Out of control!!
 

Alright, there is a guy here in midwestern Indiana that moved from Indianapolis to a farm he bought that is around 300 acres. Most of it is some of the most beutifull, prestine forest around these parts with mature oak ridges full of deer and turkeys , big deer and turkeys. Well this piece of s%#@ has made it all into a place where anyone and everyone can come and ride there dirt bikes and four wheelers. Its not that I dont like going on trail rides every once in awhile, but this guy dosnt have any organized trails or boundries or anything. The people ride where ever they want and they have only been doing this for about two weeks and have raped the forest where ever they can get there atv's. Does this sound rediculous to anyone else. Another thing that ticks me off is that the people rideing dont have any respect to the peoples property off of his and are tearing up other people fields and woods and everyone in this area are fed up and we had a meeting about shutting this guy down and he said that we cant do nothing about it because he has more money than he knows what to do with and he has the best lawyer around and we dont have a chance of stopping him. This monday there are about 35 to 40 people going into court agaist this guy. Is there realy a possibility that he is going to stay in busyness? If he only knew how lucky he is to beable to own such an awsome property. Breaks my heart, and pisses me off at the same time!

RE: Out of control!!
 

Good luck, Unforunatly you probably won't get much done in court except the issue of his "group" riding on other people's property. That you should be able to stop but, do it in a lawful manner. Money doesn't equal brains, I guess it's his property and he's entitled to do as he pleases as long as he breaks no laws. And that sucks for you and your fellow land owners. Somewhere here on this site in someones signiture line or somewhere I seen the quote "You can't fix stupid". I'm interested in your outcome so please let us know what happens. Again, Good Luck

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Unless there is a noise ordinance it doesn't sound good. Are there any streams of any size that they ride through? If so the DEP and CORPS can make life miserable for a long time. There may be county or some sort of state water management laws also. As to the riding on other people's property, on the boundary in their trails take sawed off metal fence post (or other similar metal pieces, maybe rebar) and drive them about 4 inches above the ground and try to sharpen them a little, it won't take much with those soft 4 wheeler tires. Then cover them with some leaves.

RE: Out of control!!
 

I went to school with a boy named Doug, he was the nicest kid you ever wanted to meet. His whole family was good people.

Doug worked in the drilling rigs and didn't have a lot of money when he started out - but he did not want to move far from his dad's house.

He found a neighbor 1 mile down the road that had a piece of woods that was willing to sell it to him for a price that he could afford.

The woman that sold him the land owned a large farm - aprox 200 acres with nice corn fields and hay fields and pastures for their cows - aprox 50 along with 10 prize bulls.

Then the womans husband died - just 3 weeks after they bought a $750,000 combine. It was a story right out of the bible. One day they had more money and more crops than what they knew what to do with and the next day he was dead and they were in serious financial difficulties.

When they sold Doug the small piece of land, they also promised him that if they ever sold the piece of land across the road from his Mobile home that he would be the first in line to be able to purchase it.

Well the woman was desperate for money and she sold the land to a complete stranger. She sold all the cows and all the bulls and all the farm equpt except for the new combine and a old tractor and haybine and bailer. The barns, the milking parlors - everything.

Well the new neighbor built a nice house. built a nice pond for fishing.

Then his kids turned about 10 years old and he built the most awesome motorcross course you ever saw. Just like what you see on tv with the kids jumping 60 feet into the air and riding 100 miles an hour around a course 1/2 mile long.

Only good thing that came out of it all was that the kids grew up and had to move away from home to go to college and to get a good paying job because there is nothing here for them.

The house and the pond and the motorcross course is still there - but nobody rides on it.

Our neighbors are just as ignorant up at our camp.

It got so bad that one day I chased them with my brand new Silverado - 60 miles a hour down a primitive trail barely wide enough for a motorcycle.

Their parents asked them if they were down at the camp tearing the place up and they admitted that they were.

I asked for permission to drive across their fields - and they told me that they do not allow no one to drive across their fields.

I then asked them what is the difference between me driving across their fields and their kids driving where ever they wanted across our property - especially riding their 4 wheelers in our trout pond.

The parents didn't know what to say.

I got permission to drive across their access road at the end of the field for one hunting season and the next year they installed a gate and posted signs.

I should have had the little s O b 's arrested for tresspassing and made them pay a couple of thousand dollars in property damage.

Your only option is to catch the people riding across private property with trail cams and a video camera and have them arrested.

Then go into court with about 40 hours of dirt bikes reving up their motors and get them for disturbing the peace and harassment.

