I have to agree with Frank about owners, many people think I don't like dogs but in reality I love dogs, I hate irresponsible owners.
That being said we do use dogs, mostly beagles with short little legs but great big lungs, the good ones are always within sight of a pusher and don't make a sound untill they actually see a deer.
Where we hunt the few deer around are lounging in thick wet swamps and won't move if a man walks the edge, we don't have much luck waiting for the deer to come to us so we have to take the hunt to the deer. I think that most anti-dog hunters are in heavily populated areas where you can't get to your stand without tripping over deer, these hunters may change their tune after sitting in a tree for two weeks and never seeing antlers. (Our rifle season rarely coincides with the rut).

You guys don't know how good you have it! You should all see a "drive" N.W, Florida--South Alabama style!!
A "hunting club" consisting of anywhere from 10 to 50 people will cruise dirt roads at first light, or just before, using bumper mounted lights, looking for a fresh track crossing the road.

When a track is found, c.b. and frs radios are used to pass the word. Then all but 2 or 3 of these trucks haul butt to the next road and post at likely crossing places. Each man has a shotgun w/buckshot and a scoped rifle.

The two or three guys who stayed on the track then turn out the dogs. Anywhere from 5 or 6 up to 15 or 20. I have seen a couple of times there were as many as 50 dogs out at once!!

The "hunters" attempt to shoot the deer as it crosses the road, using the noise of the barking dogs to try to predict the exact crossing spot. Think about this. The centerfire rifle is relatively a new thing to these people, having been in general use for deer for only @ 20 years. So, they still space out at shotgun/buckshot range distances. I don't know of anyone being killed yet, but I personally know 3 people who have been shot and survived, and several vehicles that have been ventilated.

If the deer makes it through the gauntlet, they crank up and literally RACE to the supposed "best" crossings on the next road. I have seen several wrecks and injuries at this stage.

If the dogs are too far behind the deer when it crosses the road, they "put a fresh charge on him"-- release more dogs that are not tired. This may go on for several miles and/or several hours. I have seen deer literally staggering from exhaustion, with their toungues actually hanging out!

If one of these yahoos actually kills a deer, it gets flung on top of the dog box and hauled around in the sun the rest of the day. This is the only time the beer cooler is removed from the place of honor.

Sometimes they stop hunting deer in the mid-afternoon to start rounding up dogs, sometimes they wait until dark. If the moon is up and bright, they may go longer.

When they finally get around to cleaning the deer, the tradition is the one who kills it gets the head, the hide and a hindquarter; the rest is evenly divided among all other participants. Most times the meat is left to just a very few, the rest say they don't want any, they don't eat deer meat!! Talk about wild taste!! Just think of the lactic acid and adrenalin buildup in the muscles after running 2-3-4-5 miles, then the added "ripening" of the sun for several hours. I wouldn't eat it either!!

Of course you know that people with this much respect for the game, have just as much for adjoining landowners and the driving public on the roads! And every one of them has personally taught his dogs to read and obey "POSTED" signs!

Yes, it is legal in these areas to hunt deer with dogs. No, it is not legal to do it in this manner. No, not all hunters in these areas use these tactics. But the ones who do are the ones visible to the public. They don't see the legal hunters who stay off the roads.

Every time someone approaches the Fish and Game Comm. about doing something about it they cry the usual crocodile tears--They have done it this way all their lives; even if we do ticket them, they won't stop; we have to actually SEE them break the law to do anything about it, but we can't spare a man to hide and watch;etc., etc. I heard of one warden who pushed it and got fired for rocking the boat.

I was never so glad to leave a place in my life!! If i didn't have family there, I would NEVER go back between Halloween and St. Valentine's day!


Just remember, I'm not saying all who hunt using the "drive" method, with or without dogs, are bad people. I have done both in the past, and probably will again in the future. I am telling you what I have actually seen with my own eyes! Any suggestions I could pass on to my friends and family back there to try to get this stopped?

I originally posted this on the BB at another site, copied and edited here.

Wingnut if they are not using buckshot with dogs here in Alabama they are breaking the law.

Yes I have seen this kind of activity before. Picture 20 to 30 vehicles on the side of the road. Old ladies, kids, the works. Wild Turkey and Jack Daniels bottles proudly displyed on top of the truck, tool box, or dog box. One guy had some kind of telescopic deal in the bed of his truck with one of those fiberglass fishing boat seats on top. Hell I guess thats a stand. If a deer does get flushed across such said bunch of yahoos how do you determine who killed it and gets what left?

I don't hunt with dogs but I also don't have a problem with people hunting with dogs. The problem is as with any type of hunting the slob element. I can well see why it is more popular done here. Where I hunt at it is common to be within 30 FEET of a deer before either party (deer or hunter) makes the other. Some of this stuff is so thick I swear the squirrels use trails.

