Tough decision as a land owner.....
 

Two years ago my grandfather passed away and left me the family farm. I was still in high school and overwhelmed with new responsibility.

Fast forward to now, and my uncle and cousin, who have hunted our farm in rifle season since before I was born, asked me if they could still come out and hunt. Out of respect I told them that it wouldn't be a problem, as long as they didn't shoot any does or button bucks. My uncle is a senior citizen so if he wanted a doe I told him that he and he alone could kill ONE. I hunted with them the first day of PA rifle and their wasn't a problem (because I was there). The following day I had to be back in school and have been in Morgantown ever since, no time to hunt. I get a call fom my buddy from home tonight (who cuts up their deer) and they have brought him their fourth deer off my property tonight. Two does and two button bucks so far.

I'm FURIOUS and don't know what to do. My grandfather has allowed them to hunt there for years and I was just trying to be courteous and let that continue, but they have abused their privelage. I made it very clear to them what I didn't want them doing out there, and they dis-respected that and did it anyway. I called my cousin and left him a voice mail. I told him if I here of one more deer taken off my property this year, that they are done for life. No exceptions. It was hard to do because we have always been best of friends growing up.

I want to throw thm off the property all together, but they're family. I have no idea what to do. I know for a fact they don't have four doe tags between the two of them, so they have also broke the law. They usually use their immediate family's tags and these people dont even hunt. Opinions please.....

RE: Tough decision as a land owner.....
 

Wow, the fact that family is involved makes it that much tougher, but, you gotta do what you gotta do, man, you gave them a warning, and they obviously didn't respect it, throw them out, you'll end up in trouble eventually, if you don't.

RE: Tough decision as a land owner.....
 

I'd say let them kill what they want but they must stay within the law. You need to change your no doe policy anyway. Family is more important than a deer or two. It all depends if they are more important or the deer.

RE: Tough decision as a land owner.....
 

It's besides the fact. The neighboring properties shoot enough of the does so there is no need to take that many more and kill them off. I own the land, it's what I do there. If they can't respect that when they knew the situation, then giv eme one good reason why I should still allow them to hunt there? I would still talk to them because I like them and they are family, but they screwed up and knowingly did it.

RE: Tough decision as a land owner.....
 

I'd be PO'd about the nubbies, not the does. Always a tough decision when family is involved.

Boy I was a lot of help, eh?

RE: Tough decision as a land owner.....
 

I know how you feel. This happened to me this gun season and I kicked everyone off of my property this year. They were freinds and family. I told my cousin he wasn't welcome back and the other guy that took a buck that he wasn't supposed to I told him I will give him one more chance to follow my rules. Iam going to instate a rule for next year everyone that hunts there must put down a $300.00 deposit because if you shoot it you are going to mount it.(bucks only)
I don't have a problem with anybody shooting does it makes better management practice. Well good luck

RE: Tough decision as a land owner.....
 

Take the high road if you can, and take some time to cool down.It can be hard to think when you're that angry. I would not throw them off but rather let them know how mad you are about the situation. Make them make the decision about how far they are willing to push. If they continue to disrespect you and break the law I would then kick them out and alsotell the remainder of the family why. You have resposibilities as a land owner to keep illegal behavior off your property.

That is a tough situation and I hope it works out. Next time (If there is one) make them sign a waiver form.

On another note taking deer illegally israrley justified and I wouldn't let them back on the property after they leave.

RE: Tough decision as a land owner.....
 

I would just simple tell them to stay off your property, You told them not to kill any does or button bucks. But they still did it and they did it illegally

RE: Tough decision as a land owner.....
 

We had problems with family and friends not following the rules,so we ended family/friend hunting and started leasing the property. Now we make money off the hunting and don't have anywhere near the headaches. Funny how people that get stuff for free will walk all over you, and the people that pay for it will never give you a moment's trouble.

RE: Tough decision as a land owner.....
 

I would make it clear to them to stay within the law but still let them kill does. In fact I wouldn't care if they shot button bucks, button bucks that are on your property this year will NOT be there next year. study show that they move a least five miles and up to 80 miles the first year.

RE: Tough decision as a land owner.....
 

Guys I didn't post this to be ridiculed about my wildlife management decisions. My area is heavily hunted, and I dont want any does or button bucks shot that dont need to be. That's the way it's always going to be for me, so if you're going to post and complain about that, then please don't bother.

My question was what to do about them dis-especting me and the property, as well as beaking the law. thanks.

RE: Tough decision as a land owner.....
 

Throw them out, like I said earlier, if they are family, then they should respect the rules you have set out.

RE: Tough decision as a land owner.....
 

Sounds like u made the decision already and handled it the way u saw fit. Noone but u can make the decision ur about to make. Just be prepared for the consequenses. Ask yourself the question, Are the deer that ur trying to manage worth breaking family ties over. It might come to the point that the deer u manage might be the only thing u have to show for ur effort. Good luck.

RE: Tough decision as a land owner.....
 

Just tell them that they can no longer hunt there. Your rules are your rules and if they had any respect for you they would follow them. Good luck and happy hunting.

RE: Tough decision as a land owner.....
 

