bawanajim

Now thats funny right there & I don;t care who ya are!!!!!!!!![8D]

travisville

Gangly

i made sure to inform people they were my assumptions, thank you for clarifying that for everybody, some people need to read things multiple times to understand them so I understand where you are coming from. As far as where that photo comes from and that facts surrounding it, check the website of antler ranch where i said i got it from and you will find it there under their breeding section. I made sure to not intentionally lead anybody astray and I mentioned when i was assuming things so that any person of decent intellect would know this. Somebody mentioned antler ranch and therefore i posted a pic from their website with a comment about how the deer are raised and what the hunt might be like if the hunt took place there. I made sure to notify the readers of the assumptions being made with the post and i believe I did that fairly decent.

here are your facts for the pictureI posted....
http://antlerranch.com/pictures.asp?g=Facility

It is best to be open minded and notto present shadows of doubt where they are not needed, but when you have this many quality deer harvested all at the same time by hunters of different abilities, all within a relatively short time frame, then the odds of this beeing an unfenced, unbaited hunt is poor and anybody who thinks otherwise should stay away from Vegas. I for oneam very glad for the biggio family and I'm happy to see that they were in a position to experience a great time with eachother and take some really nice deer. Im all for that kind of family gathering so dont get me wrong by what im saying. There is a tremendous amount of speculation on this thread, but its inevitable given the circumstance shown in the picture. ODDS are that is wasnt an unfenced and/or unbaited hunt given the types of deer harvested/various types of hunters/time all deer were taken/etc., and because of that, the speculation in that direction is warranted. In this caseI believeit is more or lessexpected and would be surprised if nobody thought twice about the photo.

Oh yeah, I dont think a persons opinions or speculations on any givensubject mattercan be directly linked to his abilities as a hunter . If that were the case, many of the keyboard warriors on this site would go home empty handed every season

Actually, Im sure a lot of them do anyways, hahah. J/k

Reefdonkey

I generally stay out of the "flaming" wars on these types of posts, but I just wanted to make a couple of points. Since the moderator is calling some of us out.

1)Almost every message board that I visit is at least 75% negative. Whether it is college sports, pro sports, video games, threads about the best comedy of all time. (I will be debating the comedy issue on the off season thread if anyone wants to contribute.)

2) You are correct in your statement that these posts are speculation. My point would be that these speculations are made with a certain amount of previous knowledge behind it. For instance, all of the bucks in the Biggio picture look to score at least 155 (maybe not the one on the far right, but that still leaves 6). Fact: Between 2004 and 2005 there were 60 bucks out of Iowa which scored 155 or better. Fact: In the 2004 calender year 12,737 received their Hunter's Safety Certificate in Iowa.(I realize that they may not all have been deer hunters, but I suspect that a substantial number of them were.) Speculation: Over 12,000 people killed 60 bucks of this classin(my opinion) the top big buck state in the USA between 2004 -2005. But 7 people killed 7 in 1 day under fair-chase conditions. I'm calling Bull.

I know what they say about opinions, but that's mine.

I will not get into the "canned" hunting debate, B&C doesn't recognize it as fair chase and that is enough for me. Posted the links to a couple of interesting sites (one study and one article) that have some interesting stats in them.

Iowa B&C frequency and density stats

http://www.outdoorlife.com/outdoor/destinations/article/0,19912,194222,00.html

Pennsylvania Buck Study (Travel Patterns and Mortality Rates)

http://www.pgc.state.pa.us/pgc/cwp/view.asp?a=11&q=157888

Later

AJ52

Still - Nothing but speculation,assumptions,opinions,suspect,I believe,my opinion,Iowa,hunter safety,canned hunt,75% of this does this and that... Bla...Bla...

All are based on absolutely no facts as to where,when,state,method,days hunted.Nuttin - No Facts - Jack!

All trash talk about another mans "Big Hunt" of which nobody has yet to show any knowledge of.Other Web sites with 75% negatives means nothing here.Here - You Trash talk another hunter - Back it Up!

Oh BTW - what "previous knowledge" led to the speculations based on pictures posted on a web site. Give me a break!

