hunter education and why it is important
 

Hunter education is important for every one because it teaches a person knoledge of the field and what to expect when out hunting. I am from nebraska and our hunter education course is a two day class. the class covers everything from saftey to how to track a deer when it is wounded. i think that young people and older people need a class like this.

Thanks Tommy

RE: hunter education and why it is important
 

My kid already knows about gun safety. Started teaching him how to track when he was about five.

They do have a place but a mentor or a father that hunts is alot better.

RE: hunter education and why it is important
 

Hunting education classes are important, they teach the students important things about handling a gun and other things. They should teach you how to track a wounded deer.

"Pain is weakness leaving the body"

RE: hunter education and why it is important
 

mine was pretty useless except for the simple fact i had to have the little orange card to get my liscense...my dad took it with me even though hes been hunting all his life just to get the little orange card incase he ever wants to go out of the state...he thought it wasa waste of 12 hrs i think it was when we took it..now its 15 or more i dont know what it went up to...i passed the test with eaze and only missed one which was something senseless about how do you help game on your property..i put plant trees and bushes..i guess there was a better answer...i dont even remember anything they covered in the course..i know there wasnt much thats useful..just comon sense stuff..they really should have a good course and teach you more than what most people know..then again i guess if i never touched a gun and never seen a deer or anything i guess it would have all been new to me...and i agree they should teach you kill zones on game and a bit on tracking...

RE: hunter education and why it is important
 

Our courses in New Jersey are pretty short. You can actually take shotgun, muzzleloader and bow all in one day if you wanted to. I think they are all about 2 hours each. You have a video to watch, and a workbook to fill out and that's it. Then your on to your 2 hour field session and on to a final. That's all that there is to it! So, as long as you know enough correct answers to pass the final, your good to go.

RE: hunter education and why it is important
 

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
My kid already knows about gun safety. Started teaching him how to track when he was about five.

They do have a place but a mentor or a father that hunts is alot better.

NO matter how old or how wise the hunter education is still needed to teach the youngster the right and legal saftey tatics.


<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

RE: hunter education and why it is important
 

Having taught the hunter ed program here for many years, I would estimate that some of the ones described above are definitely less valuable than they might have been. The British Columbia course is typically about 30 hours, with lots of hands-on practical stuff. The feedback has always been positive and I have yet to have anyone state they didn't get a great deal out of the course. So, if the content is there, these courses can be very beneficial.

Charlie P, you are probably very particular about how you hunt and what your expectations are of those who accompany you. It's always good to see someone who sets high standards. However, you may be surprised at how many Fathers/Uncles/etc who are mentoring young kids implant all their own bad habits in them. These are the ones who are really hard to turn around and get them doing things in a safe and ethical manner.

RE: hunter education and why it is important
 

Tjpinkel, Why did you include this in my qoute? <BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>NO matter how old or how wise the hunter education is still needed to teach the youngster the right and legal saftey tatics. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote> I never said that, nor do I believe that.

When my son was 11 I went to the PA game site and let him take the test they ahve there. He missd one question,didn't take the course.

On another thread you stated :

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>I took the hunter education course when i was 11 yrs old. I feel that that the hunter education course is a good thing to have because it teaches the a person what to expect in the feild. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

My son knows what to expect in the field because he has been going hunting with me for years now.He has been shooting a bow since he was 5 and shooting guns since he turned 8.The only way to truely know what to do in the field is by being in the field.

Same thing when your coaching kids in sports it's repetition and technique.Doing the same thing over and over until it's second nature.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>If a person would have to go and get a hunter saftey card some of the hunting miss treatment would stop because people probably would appreciate hunting more. And could make the hunting enviroment safer for the young kids trying to get involved. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

Well In NY you have had always had to take a hunter safety course to be able to hunt and there are still plenty of idiots in the woods.

Did you start hunting by yourself or with a parent/mentor?

Canuck2 <BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>However, you may be surprised at how many Fathers/Uncles/etc who are mentoring young kids implant all their own bad habits in them. These are the ones who are really hard to turn around and get them doing things in a safe and ethical manner.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

Your right I was lucky to be brought up in a hunting family that put's safety first. Do you think the kids you get in class keep doing it your way after they get back in the field with their uncles and Dad's?

Last gun season I was out with a buddy of mine and my son he is now 12. We got to the car and my buddy say's to my kid &quot;Hold this for a second, it's unloaded&quot; and hands his gun to my son.First thing my son does is checks the safety and then the chamber to make sure it was unloaded,why? Because that is what he has been taught to do for years now.

