store my gear where folks can't screw with or contaminate it.

If I do my homework right, I enjoy myself- whether I harvest an animal or not. I see beautiful country, meet new nice folks & have a legitimate opportunity to take an animal that I will be proud of. When I get to camp, I want to sit down with the outfitter and review a topo map of the property and understand where the stands are, what stands are good for what type of wind, what stands have been used by other bowhunters who were there prior to us this season and what stands he feels have been blown up or burnt out. I'll then wait my turn and request the stand that I feel would suit me best & ask the outfitter if he feels there's a better stand for me to hunt.

I still have to rattle orcall them in. I still need to stay concealed. I still need to put a good shot on them. I still need to recover them. Don't think for one minute that just because one hunts with an outfitter that it's a lay up and some 10 point, 150" buck is going to walk right to your stand & stop 15 yards broadside- it's still work. Just a different type of work where one is doing more hunting and less prep work.

Hereare pictures of two bucks that I'm hunting the "hard way" here in MA. I can't tell you the number of hours I've put in the woods in order to get pictures of these two bucks and begin to pattern them.





When I use Outfitters, I use thembecause I love to hunt and time is my most precious commodity at this point in my life.

Rob

RE: Outfitters
 

You'd get arguments from many that hunting deer that are attracted by feeders as hunting the "hard way".

RE: Outfitters
 

Hunting in most of Canada you must have an outfitter,i Believe Ontario is the exception.If yourtime is limited use an outfitter ,if not try to hunt on public land and as someone else said you will find a more satisfyinghunt.D&DHsome times have articles aboutareas in other states that cost evey little to hunt.

RE: Outfitters
 

Steve,
The Feeders have to be out of the woods one month before opening day. We can't hunt over bait here in MA and I don't intend to. I use the feeder to help bring the deer in until the plot takes off- which it is just about to do.

I think you jumped the gun just a *tad* assuming I was hunting over a feeder. But that's OK- I don't know you, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

Where it's legal to hunt over feeders, I have no problem with people who do it. However for me, that's something I simply can't do here in MA.

Have a lovely hunting season,

Rob

RE: Outfitters
 

No.... you are defiently wrong about that most all hunting showes are sponcered by those ranches, and outfitters, that is a big plug for their business to have realtree or primos send a prostaffer out there to film a hunt..... that is all a business deal, and all of those ranchers are hunting outfitters.

RE: Outfitters
 

Well, for me I've always hunted deer here in GA doing it the hard way!! I began to get an interest in bowhunting in Illinois a few years ago and began looking for an outfitter to try. But when I looked at prices and my desire to do it myself, I realized it wasn't going to happen.

Then a friend of mine turned me onto finding private land and help me to realize that IL was close enough to where I live to 'do-it-yourself'. 2006 was my first year hunting there.

For 2008, I have land I can hunt when ever I want for much less than a 1 week long outfitter experience. ANd I get to do it myself! It is really a great experience.

Having said all that, the 6 hour drive I make is a stretch for this type of hunting. If I ever get the money to go to some distanct places (out west or Canada, for example), I would not hesitate to use an outfitter. The outfitter is doing some of the legwork you don't have time to get done. That's OK by me.

RE: Outfitters
 

I have never used an outfitter but am close friends with a few. For the most part, it comes down to time. There are alot of hunters out there that just do not have the time to do all of the legwork for the opportunity to hunt. I think of all the hours that I spend scouting, setting stands, trimming up shooting lanes etc. and in hindsight I know there are many that just do not have this time. I've already put in 8 trips to an area that I hunt and at $30 gas per trip the cost of scouting is going up every year. Add on the 8 days that I was away time is also a factor.Bow season starts in a month and I know that I'll be up there a couple more times. I feel very fortunate that I have the time to put in but I know there are many that don't. Some hunters luck into that bigbuck but if you want to do it yourself and have consistant results you have to put time in.If you don't have the time then perhaps an outfitter is the way to go. In some cases though, as here in Manitoba, it is the law for non-Canadian hunters to hire the services of an outfitter.

RE: Outfitters
 

In general I am a do-it-yourself type hunter. When I go on vacation, I'd rather be traveling to the backwoods with a backpack or by canoe and sleep on the ground than go to a plush hotel. But you know, every once in awhile, treating one's self to some luxury is a nice change of pace. I went on a 5 day Caribbean cruise once and while it's not something I would choose on a regular basis, it was still fun.