Taz: you realy stired the bucket this time again.
yes I hunt with dogs and realy enjoy it.not like wingnut said though.we have a good time,if a bottle or beer comes out that person no longer hunts with us.not just that day but NO LONGER.we have a club with about 30 squar miles to hunt.we try to stop our dogs befor they cross and boundry.
it is a southern thing and yes I have hunted this way sinse I was about 8 years old,damn thats been a long time,lol.
there is always a bad apple in every barrell.
enjoy what you like as long as it is legal.


I am not a hunter I am a whitetail population reduction specialest

remember keep your back to the sun, your knife sharp, and your powder dry.

Excellent responses so far, I totally agree there are some real slobs that hunt with dogs, my uncle and the GW shut one of these clubs down years ago (70's), they actually sent the three club owners to jail and confiscated thier guns and trucks. As others have stated there are good and bad dog hunters out there. I do not hunt with dogs anymore, I have not done so in over 20 years and probably never will again, but done properly by ethical hunters it is a great form of deer hunting.

I have yet to see anyone reply to this that is ANTI deer hunting with dogs that has hunted rabbit or birds with dogs and come up with an explanation of the difference ethically between the two.

The Tazman

Wingnuts scenario is what I despise. What I also despise is hunting on public land when all of a sudden hounds come through and mess everything up and some yahoo comes along and says: "Ya seen anything? I'm out looking for my dogs." I don't agree with running deer with dogs, but I won't bash folks who do it legally.

I dog hunted for deer in Alabama for about 30 years and thoroughly loved it. If we were still able to lease enough land to dog hunt I would still be doing it. The majority of the paper companies have ceased leasing land to dog hunting clubs and when all of them do the majority of the dog hunting clubs will be finished. While it is true that there are some clubs that illegally hunt, drink and run all over the place the same can be said of still hunters that tresspass, bait, night hunt and participate in other illegal hunting activities. The actions of a few slobs have painted a method of hunting in a negative light.

If you have a continuous 30 square mile tract of land to hunt, then use dogs if you want. This is a real touchy subject here in SC now. The DNR is passing new regulations and many think “dog drives” will be outlawed in the near future. I, for one, can’t wait. A few places I hunt have a “shoot on site” mentality about dogs. I won’t say whether I have or haven’t since it is illegal to shoot them, but make sure you get rid of the radio-tracking collars. Many, Many times I’ve had hunts ruined by dogs and if an area is constantly pressured with them the deer will leave. It happened this year to one of our best spots, a place that used to almost guarantee at least seeing deer. Half way through the season the deer virtually disappeared. A bunch of slobs, leasing the adjoining land, that couldn’t get out of bed before sunrise to hunt, started getting buddies with dogs to come in. If you can’t keep your dogs on your own property don’t expect them to ever get home. Let me reiterate a point though, if you have a LARGE enough track of land then by all means have fun “dog driving”. Other wards I would like to see the “drivers” prosecuted for poaching if the dog leaves their land. If the “driver” comes on my land and shoots a deer it’s poaching and I don’t see any difference if their dog does, poaching is poaching my book.


Tazman,
In answer to your question, I’ve hunted Quail with dogs. I personally don’t see it as an ethics question. Bird hunters keep control of their dogs, they have to, while to many “dog drivers” let their dogs run all over the county. With me it is a trespass and poaching issue, not ethics.


Edited by - mello_collins on 01/18/2002 09:22:00

Edited by - mello_collins on 01/18/2002 09:22:40

mello I know very well what you mean about slob dog hunters, and I totally agree it is trespassing in my book to let the dogs loose on someone elses property that they do not have permission to run them on. There are a lot of good dog clubs in Va. that work very hard to not upset land owners by keeping thier dogs in check. Unfortunantly the dog hunters the majority of us are familiar with are the ones that are slobs, releasing thier dogs on places they shouldn't and not picking them up at the end of the drive, but letting them move on where ever the deer may be headed in the hopes they will run the deer back to them.

To be honest with you I will not shed a single tear when they ban dog hunting deer in Va. In a weird way though it will be a lose to hunting traditions that have been practiced for years here for a lot of good hunters. There are a lot of life long hunters that have no idea how to deer hunt without dogs and many of them will simply quit rather than put forth the time and effort hunters like myself put forth to beat the deer at thier own game. It is a shame that due to a minority of slob dog hunters the good ones will lose out on a lifetime tradition though. A dog is and has been a great aide to many a deer hunter, but due to a lot of their owners being dirtbags the good dog hunters will die along with the tradition.

The Tazman

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