I would have expressed my disappointment but not kicked them off. They are family, and just make sure they get it through their head that you won't take those kinds of actions again, one more slip up and they're booted. I would hope that they've realized how serious you are.

RE: Tough decision as a land owner.....
 

Well, Iwould take a little timeto cool off. Then I would put them on the spot. Ask them why they didn't go with the program like you had told them. Let their responses guide your decision.

Another side of this situation comes to my mind. Did they really need the meat? Or did they just not want to get skunked?

RE: Tough decision as a land owner.....
 

I would kick them out. They think they have privilege because they are relatives and it WAS a family farm. You already probably were nicer than I would have been. Explain if you have to that you want to up the quality of bucks on the property.

By the way, I don't buy the line that says the button bucks go a long distance away.

RE: Tough decision as a land owner.....
 

i'm a pretty firm believer that if there is an agreement then it ought to be kept. no matter your reason for your deer policy it was talked about before the fact so there were no surprises. it amazes me that when other people are in the wrong in order to keep peace or be "politically correct" the person that was doing what they should usually loses the sleep over the deal or becomes the bad guy if something is said. i think you should approach them and not feel bad of the outcome because if they make you out to be the bad guy it just proves they weren't worth the hand they shook with. sometimes these decisions are tough but if they are not made things will never be fixed and this goes for everything in life. good luck

RE: Tough decision as a land owner.....
 

thanks guys. my cousin wouldn't answer his phone (because he knew what was coming), but in my voice mail i stayed calm and gave him the ultimatum. i said 'look, you guys have hunted here for a long time and thats why u are still allowed to hunt. but there's certain ways that my dad and i want the property to be handled and you knowingly abused that' i also told him that not one more antlerless deer the rest of this deer season or they lose their hunting priveleges there for life. i let him know that it is what it is and if they screw up again, their loss.

my uncle will most likely be in his usual spot all day tomorrow, and when my dad gets home aound lunch time he's going to go have a talk with him. he tends to be more sensible and mature than my 21 year old cousin so hopefully there will be no more problems. we have never had one problem with any of the 7 of my dads brother except this one.

RE: Tough decision as a land owner.....
 

Honestly, ask them again and this time its serious. People don't hold family too high anymore. But man, deer isn't worth family.Just talk to them about it.

RE: Tough decision as a land owner.....
 

Nah if they disrespect you like that tell em how it is and if they dont respect it, SEE YA. Just like parents are with kids.. if you dont follow the rules then youre done. If they dont want to follow your rules tell them to go elsewhere.. you stated what you wanted loud and clear.. and to kill FOUR DEER is absurd.. let them know and if it happens again.. PEACE OUT UNCLE HUNT ELSEWHERE.. thats BS i would be so pissed...

RE: Tough decision as a land owner.....
 

They should of done as u wished because they told u they would. I also dont like it when people break the lawbecause it could come back on you. Im big on people keeping their word. I do have too agree with alot of the others on this message board about your hunting philosphy, I dont like it. Do i respect it, sure, its your place, u do what u want. But posting on a message forum and then telling people too stay off your posts if there opinion is diffrent then yours, is garbage. Posting isnt just for people too responde telling u what u want too hear. Sometimes peoples opinions will be diffrent and u should respect theirs as they respect yours.

RE: Tough decision as a land owner.....
 

I think you have handled it well. Please post the final outcome. I, for one, would be interested in how it turns out.

RE: Tough decision as a land owner.....
 

I fill for you J .I know your farm and it is not big enough to be taking any buttons off it,and the doe count is to low around here to be taking them.I would rather make good use of a fresh road kill then take another doe out of fayette co.Some hunters can't help them selfs and know nothing about managment.You are right ,play by the rules or play somewhere else.

RE: Tough decision as a land owner.....
 

I suppose its diffrent elsewhere but we have always been told here in mn, u cant have a good deer population without shooting does. Maybe thats only if the herd size is good, I dont know.

RE: Tough decision as a land owner.....
 

I don't know if this got touched on earlier, but are they feeding the family with this meat? I would have zero problem with it if they NEEDED the meat, but if they were just killing deer to keep from eating tag soup....I'd show them the door. I recently bought ground, my uncle my dad and I are the only ones who hunt it. I am trying to be selective, but I know its a lost cause with them. I would never kick them off the ground though....deer season is a 3 month a year deal...family is 24/7 for life...JMHO.

RE: Tough decision as a land owner.....
 

The key for me is that it is YOUR land. You let them hunt to be nice and they aren't following the rules. I would tell them they have one more chance and then they are done. Good Luck

RE: Tough decision as a land owner.....
 

Would you invite them back to your house to visit if they stole from you? To me this is similar in some ways;you did not want them to take the game and they were breaking the law by taking too many! If it were me I may give them one more chance, but i would set the record straight that if they did not follow the rules it would mean the end of them hunting forever on my place. It is all about R-E-S-P-E-C-T!