Where's the Beef!

Assuming the Unethical or Negative aspects of another mans hunt is "Garbage IN Garbage In Garbage OUT"

furgitter

Let em have it AJ!

petasux

Lets look at your facts a little closer.You say 60 bucks over 155 in two years.Ill just look at 2004 alone and see what I can come up with.

http://www.iowadnr.com/wildlife/files/iadeer_racks.html

In the archery catagory Im seeing 44 non typical deer and 50 typical for 2004 all scoring over 155.

2 more for crossbow and handgun hunters

9 non typical for muzzleloader 13 typical

42 non typical for shotgun and about another 50 typical.

These were just the ones people chose to have registered with the state record keeping.Many people dont bother to do this chosing to enter P&Y, B&C, BTR, or other clubs or not enter them at all in anything.This was just for 2004 mind you, I didnt add in anything from 2005.

Fact, the ones recieving hunters safety certificates are primarily children around the ages of 12 or 13.Adults that hunt already have one or they cant get a license.12 is the youngest you can take the course in this state and thats what the majority of these numbers are from.What you are looking at is 12,000 small game and bird hunters for the most part and possibly first time deer hunters.

Fact: Antlered bucks in 2004 only accounted for about 38% of the harvest in the state.Of the deer tags sold in the state 30,500 of them were antlerless only.The rest were either sex.The majority of the hunters werent even trying to kill a buck, the DNR heres on a doe killing campaign and hunters have been killing record numbers of does over the last 5 years.Many others didnt fill thier tags at all.

Fact: Dont know where you got your numbers, but they dont mean much unless youre trying to prove we recruited 12,000 new hunters to the sport.Otherwise theyre pretty worthless.Out of 38% of the deer killed here in 2004 alone at least 210 and probably many moreof them scored over 155.

Fact: Since you dont know how many of these deer came from areas managed for trophy deer, how many unfilled tags there were, how many were killed in the same area and the time frame they were killed in, age of the people hunting them, and what was on thier hats when they killed these deernone of the numbers either one of posted have anything to do with the deer killed in the picture.

Reefdonkey

Whatever. Your all right and I'm wrong. People kill 7 or 8 deer of that class all the time in one day, just not me because I'm a moron "so-called hunter".

Thanks for reminding me why I don't contribute. Talk about freakin' negative.

timbercruiser

Petasux you covered the majority of the myths of the picture. Nobody has proven what state the deer were harvested as far as I know. Antler Ranch, in their website, doesn't offer hunts. Nobody can prove the deer were harvested in one day, they could have been gutted and placed in a cooler for several days till the picture was made. Lots of grandma's have the ability to bust a deer. There are too many accusations about this and many other pictures of good deer being harvested by "non-ethical" hunters. If you have factual information about these and other pictures then state the information, but knock off the baseless comments.

petasux

Whats negative about my post?You gave numbers you stated as fact, they werent anywhere close to factual.I simply pointed it out.

You ever been on a websight where people are afraid to post pictures of deer theyve shot, fish theyve caught orfamily or friends kills because theres always some ******* thats going to put thier two cents in about the size of the deer, the number killed, the method of killing them, shot placement, or just about anything else they can find to whine about?Ive watched several websights now that went that direction and its not much fun to goto them if you cant show pics, discuss hunting stories, or aske questions about how to do something without being alienated.And 90% of the time its baseless comments like the ones inthese posts thrown out by people who have no clue about the circumstances surrounding the picture that lead to it.Nobody can just say "nice deer" and move on, they have to pick things apart.Instead of "congrats" you get posts like he was to small, musta been a canned hunt, lectures on QDM, critiqued on shot placement, or called unethical because the deer wasnt killed according to someone elses philosophy on hunting.Its a bunch of petty bull**** and its dividing hunters even more then they already were.

Then you give out "facts" that arent anywhere close to the truth to justify your argument and get mad when you get called on them.The truly sad part is theres 13 pages of posts for this topic and nobody knows anymore actual facts about it then they did at the time of the intitial post.Were just arguing for the sake of arguing and nobodies gonna change thier minds.We having fun yet?