Canuck2 I applaud you for taking the time to teach hunter's safety,Thank you. I plan on doing it when my son is done with youth athletics. I volunteer my time with that right now.

RE: hunter education and why it is important
 

CharlieP,
I applaud the way you are teaching your son. However, I believe that a hunter ed course would benefit him greatly. As Canuck2 stated, many times the child picks up the bad habits of the dad/uncle/whatever. I teach hunter ed and that has been my experience as well. None of us are perfect and thus your son can learn from a different point of view. You should attend with your son and you can discuss why something was taught that was different from how you do it. Virtually all of the experienced hunters that go through my classes state that they learned way more than they thought they would. You asked if kids continue to do it the way they are taught after they are in the field with their dad/uncle/etc. I can answer that question and have the facts to back it up. Yes they do. Take a look at any state's accident rate compared to it hunter ed program. There is indisputable evidence it works.

A lot of people on this board continue to say they and their kids are different--they know better than hunter ed program. That is scary. CharlieP, answer me this, statistically speaking, what type of hunter is the most dangerous?

RE: hunter education and why it is important
 

Cody. I am going to take my son to hunter's ed:Even if I didn't have to I still would.Actually I have been looking for one for about a month now and no new ones have been scheduled.He has to have the course to be able to go Turkey hunting this spring and hunt.He has been going with me since the second grade and not shooting. I think your missing my point.

I'm not saying my kid is different.Maybe he is a little differnt, he's been in the woods since before he could walk. I used to carry him in a back pack.Giving your kid a bottle in the middle of the woods is a great experience.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>CharlieP, answer me this, statistically speaking, what type of hunter is the most dangerous? <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote> The one that doesn't treat his weapon like it's loaded at all times.

Let me ask you a question.How many of the kids you get in class already know how to load,unload and shoot safely.Have been shooting a bow for 7 yearsin league's and in the backyard.Have already helped track over 15 deer.Know deer sign and what it means know how to read a topo map and can use a compass?

I am not saying hunter's ed is a waste of time.If I thought it was why would I consider becoming an instructor?

RE: hunter education and why it is important
 

im with charlie P on this one. it is NOT needed, though for someone without a mentor it might be sometihng they want to do. personally i find hunting instictual. i have hunted for 2 years (though the first year was a pretty pathetic attempt, and not full hearted) and if you are a person of good moral scruples, gun safety on the brain then hunting requires no teaching. though i can imagine it would have helped me, to have someone there the first time i cut the deer open. second time was cake though. as for tracking. its simple, as long as you have an eye for it. a decent blood trail is easy, following the tracks as a deer runs thru leaves isnt to hard, follow the leaves that just dont look right. its not needed and no amount of teaching can replace a good head on shoulders

propmahn
save the world, reload your brass

RE: hunter education and why it is important
 

CharlieP, the answer is an experienced turkey hunter (at least in Minnesota). Note the word experienced. That is why it is a great idea for you to attend as well. I cannot emphasize enough the line &quot;You should attend with your son and you can discuss why something was taught that was different from how you do it.&quot;

Propmahn, I dont even know where to start to respond. Statistically you are dead wrong. There is so much to learn and you haven't even scratched the surface if you have been hunting only 2 years (and in your words 1 was a pathetic attempt). You state &quot;good moral scruples&quot;. What do you suppose the answer to the question &quot;what are good moral scruples&quot; would be to a class of 11-13 year olds? I have asked a similar question to each class. MOST (I would guess 80%) cannot define ethics or scruples or morals, let alone understand them. Have you taken a class? Have you taken a good class (admittedly there are some that are not so good, but that doesnt mean the concept is bad)?

RE: hunter education and why it is important
 

Cody, If you had asked me what to do when another hunter approaches while Turkey hunting I would have aced it and so would he.<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> My son knowing what to do is more important then stats. To me knowing what to do in the field is the important thing.I'd much rather he know that he shouldn't even raise his gun until he has identified his target and what is behind it.It's more important to me that he knows to treat every weapon as if it were loaded.I'm not saying I do every thing perfect. I am saying that 7 years of on the job training is more benificial then a ten hour course.This is not meant as a cutdown or insult, it's how I feel.Regrettably every youth doesn't have the oppurtunities that my son has had.

He'll be going to a course as soon as they post some this spring.I'll be sitting right next to him.I'll come back and start a thread after we attend.I have two friends that teach courses like I said I have nothing against Hunters ed.If I didn't volunteer about 600 hours a year to youth sports I'd be involved in teaching them.

I went back and read my first to posts and I may have come across wrong.