I've used an outfitter one time (3 day turkey hunt in the south) and combined it with a visit to relatives I hadn't seen for awhile. I had a great time. It was nice being on vacation and being able to spend time in the woods. I got to see a part of the country that I had not seen before. The people were great. The food was great. It was nice not having to worry about cooking a meal at the end of the day. It was fun to have the comraderie in the evening after a long day of hunting.

So while I prefer the do-it-yourself route, I definitely can see the appeal and to just do something a little different.

RE: Outfitters
 

Try to do this in the big buck states of the mid west and let us know how you make out. I think you'll be in for a surprise.;)

RE: Outfitters
 

i may be wrong but it seems like every hunting show you hear an "outfitter" say, "if this spot doesn't work out, i got another farm we can hunt down the road".

RE: Outfitters
 

so everyone that hunts in the "big buck states" are land owners or use outfitters? just curious, i live in the south not up north.

RE: Outfitters
 

I wasn't implying that you did hunt over a feeder because there was no way for me to know for sure, but in many peoples minds hunting the "hard way" means getting out into the boonies to hunt and find deer without putting food out specifically for them. Your states rules dictate that feeders must be removed before hunting season which is fine, but nonetheless efforts were made beforehand to try to get them into the area by putting food out for them. Now I am not condemning you or anyone for hunting this particular way, we all use some sort of advantage to get our deer. I just think that the guy who hunts with only his eyes, ears, feet and any hunting skill and patience he might have without the use of food as an attractant is the one who should be considered hunting the "hard way" or at least the "harder way".

RE: Outfitters
 

All I'm saying is most, not all, of the land/farms in thesegreat mid westbig buck states is private land. You're not just going to walk up to these farms, knock on the door, and get permission to hunt. Most, not all,of these farmers are affiliated with an outfitted.
You would have to really look around hard to find one who's not.;)

RE: Outfitters
 

Not to pile on, but using feeders to attract deer to food plots falls somewhat outside of the hard way, at least the way I hunt. But to each his own.

Some folks are being a little pessimistic about most landowners in the good Midwest states being associated with outfitters. That may be the case in the golden triangle in Illinois, but in the part of the state where i am from and own land, outfitters are not nearly as common. I know lots of people who hunt on private land for free, with permission from the owner obviously. But that is gonna change over the next decade. In the meantime, if you are willing to knock on doors and put in some effort, you can still find private land.

RE: Outfitters
 

Spudrow;
I have used an outfitter a few times (for deer and hog) and I will try to explain why.
I have deer hunted since 1968 in N.J & N.Y. mostly on state land.
I have read just about every book and article there was on deer hunting.
I have spent days and days scouting and planning each deer season and I have been lucky enough to harvest 22 whitetails, the biggest was a 7 pointer.
Now at 56 it is difficult for me to drag a 150 lbs deer 1.5 miles to my truck. It's actually hard enough just to get myself back.
Over the years it seems the deer have become more spooked. Most seasons I don't even see a buck during gun season. All I see are other hunters. They all seem to hunt farther back into the woods than they use too and there are less places for everyone to hunt on, forcing more guys onto the state land.

I went to a outfitter in S.C and in 3 daysI saw over 50 deer including several 8 pointers.
This outfitter took me to my stand and pick me up several hours later. He drags the deer to his truck and takes it right to a butcher. Did I mension that it isn't as cold in S.C. like it is in N.Y. in November?

I have done deep woods hunting, bow hunting,black powder,handgun, etc.
I have froz in late December to the point of frostbite on my toes.

I was ready to give up hunting out of frustration.

Using this outfitter is so nice. I highly recommend it.

Warren

RE: Outfitters
 

50+ years hunting in the States, Never!........Twice in Canada, Once in Argentina, Once in Venezuela and Once in Mexico..

RE: Outfitters
 

So that means this guy- "who hunts with only his eyes, ears, feet and any hunting skill and patience he might have", he doesn't use a grunt call or doe bleat, he doesn't rattle with antlers or a bag, he doesn't use any type of scent attractant......this guy- is hunting the harder way? Because when youget right down to it- any of the aforementioned items are nothing more than lures.

Food is a lure. Horns, Grunts & Bleats are audible lures. Scent attractants are olfactory lures. There's no debating this. These items are all used with the intention to trick the deer into thinking that something is there that really isn't there. Atleast the food is really there. That's whyit can't be down on the ground come opening day here in MA.

