RE: hunter education and why it is important
 

Charlie' s absolutely right on this one.

RE: hunter education and why it is important
 

Hunter ed. courses have come along way since the 70' s when I had mine. Back then they were useless 2 hour courses where they gave you the answer on the test. Pitifull! Now they are hours long and you must pass the test on your own plus you must pass at the range. All I can say is Hurrah to the instructors!

RE: hunter education and why it is important
 

dont know where im statisically wrong, since i didnt list any stats but maybe i will get a reply to that.
cody i didnt say i knew everything (but i can tell that i am enjoying greatly my learning expirences) and i think you can hardly say that you will learn everything in a class taught in a building. i havent learned everything about fishing either but i have done that for 15 years or so now. and i dont think we need a fisherman safety course either but i know soembody in the future will require it. you must learn where it is to be applied. i dont think that anyone should be forced to do it. and there is no set of moral scruples that you can list, it is rather a sense of what is right and what is wrong. you see you cant define morals because each individual situation is infinitly more complex than any simple set of standards can determine. almost nothing is black and white, most are shades of gray.

RE: hunter education and why it is important
 

Hunter education is very important, It really does teach people alot. And it is even fun for people who would like to know a little bit more about the sport

RE: hunter education and why it is important
 

propmahn' s. Statistically it is needed. That is where I feel you are wrong, statistically. Based on the reduction in the number of accidents that the course has resulted in, it is obvious that it is needed. There is so much more to being a complete hunter than " having a good head on your shoulders" . How are you going to know the complex trespass laws?

RE: hunter education and why it is important
 

Bowhunter chris make it sound a little too easy here in NJ. The student still must show a degree of marksmanship with the Bow or Gun. He can' t miss every shot or he will fail. The instructors are fair and tolerant and usually give him another chance at the end of the sesion or at another scheduled time. not everyone passes but if you fail you must really deserve it.

RE: hunter education and why it is important
 

i may be mixing politics with hunting here, and maybe thats bad and maybe its not. But i feel that requiring someone to take a class, to do sometihng else is wrong. Undoubtably someone reading this will think " what about drivers tests?" . But i believe tests are different than classes. I compare this hunters ed class to drivers ed. you dont have to take drivers ed to get a license (at least not in indiana). I didnt say i would be opposed to a test (just a test), though im sure about that either really, so i need to think about more. i also think the option of the class is fine.
i just have a problem when people require you to do things because its for " safety" . there is a whole bunch of people who think the same thing about guns, they think lets take them away because its safer. And if it would make us safer why not recquire people to take a gun safety class before they can own a gun. Why not? because it is fundamentally wrong. at least to me.

As for the " complex" tresspassing laws. here they are pretty simple, you cant go over that line unless you have the landowners permission. tell me if im wrong (i hope im not or this is going to shoot my credability and arguement to hell:)). and i can live with that rule anyway, because not everyone will need to worry about such things for varying reasons. oh well, i await your counter-attack (not meant insult but just a metaphor for the little battle that we are fighting a.k.a discussing)

RE: hunter education and why it is important
 

Propmahn, I hope this is not a battle or an argument, but more of a discussion. A question for you. You are deer hunting in your state. On your buddys property. He tells you to go to a stand. The stand is located 75 yards from his property line and there is a house that is located 23 yards on the neighbors property (98 yards from your stand). Can you hunt there? Do you need written or oral permission? Mebbe your state is different, but in mine, the trespass laws become very complex quickly. My state is the same as yours for the most part, if you are hunting posted land you need permission. If it is unposted and agricultural or fenced you need permission. If it is unposted and woods or swamp, you do not need permission (although that is not considered ethical and you will probably get your butt chewed). If your hunting dog chases Mr. Rabbit onto private, posted property, can you retrieve him? With your gun? How about if you whack a big ol' buck and he runs onto the neighboring parcel and it is posted. Do you have to ask permission to track him? What if they say " no" ? Do you have any recourse? These situations are the tip of the iceberg, anybody can come up with a multitude of scenarios. Now you are bound to ask, do every one of my students leave with a perfect knowledge? Heck no, but by going over these types of things, they will more likely realize that they are encountering a situation where they better get the facts before they proceed. In Minnesota, drivers must take a course before they get their drivers license, and I dont mind a bit. A test is good, but you can come up with any 100 questions for the test and I will come up with something that is pretty darn important that is in my class and not among your 100 questions.

The other thing we teach in my class is resources. Lets say boy A only has to take a test and he gets 98 out of 100. Awesome, eh? Well maybe. What if he missed a question like " Can you use a .300 Savage cartridge in a .300 Winchester Magnum?" . He has no clue. Dangerous situation? Now one of my students might miss the same question. But in PRACTICE, he may know you cant do that cuz we harp on it. Or he is just not sure...didn' t that slightly balding instructor say something about mixing cartridges??? We teach them where to find the answers to their questions--the manual that is provided, gunsmiths, etc.

RE: hunter education and why it is important
 

no there are not any hard feelings on this end. but i like to think of debates more like battles because there is more strategy, like trying to corner your opponenet to prove him wrong, which happens maybe if you are lucky 1% of the time. they almost alway win when 1 side has gotten tired of it so now one can declare victory. I like these types of dicusions because without having my opinions tested by others how do i know they are sound.
as for tresspassing and such. I can think of very very few places here in indiana that are not fenced woods and swamp, though i do have swamp like thing next to some of my parents land that i permission to retrieve deer from but not to actively hunt on. most of indiana is farm fields, especailly around me. some woods but they usually are fenced, havent seen one not fenced yet.
Ill be honest i dont know all the answers and i doubt i ever will. the only thing you ever need to know is that answers are only a phone call away. or website (such as this one). for any complicated answer the best course of action would be to call the DNR or talk to a gamewarden. that will get you out of the jam every time, they will tell you what the rules are.
as for the .30 cal question. anybody should know somthing about firearms before using them. so this is not just a hutning question, but when the barrel or action says 99% of the time .300winmag, they should have half a brain and not do it. if they are young they should consult their mentor that has to accompany them into the field anyway.
its getting late and i have to check the rest of the board tonight too so hopefully more tomorrow, plus my typing is getting bad. again waiting the counterattack

RE: hunter education and why it is important
 

you mention that everyone should have a mentor. how many people that you have run across in the woods would you qualify as mentor material? Not many. Thus the importance of FS classes. Not everybody, heck, not many people can have a good, quality mentor. Even some good mentors dont know some of the important things, thus the reason. How do kids know to call a CO? Some kids are fortunate, many are not and do not have the resources available to them.