So you going to answer my question?
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Let me ask you a question.How many of the kids you get in class already know how to load,unload and shoot safely.Have been shooting a bow for 7 years in league's and in the backyard.Have already helped track over 15 deer.Know deer sign and what it means know how to read a topo map and can use a compass?<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

Propman <BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>im with charlie P on this one. it is NOT needed, <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote> I never intended to imply there not needed.They definately have a place.

RE: hunter education and why it is important
 

CharlieP,
Sorry I took so long to answer, work is a blur right now. To answer your question, I would say approximately 1 out of 25 have that type of experience. So, we could assume 2-4%. But I will also say this, they are generally the hardest ones to correct unsafe behavior in because the almost always come in with an attitude that they know how to do it and are only there because they have to be. I have NEVER had a kid come in that actually did know all of his/her stuff. They may be skilled in some areas (deer hunting, compass and trailing), but be completely unexperienced in others (waterfowl hunting, first aid/hypothermia, blackpowder).

I would think of it this way. You are setting a great foundation for you son and hopefully, a Firearm Safety Course will reinforce what you have already taught and expose him to some things that you personally havent done with your son. Kind of a polish, if you will.

RE: hunter education and why it is important
 

charlie p sorry about the quote that i put with yours. That was my mistake.

I am gald that you are taking your son to a hunter saftey course i hope you two get some new info about hunting that you did not know before.

TO answer you question about me being taught by someone. The answer is no i had to learn most of everything on my own. i do have a father figure in my life but he does not like to hunt as much as i do. When i started to hunt all he told me was to treat the gun as it were loaded at all times. he did not even tell me to take the hunter saftey course. i took the saftey course with one of my good freinds and now my hunting buddy. I am going to take the course again to give myself a better knowledge of hunting beings I had to learn how to hunt myself. I am also going to take the saftey course in a different state so that i can compare. i hope that it will help me in the long run of my hunting.

RE: hunter education and why it is important
 

Tj, If you lived closer to me I'd invite you to come with us. It's tough learning anything on your own.

RE: hunter education and why it is important
 

i know it is it is still hard to understand some things. i know that i am only 19 and have alot to learn but i feel some what comfortable with what i know. And will keep learning as i get older

can you give me some tips on turkey hunting this spring

thank

tj

RE: hunter education and why it is important
 

Highly interesting topic, this.

Charlie P, your dedication to the numerous important aspects of the sport, especially as it pertains to your son, is super. I mentored my own 2 sons similarly and had no tolerance for unsafe behavior. They sometimes thought I was being an unbending jerk, but have come to see the sense of it. They also got a good grounding in a bunch of different related topics - compass work, first aid, tracking, and so on.

Codydawg I couldn't agree more. Everything you say is right on the money. My experience also is that a certain small percent of the youngsters who come through the course do have a good grounding beforehand, and can be a really neat resource for the rest of the class. And one of the reasons why hunter training courses have become mandatory in so many places is because of a huge range of personalities thinking, incorrectly, that they can teach their own children. (I taught my daughter how to drive and she turned out awful; I left the boys' training to somebody that could do the job properly) The standardized courses inject some consistency into what the kids are being taught.

Having said all that, the course is but a short term introduction to a life-long pursuit. I stress to my students that the course is just the beginning of their learning but is intended to provide a proper start. After that, they WILL be influenced by their Fathers, etc. Hopefully it initiates the ability to make proper decisions as they experience the outdoors from then on.

BTW Charlie P, I don't know if all the kids who I relentlessly lectured have embraced all the ways I have taught - but I sure know lots of them have. I've been given good natured ribs by fathers who have been victims of their kids' admonitions.

RE: hunter education and why it is important
 

Tj, I just started Turkey hunting a few years ago. The great thing is my son and I have been learning this sport together. I've killed a few birds but, I'm anything but an expert.


You got mail.

RE: hunter education and why it is important
 

Charlie this will be my second year hunting turkeys and i have not shot anytihng great. thanks for the tips

Tommy

RE: hunter education and why it is important
 

Charlie' s absolutely right on this one.

RE: hunter education and why it is important
 

Hunter ed. courses have come along way since the 70' s when I had mine. Back then they were useless 2 hour courses where they gave you the answer on the test. Pitifull! Now they are hours long and you must pass the test on your own plus you must pass at the range. All I can say is Hurrah to the instructors!

RE: hunter education and why it is important
 

dont know where im statisically wrong, since i didnt list any stats but maybe i will get a reply to that.
cody i didnt say i knew everything (but i can tell that i am enjoying greatly my learning expirences) and i think you can hardly say that you will learn everything in a class taught in a building. i havent learned everything about fishing either but i have done that for 15 years or so now. and i dont think we need a fisherman safety course either but i know soembody in the future will require it. you must learn where it is to be applied. i dont think that anyone should be forced to do it. and there is no set of moral scruples that you can list, it is rather a sense of what is right and what is wrong. you see you cant define morals because each individual situation is infinitly more complex than any simple set of standards can determine. almost nothing is black and white, most are shades of gray.