Other than that - all I can say is that townies should stay in towns.

If your idea was to move to the country to get away from the city people and when you got there - you wanted to bring your city ways with you - you are not my favorite type of person. Because I do not have the money to go out and buy a couple of hundred acres to keep you away from me and I do not want to put up with your kids and their dirt bikes and all the noise and animals and b's that a landowner has to put up with because people think that when you are neighbors that they can do what ever they want.

Do I sound like you - YEP!

RE: Out of control!!
 

One guy on another forum came up with a good answer.

Put up some signs on your property - no tresspassing - rifle range.

Then put up some back stops and some targets on your property - around where the 4 wheelers like to ride.

Then when you see them coming, give them one verbal warning.

The next time - let loose with a 50 BMG at the targets and see how long the kids with the 4 wheelers and the dirt bikes stay around.

Instant remedy forignorant people - scare the chit out of them.

They will not come back!

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Amen!

RE: Out of control!!
 

Sounds like it's time to call the WAAAAAAAAmbulance...Its his property and as long as he isn't breaking the law too bad. This is still America isn't it????

RE: Out of control!!
 

What part of the fact that the landowner's guests are tresspassing and damaging his neighbors' land did you not understand?

I'd give it the old college try a time or two in terms of dealng with this guy legally. Then its time to buy about 10 pounds of roofing nails.

RE: Out of control!!
 

The way I read it he had two arguments:
1. some rich guy bought the best land around and is allowing people to "rape"it with atv's.
2. some of rich guy's guests aren't staying on rich guys land.
On point #1 he is probably SOL, rich guy's land he can do what he wants with it. This is what I was commenting about. Rich Guy could bulldoze every tree on the place and turn it into a parking lot if he wanted to.
I own a couple hundred acres that is bordered on two sides by a hunting club. Some of the clubs members decided that they needed to put their stands about 2 ft from my property fence. I asked them to move and they refused, nothing I could do. Now my horses LOVE country music, so every morning, usually only Oct-Dec I drive the fence lines and let my horses listen to Willie's Place. They love it, makes the grass digest so much easier. My point is: it's my property and I will do as I please as long as I'm not breaking the law. Neighbors can whine all they want.

RE: Out of control!!
 

The rifle range idea is pretty good. Or anything you can do to be the 'CRAZY NEIGHBOR GUY' would probably be real fun.

And I doubt that the area's best lawyer could be better than documented proof of tresspassing.

IFyou are going to do the spike in the ground or roofing nail trick, make sure to do it very inconspicuous. The best tricks are the ones where you aren't to blame.:DHave your fun, and yes, it is fun, but you don't want to start battles with the guy.

RE: Out of control!!
 

Oh look!! I found another thread on ethics, or lack thereof. If you got a bad neighbor stake the ground or use nails, a rifle range with his land and possibly people beyond it, real nice. Do what you can in coordination with your local law enforcementin regards to the trespassing and possible property damage(and I would only do that after talking to the guy, which it sounds like you have done), but if you do anythingother than that you might just start a long term neighbor battle which is always fun ;).

RE: Out of control!!
 

ATV's have a place - it's on farms and large tracts of land where foot/truck access is limited.

Around here, we have reliefer scumbags who dress like Fred Sanford (on a good day) and send their kids to school looking like mountain militia refugee campers. These people live in trailers on 100'x100' rental lots, drive 1982 rustbuckets, but they somehow manage to have $6000 Bombardiers and Polarises that they like to get drunk and drive all over everyone else's property.

We even have a few gems who have lost their licenses (DUI) and purchased quads to drive (trespass) the whole way to work, and cause the landowners to wallpaper their property with POSTED signs and cost me my hunting spots.

Meanwhile, some poor schlep that owns the local golf course is stuckrepairing $20,000 worth ofdamage to his greens because some trashbag decided that it would be fun to jacklight a few deer anddo donutsall over the greens on the back nine at 3 o'clock in the morning.

Seriously, they need to pass a law that requires people to show that they have somewhere to actually RIDE the quad before they buy it. A patch-hunkie with a yard the size of a postage stamp really has no business owning a 550cc 4x4 ATV.

I feel much better now, having vented a little.

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Same deal in my area. People who are living on foodstamps will shell out thousands for a 4-wheeler, then come and tresspass on parkland next to my neighborhood and speed up and down the streets.

