Federal Ban on Bear Baiting
12-27-2002, 03:58 AM
#1
Fork Horn
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: SE Wisconsin
Posts: 448
Federal Ban on Bear Baiting
Bear baiting comes under fire
Ventura says it's 'assassination'; U.S. to take up the issue Associated Press
Last Updated: Dec. 25, 2002
Washington - Minnesota Gov. Jesse Ventura likens bear baiting to "assassination," but wildlife officials in the Upper Midwest say it's needed to control the bear population.
Next year, Congress will decide if the practice - which involves leaving anything from doughnuts to pizza out while hunters lie in wait - should be allowed on federal lands.
Because federal officials defer to states on wildlife management, bear baiting is allowed in federal parks in the nine states where it's legal - Alaska, Idaho, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, New Hampshire, Utah, Wisconsin and Wyoming.
That would change under legislation Rep. Jim Moran (D-Va.) plans to introduce next year, with the backing of the Humane Society of the United States.
"This is just wrong," Moran said. "It's comparable to shooting fish in a barrel. I just don't know what kind of sport that is. It's just a slaughter."
Ventura, who once declared, "Until you've hunted man, you haven't hunted yet," expressed even more contempt for bear baiting.
"Going out there and putting jelly doughnuts down and Yogi comes up and sits there and thinks he's found the mother lode five days in a row - and then you back-shoot him from a tree?" Ventura said.
"To me, that's not sport. I don't care what anybody says about that. That ain't sport - that's an assassination."
But Karen Noyce, a bear researcher with the Minnesota Department of Natural Resources, said it would be difficult to hunt bear in the state's woody terrain without using bait.
"Bears are spread out around the forests," she said. "You don't normally see bears unless they're at a place where they are feeding."
Noyce said bear baiting - the predominant way bears are hunted in the states that allow it - has helped keep the bear population in check, at just over 20,000.
A ban on federal lands would have a significant effect on bear baiting. In Wisconsin, for example, the federal government is the second-largest landowner.
Bear baiting and hunting with dogs - a practice banned in Minnesota - has reduced the Wisconsin bear population to 11,000, from 15,000 four years ago. That's helped cut down on crop damage and other nuisance problems with bears, said Dave Evenson, deer and bear specialist with the Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources.
"There are not a whole lot of other ways of harvesting bears," Evenson said. "They're a low-density animal, on a big wooded landscape."
Wayne Pacelle, a vice president and lobbyist with the Humane Society, discounted that argument.
"They have thick forests and lush vegetation in Washington and Oregon and other states that have long banned bear baiting," he said. "It's a silly excuse."
Washington state banned bear baiting and hunting with dogs in 1996, but the number of bears killed by hunters has actually increased since then - 1,439 last year from 844 in 1997. That's because the state lengthened the bear hunting season and reduced the price of hunting permits, said George Tsukamoto, a biologist with the state Department of Fish and Wildlife.
Most of the bears killed have been in the densely forested western part of the state, he said.
Three other states banned bear baiting in the past decade - Massachusetts in 1996, Oregon in 1994 and Colorado in 1992. Michigan voters rejected a proposed bear baiting ban in 1996.
Rick Posig, president of the Wisconsin Bear Hunters Association, said bear baiting isn't as easy as critics contend.
"You can sit on a bait for hours on end," he said. "The bears are smart. They know when you're there and when you're not there."
Posig also argued that baiting makes the bear population stronger, by providing enough food for the surviving bears to have more cubs in the spring.
The Humane Society makes the same point.
"Well-fed bears reproduce more," said Pacelle. "By putting tens of thousands of pounds of food in the woods, you contribute to population, which runs against the idea that bear baiting somehow meets some management imperative."
He also argued it was inconsistent for the U.S. Forest Service and federal agencies to warn people against feeding animals but allow hunters to put out food for bears.
"There is some truth to that," conceded Noyce, the Minnesota state bear researcher. "I won't say baiting doesn't contribute to bears habituating to human scent. I'm sure it does."
