Letting Young Kids Kill Deer: Is It Right?
01-06-2003, 11:06 PM
#51
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Sheridan AR USA
Posts: 73
RE: Letting Young Kids Kill Deer: Is It Right?
Codydawg, the voice of reason has spoken. You have expressed my feelings exactly and the reason I started this topic. Most everyone who has posted here (and parents in general) think their kids are different than the norm, that is, more knowledgable, ethical, etc. This has not been my experience at all. I will not go into all the stories, but let me say that my experiences with young kids carrying guns and hunting has not been good, even with parental supervision (just this year, unsafe shooting by an 8 year old and illegal deer killed by a 13 year old). Kids are much more prone to do dumber things than adults, that is simply a fact and a result of their immaturity. I'm sorry, I just don't buy that everyone's kids are smarter and safer than most adult hunters. Lots of people on here have said something to that effect and I do not believe it. If it is true, then they must be hunting around some pretty sorry adults.
In the state I hunt, kids under 16 DO NOT have to pass a hunter education class to hunt!! What the he** is the reasoning behind that? They are too young to take a class about hunting and safety, but old enough to carry a high powered rifle into the woods and fire away? I think a lot of parents check their brain at the door when it comes to hunting and their children. There have been a lot of good points made here. I especially like the idea that the level of hunting should be tied to the kid's maturity level, as judged by their parent. But please parents, remember, they are still kids. We don't let them drive, drink, vote, or a host of other things. Teach your kid to hunt, not just to shoot.
In the state I hunt, kids under 16 DO NOT have to pass a hunter education class to hunt!! What the he** is the reasoning behind that? They are too young to take a class about hunting and safety, but old enough to carry a high powered rifle into the woods and fire away? I think a lot of parents check their brain at the door when it comes to hunting and their children. There have been a lot of good points made here. I especially like the idea that the level of hunting should be tied to the kid's maturity level, as judged by their parent. But please parents, remember, they are still kids. We don't let them drive, drink, vote, or a host of other things. Teach your kid to hunt, not just to shoot.
01-07-2003, 09:58 PM
#52
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Gleason, TN
Posts: 1,327
RE: Letting Young Kids Kill Deer: Is It Right?
Codydawg, I agree 100%.
I help teach the hunter safety class here every week. Most the people we have are between 10-14 years of age. Most can't fully understand exactly what they are learning about. I've even taken my brother's kids with me hunting a few times. They carried thier BB guns and I carried my 06. My sister in law asked them one time what they would do if they saw a deer when hunting to which little Robbie replied (in a slow deep southern accent) "I'll kill him till he DIES from it!"
It was funny at the time. They are about 6 now. They don't understand game laws, ethics, effective range, or have any appriciation for a deer's life or scences. Like the time we saw a deer and they tried to call it to us like you would call a dog..."Here deer deer deer deer deer deer deer! Here deer! Why is he running? Bad deer! Come here!" That was funny too. They just don't understand yet. But you got to start somewhere.
"Hey ya'll, watch this"
I help teach the hunter safety class here every week. Most the people we have are between 10-14 years of age. Most can't fully understand exactly what they are learning about. I've even taken my brother's kids with me hunting a few times. They carried thier BB guns and I carried my 06. My sister in law asked them one time what they would do if they saw a deer when hunting to which little Robbie replied (in a slow deep southern accent) "I'll kill him till he DIES from it!"
It was funny at the time. They are about 6 now. They don't understand game laws, ethics, effective range, or have any appriciation for a deer's life or scences. Like the time we saw a deer and they tried to call it to us like you would call a dog..."Here deer deer deer deer deer deer deer! Here deer! Why is he running? Bad deer! Come here!" That was funny too. They just don't understand yet. But you got to start somewhere.
"Hey ya'll, watch this"
01-09-2003, 04:19 PM
#53
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Andover MN USA
Posts: 98
RE: Letting Young Kids Kill Deer: Is It Right?
I am a little surprised that more people havent responded disagreeing with my post and kgkoon and kodiakhuntmaster's thoughts. Mebbe it hit a little too close to home?
01-09-2003, 10:30 PM
#55
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: A shack in Arkansas
Posts: 2,029
RE: Letting Young Kids Kill Deer: Is It Right?
codydawg oh i agree with your post. and yes i said my son is more responsible than most adults and shoots better than most it is true and i would put money on that and i don't ever gamble.