Its too bad that some folks with 4-wheelers ruin it for everybody. There is a group of about 10 kids (late teens and early 20s) who ride all over the main roads by my dad's place. They also like to run their 4-wheelers up and down a gravel pile across the road from a young mennonite couple late at night. I caught them at it one night and when they came down the road toward me, I drove my truck right down the middle of the road and forced them all to the shoulder. The sad thing is that when folks like that tresspass on property and cause damage, it often gets blamed on all hunters.

RE: Out of control!!
 

I would pursue the heck out of the potential trespassing charges but that's about all you can do. Unless this guy's running a business on land that's not zoned commercially of course??? Then you might have something. Sadly it is his land to destroy. But a lot of good comes along with that right. It also gives you the right to buy your own land and create your own hunting sanctuary.

I ditto becoming the crazy neighbor guy but not to the point of obsession or where it consumes you. Just have some fun with it. You can walk around in camo fatigues with your remington and night vision goggles and an aluminum foil hat you claim keeps the government brain waves out.

I would put up all sorts of threatening signs regarding what will happen to trespassers and survivorsand run barbwire all along the border of the land. At least make it somewhat visually deterring and painful for them to enter your own land.

RE: Out of control!!
 

chucker34


I ditto becoming the crazy neighbor guy but not to the point of obsession or where it consumes you. Just have some fun with it. You can walk around in camo fatigues with your remington and night vision goggles and an aluminum foil hat you claim keeps the government brain waves out.


[/quote] Now that's some funny stuff, may have to try it.

RE: Out of control!!
 

Use of neighboring land is obvious = trespassing. But a lot of trespassing laws require posting or warning before prosecution, so check on that and do what you need to do first. You should also be able to recover for actual damage done to your land. Some states have laws giving double or triple damage for things like willful timber damage.

As for use of his land, there are only about 2 approaches: (1) noise ordinance: I have seen that work where a dirt track was put in next to a horse farm (for racing), and it was ruining the horses, (2) environmental issues: If he is digging ditches, filling in streams, etc. then he may be violating certain Corps. of Engineers wetlands law (like 404 permits you need to build a neighborhood on land classified as wetlands). It doesn't take too much for land to meet wetland, but you will at least need some kind of water moving through there.

Filing suit could get expensive. So at a minimum I would pursue the trespassing thing first. If he violates it you could get an injunction, and then have the trespassers arrested.

Good luck.

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You could start building a barb wire fence down your property line. Put in the posts and then put in the first strand of wire at about3.5 feet. Leave it that way for awhile. Only one four wheeler will hit it. The rest will get the message.

Oh, our place does have a real rifle range on it, to 150 yards, soon to be extended to 200 yards. The place is posted.

RE: Out of control!!
 

It's his property and he can do what he wants with it - as long he's within the existing laws. Passing a new "law" really will not do anything because he would most likely be "grandfathered" in.

Just because you see some other, different and grand hunting scenerio for his proprerty doesn't mean squat.

If he decides to build a house there - does he have to consult with you as to the size,design and colors?

Should he have to consult with you as to the size of the ATVs he allows to run on his property? If it is alright with you - can he run 2WD & (heaven forbid) 4WD ATV's on his property?

Maybe this guy indeed does have other property (or properties) that he deems as better for hunting and he hunts there along with (if it's OK with you) some other friends or relatives.

I mean if you really have your undies in such a twist and insist in getting your self into his business - why not start by you paying his property taxes? Or better yet - buy the place from him outright. You can be the little local branch of the Autobohn Society.

It is indeed very hard to find nice pieces of land to ATV on and this guy allowing everyone to use free of charge it is quite generous IMO. He might want to post some signs or set a fence (pretty costly) to tell the riders to respect the neighbors properties. But in defense of the property lines - maybe they are notclear.

Why not just make the best of the situation and get yourself an ATV and enjoy the property. While you are there riding you can subtly remind less thoughtful riders of respecting the neighbors property.

RE: Out of control!!
 

This exact thing happened here in the town I livein and it cost the fence owner $1.5 million in damages when a kid (trespassing) hit the wire and caused severe lacerations to his face. The owner also had a grand jury indictment for criminal negligence. I don't understand some of your reasoning behind your comments, it's actions like this that tarnish the public's view of hunters.

RE: Out of control!!
 

Uncle Matt, I agree wholeheartedly. Two developers from the Twin Cities had grand plans of building 43 houses on 50 acres of a nearby rural Minnesota parcel that adjoined a lake. They planned to put in a marina with 30 plus slips on a 400 acre lake. The outcry from the community was loud and clear. But so was the county commissioner who snidely told the group of concerned citizens "There's a simple solution. Buy the land otherwise you're wasting you're time."