Last year, a House subcommittee defeated a proposed bear baiting ban, 38-25.
http://www.jsonline.com/news/State/dec02/105929.asp
Ventura says it's 'assassination'; U.S. to take up the issue Associated Press
Last Updated: Dec. 25, 2002
Washington - Minnesota Gov. Jesse Ventura likens bear baiting to "assassination," but wildlife officials in the Upper Midwest say it's needed to control the bear population.
Next year, Congress will decide if the practice - which involves leaving anything from doughnuts to pizza out while hunters lie in wait - should be allowed on federal lands.
Because federal officials defer to states on wildlife management, bear baiting is allowed in federal parks in the nine states where it's legal - Alaska, Idaho, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, New Hampshire, Utah, Wisconsin and Wyoming.
That would change under legislation Rep. Jim Moran (D-Va.) plans to introduce next year, with the backing of the Humane Society of the United States.
"This is just wrong," Moran said. "It's comparable to shooting fish in a barrel. I just don't know what kind of sport that is. It's just a slaughter."
Ventura, who once declared, "Until you've hunted man, you haven't hunted yet," expressed even more contempt for bear baiting.
"Going out there and putting jelly doughnuts down and Yogi comes up and sits there and thinks he's found the mother lode five days in a row - and then you back-shoot him from a tree?" Ventura said.
"To me, that's not sport. I don't care what anybody says about that. That ain't sport - that's an assassination."
But Karen Noyce, a bear researcher with the Minnesota Department of Natural Resources, said it would be difficult to hunt bear in the state's woody terrain without using bait.
"Bears are spread out around the forests," she said. "You don't normally see bears unless they're at a place where they are feeding."
Noyce said bear baiting - the predominant way bears are hunted in the states that allow it - has helped keep the bear population in check, at just over 20,000.
A ban on federal lands would have a significant effect on bear baiting. In Wisconsin, for example, the federal government is the second-largest landowner.
Bear baiting and hunting with dogs - a practice banned in Minnesota - has reduced the Wisconsin bear population to 11,000, from 15,000 four years ago. That's helped cut down on crop damage and other nuisance problems with bears, said Dave Evenson, deer and bear specialist with the Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources.
"There are not a whole lot of other ways of harvesting bears," Evenson said. "They're a low-density animal, on a big wooded landscape."
Wayne Pacelle, a vice president and lobbyist with the Humane Society, discounted that argument.
"They have thick forests and lush vegetation in Washington and Oregon and other states that have long banned bear baiting," he said. "It's a silly excuse."
Washington state banned bear baiting and hunting with dogs in 1996, but the number of bears killed by hunters has actually increased since then - 1,439 last year from 844 in 1997. That's because the state lengthened the bear hunting season and reduced the price of hunting permits, said George Tsukamoto, a biologist with the state Department of Fish and Wildlife.
Most of the bears killed have been in the densely forested western part of the state, he said.
Three other states banned bear baiting in the past decade - Massachusetts in 1996, Oregon in 1994 and Colorado in 1992. Michigan voters rejected a proposed bear baiting ban in 1996.
Rick Posig, president of the Wisconsin Bear Hunters Association, said bear baiting isn't as easy as critics contend.
"You can sit on a bait for hours on end," he said. "The bears are smart. They know when you're there and when you're not there."
Posig also argued that baiting makes the bear population stronger, by providing enough food for the surviving bears to have more cubs in the spring.
The Humane Society makes the same point.
"Well-fed bears reproduce more," said Pacelle. "By putting tens of thousands of pounds of food in the woods, you contribute to population, which runs against the idea that bear baiting somehow meets some management imperative."
He also argued it was inconsistent for the U.S. Forest Service and federal agencies to warn people against feeding animals but allow hunters to put out food for bears.
"There is some truth to that," conceded Noyce, the Minnesota state bear researcher. "I won't say baiting doesn't contribute to bears habituating to human scent. I'm sure it does."
Last year, a House subcommittee defeated a proposed bear baiting ban, 38-25.
http://www.jsonline.com/news/State/dec02/105929.asp
12-27-2002, 10:18 AM
#2
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: NWWA
Posts: 68
RE: Federal Ban on Bear Baiting
Wonder what funding plan they have? They will need $$ if this legisltation is implimented. Just ask what Washington State now has to fund for bear mangement...