BUT i have worked with him. my creditionals? a certified firearms instructor through the arkansas law enforcement commission. i don't instruct other people cause i don't want to .
anyway i have seen the other kids . for instance this year i had a member who i found was letting his thirteen year old basically conduct target practice on deer trying to get one. the kid can't shoot cause his daddy hasn't spent the time working with him. MAD? sh** that ain't the word for it!And what burns me is i let them sit on my stand and the kid shot at several deer. two later found that he hit and the coyotes ate good. i had a rule that noone hunts my stand , i broke once but never again!!!
My son shot four times from that stand and killed four deer! one is on video tape for him. the one i would have liked to tape was his last on the final day. he broke her back at about 150 yards with a 243 and the deer just laid down and never moved!!! i didnt see it cause i wasnt with him , but it was very apperent.
so i have seen both what you describe and my boy. and i have seen a lot of other good kids and some that just need someone to work with them. kids are all different due to different home lives, experiences, and parents that know how and want to parent.
heck thats kind of the same for adults!
I know of a few adult hunters that i won't be accepting dues from next year!
Oh i guess i have spoke enough bye!
SOUTH ARKANSAS REBEL
BUT i have worked with him. my creditionals? a certified firearms instructor through the arkansas law enforcement commission. i don't instruct other people cause i don't want to .
anyway i have seen the other kids . for instance this year i had a member who i found was letting his thirteen year old basically conduct target practice on deer trying to get one. the kid can't shoot cause his daddy hasn't spent the time working with him. MAD? sh** that ain't the word for it!And what burns me is i let them sit on my stand and the kid shot at several deer. two later found that he hit and the coyotes ate good. i had a rule that noone hunts my stand , i broke once but never again!!!
My son shot four times from that stand and killed four deer! one is on video tape for him. the one i would have liked to tape was his last on the final day. he broke her back at about 150 yards with a 243 and the deer just laid down and never moved!!! i didnt see it cause i wasnt with him , but it was very apperent.
so i have seen both what you describe and my boy. and i have seen a lot of other good kids and some that just need someone to work with them. kids are all different due to different home lives, experiences, and parents that know how and want to parent.
heck thats kind of the same for adults!
I know of a few adult hunters that i won't be accepting dues from next year!
Oh i guess i have spoke enough bye!
SOUTH ARKANSAS REBEL
01-09-2003, 11:33 PM
#56
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Gleason, TN
Posts: 1,327
RE: Letting Young Kids Kill Deer: Is It Right?
Very good point.
I haven't had time to work with my brother's kids because they live in KY and I only see them for about 1 week a year. Which if you know kids like these, 1 week is enough.
I'm just against letting kids hunt who don't understand what they are doing. I saw a picture of a 8 year old boy who killed some huge kodiak grizzly bear with a 45-70. He wasn't even smiling. Do you think he knows exactly what he did? Do you think he knew how great an opportunity that was? Or do you think he will even remember it when he gets older? It's like the time I saw on the outdoor channel, a 9 year old kid was hog hunting with a .410 single shot. They were hunting with dogs and the hog was running right at them. The kid shot this big hog at about 2 feet in the mouth. It dropped him but the kid never even blinked or cracked a smile. You can't tell me he knew what that hog was about to do to him. Or that he felt any sence of accomplishment.
That's what I'm against.
"Hey ya'll, watch this"
Edited by - Kodiakhuntmaster on 01/10/2003 00:35:38
I haven't had time to work with my brother's kids because they live in KY and I only see them for about 1 week a year. Which if you know kids like these, 1 week is enough.
I'm just against letting kids hunt who don't understand what they are doing. I saw a picture of a 8 year old boy who killed some huge kodiak grizzly bear with a 45-70. He wasn't even smiling. Do you think he knows exactly what he did? Do you think he knew how great an opportunity that was? Or do you think he will even remember it when he gets older? It's like the time I saw on the outdoor channel, a 9 year old kid was hog hunting with a .410 single shot. They were hunting with dogs and the hog was running right at them. The kid shot this big hog at about 2 feet in the mouth. It dropped him but the kid never even blinked or cracked a smile. You can't tell me he knew what that hog was about to do to him. Or that he felt any sence of accomplishment.
That's what I'm against.
"Hey ya'll, watch this"
Edited by - Kodiakhuntmaster on 01/10/2003 00:35:38
01-10-2003, 09:25 AM
#57
Super Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Roane Co. WV USA Member since 11/1999
Posts: 2,045
RE: Letting Young Kids Kill Deer: Is It Right?