RE: Tough decision as a land owner.....
 

well they just made the decision realy easy for me. after leaving that mature voice mail last night letting them know that i was not happy, i woke up to three text messages this morning that called me everything but a white boy and that they didn't NEED to hunt my farm anymore. talk about an easy decision. i called my dad back home and told him to keep an eye on the place, and if they are up there to call me and the state police will handle this situation. i cant believe the disrespect out of some people, all so they can get their hands into a gut pile. unbelievable

RE: Tough decision as a land owner.....
 

Sorry to hear it ended like that...

RE: Tough decision as a land owner.....
 

Guys,

Get off his back about the NO Doe thing. I for one agree with him. On our farm we take no Does. Missouri's Conservation Department has decided in recent years to give unbelievable amounts of doe tags. I've watched the population steady decline. On my farm we went from seeing several deer per day to just a few. So the last few years we have said that we wouldn't kill any Does. Our population is rebounding while all the neighbors complain about there not being any deer like there use to be. Now if There gets to be too many does on my place then we will take a few. Thats it end of story. Why do you guys feel the need to take his or my management to task. You don't even know the situation. Blanket statements like: "you have to kill does to manage the herd properly" is rediculous. In some areas you there may be too few does.

Try to keep peace with family, but be firm. Your first mistake was waffling with the senior citizen, allowing him to take does. You should have stood firm.

RE: Tough decision as a land owner.....
 

That's too bad that it ended this way. You took the high road and asked them to follow your rules or find somewhere else. They chose to call you names and say they didn't need your farm. I, for one, help my landowners with taxes, work around the land, and fix/hang any stands, start and maintain the mineral licks, and make sure that his freezer is full at the end of the season. I will be delivering a couple of X-mas gifts this afternoon before I climb into my stand. Find a couple of hunters that appreciate hunting on private land and respect your rules and you. It might be the best decision you ever made and your herd would probably improve as well. This is just my take as someone who has permission to hunt on a number of private properties.

RE: Tough decision as a land owner.....
 

Hate you are even having to deal with something like this. Funny how the family and friends become the ones pushing your buttons. We have the same thing happening here. As a new landowner, stand firm no matter who it is. With you being gone, you can always find someone who will be willing to rent it AND follow your rules. A person who is paying you will be a great asset to help you make sure your rules are followed. Hunting is a privilege. Everyone should remember this. We have many small tracts of land, and cannot keep poachers and tresspassers out ourselves. Game wardens are few and far between. We lease it out and they take care of it for us. Don't feel too badly about it, just because it's family doesn't mean they have the right to run over you.

RE: Tough decision as a land owner.....
 

I would say there done for the year they have already got 4 deer thats enough for any family so just say ok your done for the year.

RE: Tough decision as a land owner.....
 

They brake the only rule ,then poach and now your the bad guy .WOW I fill bad for you ,that they put you in that position.

RE: Tough decision as a land owner.....
 

I go with what the dnr say, they know better then we do on how too manage a herd

RE: Tough decision as a land owner.....
 

the decision sounds like its made, if they can't respect the ground rules.... heres the door.

people have more respect for others property then their own sometimes... maybe they need to learn that family should be treated better than strangers and have respected your wishes.

RE: Tough decision as a land owner.....
 

Hey dont worry about it, families are way overrated. Just think of all the big bucks you will have to yourself next year.

That is meant to be sarcastic. Until things change in WV: adding more enforcement, antler restrictions, etc., practicing QDMA in the mountain state is a waste of time IMO and I dont think its worth losing a christmas present over.

I dont understand the correlation between stealing person property and going against a land owners wishes. The deer are no ones property but the state. As long as they did not kill more than they were allowed they have broken no laws. They just might have to find another place to hunt.

RE: Tough decision as a land owner.....
 

I own a 50 acre farm in Pennsylvania.....I only live in Morgantown long enough to complete my education then it's back home to PA. WV QDM laws don't have any relevance to anything lol

RE: Tough decision as a land owner.....
 

Wow,

Is this your dad's brother and his son?
How long have you all been hunting together?
How close are you guys as far as other aspects of life?
What kind of "rules have been in place in the past? How have you guys hunted it before?
Did your granddad hunt and what kind of rules did he have in place if any?
How old are you?(just curious)
Have you guys all ever sat down(before all of this)and talked about goals for the property?

I only ask these things because despite what is being said family is vey important and many of these questions are important.

Also I am in an almost identical situation except for the fact that my grandfather left the farm to my dad and his brother 50/50. I can't imagine had he left it just to my father or even to me thatwe would say that the others must now follow our rules or leave and I know had my uncle inherited it all he would never say anything like that. But we are a hunting family and have hunted together for years(with sometimes differing views) andwe allknow that the land is there because my grandfather wanted us (all of us) to have a place to go, to call our own despite whose name it was left in. This is definitely not a situation to be handledthrough a phone call or a text message and I can't even believe there is talk of the police.Where I come from familymeans a lot and those relationships should be protected and supported (even if it means everyone swallowingtheir pride and trying to hash outthe differences). I could never imaginejust throwing away"forever" relationships with family over something as petty as the things you mentioned. Maybe you guys should rent the movie "NEXT of KIN", cook up some food, and try to work this thing out.I AM MY BROTHERS KEEPER!!
Just my .02