RE: hunter education and why it is important
 

Hunter education is very important, It really does teach people alot. And it is even fun for people who would like to know a little bit more about the sport

RE: hunter education and why it is important
 

propmahn' s. Statistically it is needed. That is where I feel you are wrong, statistically. Based on the reduction in the number of accidents that the course has resulted in, it is obvious that it is needed. There is so much more to being a complete hunter than " having a good head on your shoulders" . How are you going to know the complex trespass laws?

RE: hunter education and why it is important
 

Bowhunter chris make it sound a little too easy here in NJ. The student still must show a degree of marksmanship with the Bow or Gun. He can' t miss every shot or he will fail. The instructors are fair and tolerant and usually give him another chance at the end of the sesion or at another scheduled time. not everyone passes but if you fail you must really deserve it.

RE: hunter education and why it is important
 

i may be mixing politics with hunting here, and maybe thats bad and maybe its not. But i feel that requiring someone to take a class, to do sometihng else is wrong. Undoubtably someone reading this will think " what about drivers tests?" . But i believe tests are different than classes. I compare this hunters ed class to drivers ed. you dont have to take drivers ed to get a license (at least not in indiana). I didnt say i would be opposed to a test (just a test), though im sure about that either really, so i need to think about more. i also think the option of the class is fine.
i just have a problem when people require you to do things because its for " safety" . there is a whole bunch of people who think the same thing about guns, they think lets take them away because its safer. And if it would make us safer why not recquire people to take a gun safety class before they can own a gun. Why not? because it is fundamentally wrong. at least to me.

As for the " complex" tresspassing laws. here they are pretty simple, you cant go over that line unless you have the landowners permission. tell me if im wrong (i hope im not or this is going to shoot my credability and arguement to hell:)). and i can live with that rule anyway, because not everyone will need to worry about such things for varying reasons. oh well, i await your counter-attack (not meant insult but just a metaphor for the little battle that we are fighting a.k.a discussing)

RE: hunter education and why it is important
 

Propmahn, I hope this is not a battle or an argument, but more of a discussion. A question for you. You are deer hunting in your state. On your buddys property. He tells you to go to a stand. The stand is located 75 yards from his property line and there is a house that is located 23 yards on the neighbors property (98 yards from your stand). Can you hunt there? Do you need written or oral permission? Mebbe your state is different, but in mine, the trespass laws become very complex quickly. My state is the same as yours for the most part, if you are hunting posted land you need permission. If it is unposted and agricultural or fenced you need permission. If it is unposted and woods or swamp, you do not need permission (although that is not considered ethical and you will probably get your butt chewed). If your hunting dog chases Mr. Rabbit onto private, posted property, can you retrieve him? With your gun? How about if you whack a big ol' buck and he runs onto the neighboring parcel and it is posted. Do you have to ask permission to track him? What if they say " no" ? Do you have any recourse? These situations are the tip of the iceberg, anybody can come up with a multitude of scenarios. Now you are bound to ask, do every one of my students leave with a perfect knowledge? Heck no, but by going over these types of things, they will more likely realize that they are encountering a situation where they better get the facts before they proceed. In Minnesota, drivers must take a course before they get their drivers license, and I dont mind a bit. A test is good, but you can come up with any 100 questions for the test and I will come up with something that is pretty darn important that is in my class and not among your 100 questions.

The other thing we teach in my class is resources. Lets say boy A only has to take a test and he gets 98 out of 100. Awesome, eh? Well maybe. What if he missed a question like " Can you use a .300 Savage cartridge in a .300 Winchester Magnum?" . He has no clue. Dangerous situation? Now one of my students might miss the same question. But in PRACTICE, he may know you cant do that cuz we harp on it. Or he is just not sure...didn' t that slightly balding instructor say something about mixing cartridges??? We teach them where to find the answers to their questions--the manual that is provided, gunsmiths, etc.