Although I knew he was right legally, I stood up and said that was the most a--anine, stuck-up and arrogant thing I had ever heard an elected official utter. The message was loud and clear - money solves the problem. We shouldn't debate whether or not that's too many houses in a shoreland district and the environmental impact it would have. We should just buy the land and let the laws lie where they were. No sense in changing things for the better. Just get out your checkbook.

BTW, in our case, the developers backed off and planned half that many houses and one dock with a dozen slips, which is probably what they had intended all along. But you have to shoot for the moon to land among the stars as they say. I'd doubt the author of this post could get that far with the guy he's describing.

RE: Out of control!!
 

bucked off,

I Agree. Setting a "death trap" for someone is not only morally reprehensible, it could bring one hell of a lawsuit or even criminal charges.

If you do put up a fence, just put up a standard fence that you would normally put up, none of this razor wires, punji sticks, holes in the ground with tigers in them, etc.

RE: Out of control!!
 

Quiksilver - I have to disagree to your use of ATVs. Why can't they be used for recreational purposes? That in fact is the single biggest reason by far for the average owner.

RE: Out of control!!
 

I think you should plant some reefer plants on his property then call the cops on him.....that works every time:D

RE: Out of control!!
 

Some people like to hunt, some people like to ride dirtbikes. You don't have much right to be mad about it, unless I'm just reading it wrong.

RE: Out of control!!
 

Let's stick with the facts as presented here guys. He says the ATV riders are tearing up and trespassing on neighbors property.

Not once did he state "my property" - did he?

I believe we are dealing with someone who has no other stake in this but his own feelings of, "Boy I sure would like to have been deer hunting there!"

The alleged damage to the actual property? How does he know it is so damaged? Did he get actual permission to be on the land to see for himself? Or is he just going by what others (who were or were not on the property) tell him? If indeed the guy has an open door policy for anyone and everyone - fine.

Now about the alleged damages to neighboring properties. If these properties do not allow trespass - how do you know all about those properties? How did you access them to verify the damges as alleged?

Well I can't address this much more right now. I have to go down to the courthouse and file suit against the neighbor. I have joined with a group of neighbors and we are going before the grand jury. It seems the guy next door has taken it upon himself to change the colors of his house. It was white withmedium gray shingles. Without any consultation with any of us he had the white siding replaced with a light brown and tore off the gray shingles and put up dark brown. And just to throw salt in our eyes - he has planted a rose garden around his front covered porch when the general concensus here is that we mostly prefer tulips! Again he did not consult or discuss these flowers with any of us.

But he'll see! He'll get what's coming to him! We're lawyering up!

And we must have a good solid case here! The law firmtook our money and agreed to take the case with no arguement or anything. That'a always a real good sign of the strength of any case. (I know this for fact. I have seen all of the Perry Mason episodes and am a big, big fan of Judge Wapner and The Peoples Court - so if anyone should know it would be me, right?).

The nerve of some people! Just doing what they want with the property that they bought and paid for with money they worked for!

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"I don't understand some of your reasoning behind your comments, it's actions like this that tarnish the public's view of hunters."

Hunter, my butt. Hey, fella, i own the damn place and it is posted. i do not live in some eastern Peoples Demokratic Republik. Iarrested a scumbag at gun point who cut my fence repeatedly and was on MYplaceillegally. The county sherifffound that they guy had wants and warrants in TX and arrested him.Still have the Polaris after three years.

RE: Out of control!!
 

"If you do put up a fence, just put up a standard fence"

In Ok a barbed wire fence is a "standard" fence.

RE: Out of control!!
 

falcon,

I realize a 3 or 4 strand barbed wire fence might be standard.
I was responding to the suggestion that you put up one strand at 3.5 feet and wait for someone to get decapitated by it on a 4 wheeler.
Even though I'm sure that was meant as a joke, I didn't want anyone to feel encouraged to actually try something like that.

I tried to address your question. I think you have every right to stop people from trespassing on your property.

RE: Out of control!!
 

That is precisely the problem, Matt. Most ATV owners DO use them for recreational purposes. Problem is, most ATV owners don't own enough land to fulfill their own recreational needs. So instead, they just feel inclined to use other peoples' property as their own personal playground.

RE: Out of control!!
 

As a landowner i can attest to the fact that we don't have as much freedom to do what we want with our own land as we sometimes would like to think. Furthermore, there can sometimes be a big difference between exercising one's rights of ownership and being a first class poopie head. You may do things that are well within your rights, but royally piss off everyone around you. When/if something bad happens to you or your property, you are much less likely to get help or sympathy.