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>i have seen both what you describe and my boy. and i have seen a lot of other good kids and some that just need someone to work with them. kids are all different due to different home lives, experiences, and parents that know how and want to parent. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
Bingo!! That is the whole thing in a nutshell. It takes responsible parenting/mentoring to help kids become responsible, safe, and ethical hunters. Not simply turning them loose in the woods because they can hit the bullseye! That does not prepare them for being a safe or responsible hunter. Nor does it prepare them for whatever they may feel when they make their first kill......
Will it be hopefully be with one shot, and a quick, clean kill being the end result? Will they feel the rush and sense of accomplishment when they take that animal....along with that touch of sadness most of us feel. Or will it be simply shooting? That depends on how/what they have been taught, and what examples they have had set for them. I find it very sad that many kids that would like to learn about hunting do not have anyone to teach them responsibly, if they have anyone to teach them at all.
I think here on the board we have some good examples of parents that are teaching, and have taught their kids to hunt safely and responsibly. All one needs to do is look at the pics, and read the stories some of our members have posted of sons or daughters after their kids hunt. Whether they had been hunting turkeys, deer, squirrels whatever.... the smiles on the kid's faces said it all!!
KHM, When I read your post it made me wonder if those kids had been pushed into those situations...much like some parents push their children to participate and excel in sports....football, baseball etc, etc. To the detriment of their kids IMO. What you described above makes me shudder to think about the risk some parent took in having a child that young involved in such a dangerous situation. Either one could have ended up with a kids death! Even if the parent was watching with back up thinking they would take care of it.....if their kid could/was not able to do so I personally think it was irresponsible....Heck, anytime, anyone is out in the field with either gun or bow be it hunting for deer, whatever the quarry.....there is always potential for danger. That "potential" needs to be understood and respected by all that hunt.
As I stated in my earlier post, it is something that I feel should be age appropriately introduced. First things first, thats basic woodmanship in my book. That is what my son who just turned 4 started learning last year. It is the first stepping stone on the path of learning how to hunt. JMO
As a mother that hunts, you can rest assured that teaching my only child to hunt, and shoot, is something I have no intention of taking lightly.
And when I do take him with me during hunting season, it will be for him not only to observe how I hunt, and what killing an animal entails.....but for me to observe him and his reactions, listen to, and answer his questions. It will be a long time, with many bridges to cross yet before my son is turned out on his own with any weapon in the field. He will have to be a "hunter of deer" first before he can be a "killer of deer". As he told me this past year when I had him out for some early scouting....."Mama, We have to thnk like a deer."
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>I also feel that as far as being a shooter......that also should come first with range time only.....not at live animals!! Shooting targets and a live animal is entirely different. I feel one must master the basics of woodsmanship, and their weapon of choice be it a bow, or gun, prior to actually hunting. My son will have to be proficient at these things, along with passing State regulation courses. As his mother, for me to not see these things through would IMHO be irresponsible. When my son goes on his first hunt.....he will be armed with the knowledge, patience, and responsible ethics of a true hunter.....or he will not go period! <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
And thats my ramble for the day.....
Its not what you harvest...
Its what you learn...
Christine
Edited by - Christine B on 01/10/2003 10:55:13
Bingo!! That is the whole thing in a nutshell. It takes responsible parenting/mentoring to help kids become responsible, safe, and ethical hunters. Not simply turning them loose in the woods because they can hit the bullseye! That does not prepare them for being a safe or responsible hunter. Nor does it prepare them for whatever they may feel when they make their first kill......
Will it be hopefully be with one shot, and a quick, clean kill being the end result? Will they feel the rush and sense of accomplishment when they take that animal....along with that touch of sadness most of us feel. Or will it be simply shooting? That depends on how/what they have been taught, and what examples they have had set for them. I find it very sad that many kids that would like to learn about hunting do not have anyone to teach them responsibly, if they have anyone to teach them at all.
I think here on the board we have some good examples of parents that are teaching, and have taught their kids to hunt safely and responsibly. All one needs to do is look at the pics, and read the stories some of our members have posted of sons or daughters after their kids hunt. Whether they had been hunting turkeys, deer, squirrels whatever.... the smiles on the kid's faces said it all!!