RE: hunter education and why it is important
 

no there are not any hard feelings on this end. but i like to think of debates more like battles because there is more strategy, like trying to corner your opponenet to prove him wrong, which happens maybe if you are lucky 1% of the time. they almost alway win when 1 side has gotten tired of it so now one can declare victory. I like these types of dicusions because without having my opinions tested by others how do i know they are sound.
as for tresspassing and such. I can think of very very few places here in indiana that are not fenced woods and swamp, though i do have swamp like thing next to some of my parents land that i permission to retrieve deer from but not to actively hunt on. most of indiana is farm fields, especailly around me. some woods but they usually are fenced, havent seen one not fenced yet.
Ill be honest i dont know all the answers and i doubt i ever will. the only thing you ever need to know is that answers are only a phone call away. or website (such as this one). for any complicated answer the best course of action would be to call the DNR or talk to a gamewarden. that will get you out of the jam every time, they will tell you what the rules are.
as for the .30 cal question. anybody should know somthing about firearms before using them. so this is not just a hutning question, but when the barrel or action says 99% of the time .300winmag, they should have half a brain and not do it. if they are young they should consult their mentor that has to accompany them into the field anyway.
its getting late and i have to check the rest of the board tonight too so hopefully more tomorrow, plus my typing is getting bad. again waiting the counterattack

RE: hunter education and why it is important
 

you mention that everyone should have a mentor. how many people that you have run across in the woods would you qualify as mentor material? Not many. Thus the importance of FS classes. Not everybody, heck, not many people can have a good, quality mentor. Even some good mentors dont know some of the important things, thus the reason. How do kids know to call a CO? Some kids are fortunate, many are not and do not have the resources available to them.

RE: hunter education and why it is important
 

I think the answer lies in between prophman and Cody.

It' s more important then Prophman thinks and less important then Cody believes.

I' ll be going with my son on March 16. I' ll give my honest opinion shortly after that.

RE: hunter education and why it is important
 

Hunter ed classes should be required in my opinion and heres why.

First-Some don' t need it and some do cause common sense ain' t very common. Some boys are brought up by mentor or a father who teaches them what they need to know. Whos gonna decide who does and doesn' t need it? Simple answer is require everyone to do it. Don' t like testing out of it for my second point.

Second-Nobody knows everything. So by making a class manditory you make sure to the best of your ability everyone knows all the essentials. It serves as a level because everyone knows that there are rules and everyone knows them. You don' t have to worry as much about Billy Joe Bob on the hill living some sort of mountain law and shooting at you for taking his spot.

Third-You have a bunch of people running around with guns and I feel we do need some sort of safety course primarly for my first point.

My last point is this. I think there is ethics in these courses that are taught and should be taught more. Hunting is some in danger of being ousted and its mainly due to lack of ethics. I don' t care as much if a guy can hit a target constistently at 300 yds or track a deer 5 miles as much as if he has ethics on the hill. We need to be aware of the little things we don' t think of and a class can give us that. What if you shoot an animal and it runs on private property? What do you do? A fight broke put last year because a land owner mistook tracking hunters as trespassers. Last year a guy killed and gutted a moose close to local mountain restaraunt and the story made local headlines, thats great publicity for hunting. People will kill deer and drag them through other peoples driveways. People cut the heads off and leave the rest. They take bad shots and leave wounded animals. These are things that are destroying our image and a class should be manditory to teach these things. In Utah you can no longer hunt the Wasatch Front area bordering Salt Lake City without a special course because of the above reasons.

RE: hunter education and why it is important
 

somebody yell at me when you get back from the class and post on it Charlie P i dont want to miss it. i keep trying to think of a way for us to sort out the people that need it and the people that dont. i cant think of a single way to tell you the truth. though rather_be_hunting brings a good point to my attention that i have overlooked. the image of hunters. this is something i hadnt considered until right now. beginning to think that maybe it is a necessary evil if hunting will survive. Ahhh im losing the battle! i myself have let doubt enter my mind. i still hate the idea of a class, but necessary maybe? i dont know anymore. hopefully ill never have to go to a class but i aint going to let a stupid class stop me from hunting. maybe a lecture on ethics and complicated things and then a quick test accompanied by a book for reading before the class. done and finished in less than 3 hours? i believe i have been defeated. while i dont think most people need it there are a lot of morons out there.

RE: hunter education and why it is important
 

Well my son' s class was last Sunday, he passed with flying colors.

My opinion still hasn' t changed, it has a purpose, but they didn' t teach my som anything that I hadn' t already taught him. The people that taught the class were very professional, and did a great job. Should everyone have to take one? Yes.

Here is something that I found very interesting. A couple DEC officers came in to explain some things about the law. They said it wasn' t the greatest idea, but they had no problem with a father letting his son/daughter shoot a deer and tag it with the adults tag. As long as the kid wasn' t carrying their own gun, they would never ticket the Dad.

RE: hunter education and why it is important
 

thanks for the update. i find the father/son/daughter thing interesting though. i can sort of see why.