Also some of the most flagrant examples of tresspassing that I am personally aware of have been committed by large landowners who essentially think that they are above the law. So, land ownership doesn't make one a saint who is always victimized by the landless.

If this guy is actually doing all the things that the poster claims, there may actually may be many legal actions that can be taken to give him an attitude adjustment. For example, as some folks have stated, in many instances, you DO NOT have the right to turn your property into a big off road track if you are damaging a watershed and/or causing soil erosion, especially if the damage carries over to neighborhing properties.

RE: Out of control!!
 

If hes on his land, why be such a crabby little old lady? If hes crossing my land and getting all snooty about it,id just catch him alone every chance i got and beat the snot out of him.There comes a time when thats what it takes,and who is to say you werent in fear for your life on that dark lonely street.Self defense is still legal here in Wi.

RE: Out of control!!
 

No, see that is where you are wrong. If it is MY property, as some people have argued, I can build a parking lot or whatever the hell I want (staying within zoning laws), because it is MINE. The same thing goes for a one-stranded 3.5 ft tall fence. Its mine, and no one should be on my property that I don't know about, and the people I give access will know about the fence. How can you say that I can't build a fence with one strand on it but I can build anything else?? They broke the law by being there, it is their fault. Are you saying that if someone trespasses on my property and drowns in my pond, I should be sued for having a pond? Its the reasoning of the lawyers who represented those little punks in your town that are tarnishing America; not the actions of the farmer that are tarnishing hunters.

RE: Out of control!!
 

"How can you say that I can't build a fence with one strand on it but I can build anything else?? They broke the law by being there, it is their fault. Are you saying that if someone trespasses on my property and drowns in my pond, I should be sued for having a pond? Its the reasoning of the lawyers who represented those little punks in your town that are tarnishing America; not the actions of the farmer that are tarnishing hunters."

Bingo!!!Any trespassing idiot should be able to see the fence posts and to anticipate barbed wire. We really do have a rifle range on our place. We use it infrequently, especially in deer season.

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I would think the problem could arise when said trespassing idiot hits this single strand barbed wire coming "from" property he or she has permission to be on, not being aware of the presence of the single strand. I could see how the fence owner could be held liable.[:'(]

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The 50 BMG idea is great. It will work!! Just wish I was there to hear it and see them dump a load !!

RE: Out of control!!
 

I was a little fired up earlier, I just want to make it clear that while I will do what I want with my land, if I find someone trespassing they will be warned verbally first. I won't just build the 3.5 ft high barbed wire fence the day after I establish their traveling routes on my land. Down where I'm from thats usually all it takes, but don't tell me I can't build that 3.5 ft high one strand barbed wire fence. If it pleases me, I can build all of them that I want.

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Build all the fence you want, just remember that you CAN be held liable if someone is hurt.

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Building a fence with the sole intent toinjure anotherperson , is just plain wrong. A fence should be built to deter not injure. Your looking for bad karma building that type of fence.

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I don't doubt that, or what you are saying. I'm just pointing out that I shouldn't be able to be held liable. Party X broke the law by being on MY land, and I have the right to build whatever I want within zoning laws on MY land. Again, I agree, a lawyer will find me liable, but that is what is wrong with the "system." It's like the guy that broke into a person's house and cut hisself on one of their knives and then sued the owners of the house - what kind of world do we live in that allows for things like that to happen?

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ChrisAU,

Those burglary cases where they sue the homeowner are absolutely ridiculous and very rare, and that is why they make national news.

Just like that stupid McDonald's coffee burning the old lady. That was one crazy jury that gave the lady one day of McDonald's profit off of coffee (which happened to be a lot of $$$). It is cases like that that make people think they found gold when they slip and fall.

I hear you on being able to do what you want with your property, but I think everyone is saying that the lawyer will have an easy time making you look really bad (some kid, with nice parents and his preacher sitting in the courtroom, was riding his 4 wheeler and going fast and didn't realize where he was or that he was trespassing. You will be asked, "what did you think would happen if someone drove through there?").

This is very similar to the debate about spring guns (set them up at businesses to shoot a burglar breaking in). I used to think people should be able to do that. But if you think about it, do we want to encourage people to set up death traps? There have been a few cases where innocent people (like an employee who forgot his key) was shot by one. They will prosecute you for a spring gun, not b/c they think the burglar is so noble, but b/c we don't want to encourage vigilante justice.