If they are to do anything, I would agree to a ban on processed products such as doughnuts.
If they are to do anything, I would agree to a ban on processed products such as doughnuts.
12-27-2002, 06:32 PM
#4
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Mill Creek WA USA
Posts: 40
RE: Federal Ban on Bear Baiting
BEAR BAITING
Somebody call the keepers, some of the inmates are loose again.
Governor Ventura says bear baiting (luring black bears to a feeding site where they may be shot) is “assassination”. The vice president of the Humane Society of the United States is backing Congressman Jim Moran (D-VA) who has introduced legislation to ban bear baiting on Federal lands. He (Moran) then says with a straight face the he “tries not to tell rural areas how to make laws and regulations”.
We are told this isn’t “sporting” by people who are committed to eliminating “sport” hunting. Lady biologists tell us that it habituates bears to human scent. We are cautioned that this “extra” food somehow upsets either Mother Nature or the “ecological balance” or perhaps even both.
Just before I was forced from the US Fish & Wildlife Service a manager who found my advocacy of trapping to be a problem tried to embarrass me in a large meeting about trapping and the threatened European fur ban by asking me where I stood on bear baiting. He did this to not only embarrass me but to distract the attendees from the real issue. I will try to share my response to him as best I can recollect it.
The methods of taking bears are the sole domain of state governors. I would respect what methods they and their legislators allow bear hunters in their states to employ. That said if I were King and it was solely my responsibility to regulate bear hunting methods, bear baiting would probably be my preferred method of taking.
The purpose of bear hunting is to achieve or maintain a bear population or a given distribution of bears in that state. Why is bear baiting perhaps the best method to achieve this end? There are many reasons but let’s just name a few.
A.) Bear baiting is probably the most consistent way regardless of weather to harvest X numbers of bears. Year in year out, Y numbers of bear bait sites result in X numbers of taken (killed) bears per Z number of days. States can license and regulate the numbers and location of bait sites to achieve a given harvest.
B.) Unlike dogs, bait sites don’t violate private property. Unlike dogs, the investment in maintaining bait sites is far less financially and time-wise for hunters. Unlike dogpacks, almost anyone at anytime can get a license and try bear hunting to get some bear meat, a bearskin rug, and/or jewelry made from claws or teeth.
C.) When hunters merely have a season where they blunder about for bears, the harvest can be abysmal or too big very quickly due to snowstorms, rain, or other phenomena. Bait sites are if nothing else, consistent for given bear populations.
D.) Bear bait sites are effective in the thickest to the sparsest cover. They are effective anytime of the year.
The best reason for supporting bear baiting was the last one I mentioned. Remember I was giving this little soliloquy at a meeting about making trapping methods MORE HUMANE. Listen up Governor Ventura. Listen up Congressman Moran. Listen up Humane Society poohbahs. Since you all posture about the unfair treatment of the poor critter this one is for you!
E.) The best reason to support bear baiting is to treat the bear in the most humane manner. What, I ask, is more humane than luring a relaxed bear to a site where the hunter is relaxed and able to decide calmly whether he or she wants to take that particular bear? What, I ask is more humane than calmly and accurately shooting a nearby bear through the heart as it does whatever on the pile of old meat or old donuts? The bear dies instantly, the hide receives minimal damage, and the meat is as good as it can be from that particular bear. The likelihood of a crippled bear escaping to die of its wounds is as low as we can make it.
Now I know that some might be surprised that not only am I a caring and sensitive guy but that I presume to defend the poor bear from Governors, Congressmen, and their Humane chums. Well folks, that is the way it is. Like so many of these environmental/animal rights hobgoblins, things are not only different than portrayed but indeed quite the opposite. The ones posturing as environmental/ animal rights advocates have an agenda that has nothing to do with what they proclaim.
The real thing to remember is that, like so many other “feel good” laws, this is not the concern of the Federal government as defined in the Constitution.