Furthermore, this guy- who's doing it the "harder" way, must also not be using camo clothing or cover scents. Because doing so, would not be hunting "with only his eyes, ears, feet and any hunting skill and patience he might have". As you havesubmitted above.

Let's take a poll. I'd like to know how many bowhunters out there do it the "harder" way like Steve is suggesting. I'd like to know who out there bowhunts deer and doesn't use ANY of the following:

- horns orrattle bags
- grunt call
- doe bleat
- scent attractant
- food attractants
- cover scent
- camo clothing

Let's hear it.

Rob

RE: Outfitters
 

Like I said in a previous post all types of hunting, if legal,are fine with me. Just keep on hunting.

I know for a fact being from Missouri, hunting in Ill, Ne, Co, Ark, Tn, Al, Wy, and of course Mo, there is plenty of free land to hunt. It's out there. Be it private, state, or national, it's there. In nearly 50 years of hunting, I've gone on a lot of out of state DIY hunts and only been skunked twice. I guess I'm lucky. Almost all cities have a Chamber of Commerce. You can call them to sometimes get a list of ranchers or farmers that allow hunting on their property. You can also call the game warden or the biologist from the areas you might be thinking of hunting.Now sometimes you may have to pay a trespass fee but it's usually well worth it and very reasonable. Also if you have hunting buddies the transportation cost, food, etc is shared. No matter how ya'll hunt, good luck this year and have fun.


Spudrow from MO

RE: Outfitters
 

Graydawg,

I'm not a bowhunter, but when i do gun hunt, i rarely if ever use any of that stuff. It frustrates my dad and he will sometimes sneak up on me and douse me with cover scent before I head out. I am still getting used to the fact that people use "store bought" portable stands and climbers.

RE: Outfitters
 

Greydog, most of us use all the items you mentioned. I know I do. To me the difference is that you have to learn to use them as opposed to just putting out food or using an outfitter.Even most conservation departments put out or pay farmers to plant food plots. I think the hard way that's being referred to is finding the land, learning it,scouting for sign, setting up stands, cutting shooting lanes etc. To me that's thefun and exciting part. Getting an animal is icing on the cake. Just to be able to go into an area considered to be the animals living room, doing all the things correctly, for them to not know you're thereis amazing and fulfilling. Especially if I did it the "hard way".:D

Spudrow from MO

RE: Outfitters
 

Lanse couche couche,
There is a world of difference between bow & gun hunting. The need to conceal oneself when gunhunting is dramatically reduced as compared to bowhunting. This is due to the fact that the effective killing range of a gunhunter versus that of a bowhunter is roughly 10x when gun hunting with a rifle. I say "10x" as a general figure based on 30 yards effective killing range for a bowhunter compared to 300 yards for a gunhunter.

This changes the entire landscape of what a bowhunter needs to do in order to get a deer within effective killing range compared to that of what a gunhunter needs to do. No knock to the gunhunters- it's simply a different game.

Rob

RE: Outfitters
 

I hunt with shotgun and slug in Illinois, so you don't see anything near 300 yard shots. The last two deer that i killed would have been within bow range.I knew folks that bowhunted back in the 70s and 80s before all the toys became popular. They did pretty well without all that stuff as well.But, hunters do love their gadgets so over the years people have gotten used to using that stuff to the point that it seems that you have to have it.

RE: Outfitters
 

i use to build my own ladder stands out of wood but they are too heavy to carry 1.5+ miles in the swamp. imo, todays $300 climbing stands are well worth their price once you factor in cost of tools, machinery and time when building your own.

RE: Outfitters
 

Yep, I have tried rattling antlers, grunt and bleat calls. I can't say I have ever shot a deer using any of them. I no longer carry any of them while hunting, yet it has been a good while since I have not taken at least one deer during a hunting season. We don't have tons of deer in the area I hunt either. Doe permits are sometimes not even issued. I have also hunted where feeders were legal (Texas) and they sure DO attract deer better than any grunt or bleat call ever made! I am not saying that one will kill a B&C buck at every sitting near a feeder, but they certainly DO attract deer, turkey's, hogs, and all sorts of other critters. It makes life a lot easier for a hunter, I can assure you. Scents? I have never bought or used any of them. I really don't see any need for them .