KHM, When I read your post it made me wonder if those kids had been pushed into those situations...much like some parents push their children to participate and excel in sports....football, baseball etc, etc. To the detriment of their kids IMO. What you described above makes me shudder to think about the risk some parent took in having a child that young involved in such a dangerous situation. Either one could have ended up with a kids death! Even if the parent was watching with back up thinking they would take care of it.....if their kid could/was not able to do so I personally think it was irresponsible....Heck, anytime, anyone is out in the field with either gun or bow be it hunting for deer, whatever the quarry.....there is always potential for danger. That "potential" needs to be understood and respected by all that hunt.
As I stated in my earlier post, it is something that I feel should be age appropriately introduced. First things first, thats basic woodmanship in my book. That is what my son who just turned 4 started learning last year. It is the first stepping stone on the path of learning how to hunt. JMO
As a mother that hunts, you can rest assured that teaching my only child to hunt, and shoot, is something I have no intention of taking lightly.
And when I do take him with me during hunting season, it will be for him not only to observe how I hunt, and what killing an animal entails.....but for me to observe him and his reactions, listen to, and answer his questions. It will be a long time, with many bridges to cross yet before my son is turned out on his own with any weapon in the field. He will have to be a "hunter of deer" first before he can be a "killer of deer". As he told me this past year when I had him out for some early scouting....."Mama, We have to thnk like a deer."
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>I also feel that as far as being a shooter......that also should come first with range time only.....not at live animals!! Shooting targets and a live animal is entirely different. I feel one must master the basics of woodsmanship, and their weapon of choice be it a bow, or gun, prior to actually hunting. My son will have to be proficient at these things, along with passing State regulation courses. As his mother, for me to not see these things through would IMHO be irresponsible. When my son goes on his first hunt.....he will be armed with the knowledge, patience, and responsible ethics of a true hunter.....or he will not go period! <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
And thats my ramble for the day.....
Its not what you harvest...
Its what you learn...
Christine
Edited by - Christine B on 01/10/2003 10:55:13
01-10-2003, 10:34 AM
#58
Super Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Roane Co. WV USA Member since 11/1999
Posts: 2,045
RE: Letting Young Kids Kill Deer: Is It Right?
Just an addition, keep in mind that these are my opinions as an older mother that loves the outdoors, and hunting. We all know what opinions are like. <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> Maybe one day Ian will have a responsible male role model so that he will be able to learn from a mans perspective of hunting too. I feel that is very important. Kudos to the dad's and mom's out there responsibly teaching your kids about what it is to hunt ! <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
Edited by - Christine B on 01/10/2003 15:13:11
Edited by - Christine B on 01/10/2003 15:13:11
01-10-2003, 12:50 PM
#59
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: ND USA
Posts: 32
RE: Letting Young Kids Kill Deer: Is It Right?
There are many ways to look at this. So replies said yes if the are to small to feild dress and drag the animal that they should not hunt. Well what about the small framed people or the people that are handicapped, are you going to tell them that they can't hunt any more becasue they aren't strong enough to drag the deer out of the woods. Someone else replyed that they shouldn't hunt until they know how to hunt. I have hunted for 28 years and I still learn each and every time out, are they saying that I haven't learned enough yet to hunt. Where is the cut off for this, I think its up to the parents to decide this. My 8yr old has hunted with me for the past three years. Last year I let him pick out the spot where we should set up, guess what hr later I had a buck down. Guess who help me get it out of the woods. Now hes not the strongest but the little he did help let me get the deer out of the woods and into the back of my truck. When he can hunt to me is ASAP I can't wait to have a new hunting buddy. He is doing great on 3d's and knows the best angle for a clean kill. Thats enough for me if he meets all state reg's.
01-10-2003, 02:21 PM
#60
Super Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Roane Co. WV USA Member since 11/1999
Posts: 2,045
RE: Letting Young Kids Kill Deer: Is It Right?
Welcome to the board!
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>I have hunted for 28 years and I still learn each and every time out, are they saying that I haven't learned enough yet to hunt.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
I do not feel that is what anyone meant. Heck, we all learn each and every time we go out.....that is part of hunting. The learning should never stop whether you are a beginner or have hunted for 60 or 70 years.
Its not what you harvest...
Its what you learn...
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>I have hunted for 28 years and I still learn each and every time out, are they saying that I haven't learned enough yet to hunt.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
I do not feel that is what anyone meant. Heck, we all learn each and every time we go out.....that is part of hunting. The learning should never stop whether you are a beginner or have hunted for 60 or 70 years.
Its not what you harvest...
Its what you learn...