It is encouraging the guys like Governor Ventura don’t get reelected. Congressman like Moran should be replaced by Congressmen who proclaim that bears are under state jurisdiction AND OF NO LEGAL CONCERN to the Federal government. We should only elect senators and Congressmen who understand and defend the principle that Federal public lands should comply with the plant and wildlife of the state wherein they exist.
The environmental/animal rights outfits will continue to manipulate such politicians as long as we put them in office. This continuing march of Federal jurisdiction expansion at the expense of state responsibilities established in the US Constitution harms all of us more every day.
Jim Beers
12-27-02
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jim Beers is a retired US Fish & Wildlife Service wildlife biologist, law enforcement officer, and refuge manager. His is concerned about the increasing accumulation of fish and wildlife responsibilities at the Federal level and it's deleterious effects on wildlife, resource users, and the American way of life.
*Distributed by Hunt4life.com with the permission of the author.
Somebody call the keepers, some of the inmates are loose again.
Governor Ventura says bear baiting (luring black bears to a feeding site where they may be shot) is “assassination”. The vice president of the Humane Society of the United States is backing Congressman Jim Moran (D-VA) who has introduced legislation to ban bear baiting on Federal lands. He (Moran) then says with a straight face the he “tries not to tell rural areas how to make laws and regulations”.
We are told this isn’t “sporting” by people who are committed to eliminating “sport” hunting. Lady biologists tell us that it habituates bears to human scent. We are cautioned that this “extra” food somehow upsets either Mother Nature or the “ecological balance” or perhaps even both.
Just before I was forced from the US Fish & Wildlife Service a manager who found my advocacy of trapping to be a problem tried to embarrass me in a large meeting about trapping and the threatened European fur ban by asking me where I stood on bear baiting. He did this to not only embarrass me but to distract the attendees from the real issue. I will try to share my response to him as best I can recollect it.
The methods of taking bears are the sole domain of state governors. I would respect what methods they and their legislators allow bear hunters in their states to employ. That said if I were King and it was solely my responsibility to regulate bear hunting methods, bear baiting would probably be my preferred method of taking.
The purpose of bear hunting is to achieve or maintain a bear population or a given distribution of bears in that state. Why is bear baiting perhaps the best method to achieve this end? There are many reasons but let’s just name a few.
A.) Bear baiting is probably the most consistent way regardless of weather to harvest X numbers of bears. Year in year out, Y numbers of bear bait sites result in X numbers of taken (killed) bears per Z number of days. States can license and regulate the numbers and location of bait sites to achieve a given harvest.
B.) Unlike dogs, bait sites don’t violate private property. Unlike dogs, the investment in maintaining bait sites is far less financially and time-wise for hunters. Unlike dogpacks, almost anyone at anytime can get a license and try bear hunting to get some bear meat, a bearskin rug, and/or jewelry made from claws or teeth.
C.) When hunters merely have a season where they blunder about for bears, the harvest can be abysmal or too big very quickly due to snowstorms, rain, or other phenomena. Bait sites are if nothing else, consistent for given bear populations.
D.) Bear bait sites are effective in the thickest to the sparsest cover. They are effective anytime of the year.
The best reason for supporting bear baiting was the last one I mentioned. Remember I was giving this little soliloquy at a meeting about making trapping methods MORE HUMANE. Listen up Governor Ventura. Listen up Congressman Moran. Listen up Humane Society poohbahs. Since you all posture about the unfair treatment of the poor critter this one is for you!
E.) The best reason to support bear baiting is to treat the bear in the most humane manner. What, I ask, is more humane than luring a relaxed bear to a site where the hunter is relaxed and able to decide calmly whether he or she wants to take that particular bear? What, I ask is more humane than calmly and accurately shooting a nearby bear through the heart as it does whatever on the pile of old meat or old donuts? The bear dies instantly, the hide receives minimal damage, and the meat is as good as it can be from that particular bear. The likelihood of a crippled bear escaping to die of its wounds is as low as we can make it.
Now I know that some might be surprised that not only am I a caring and sensitive guy but that I presume to defend the poor bear from Governors, Congressmen, and their Humane chums. Well folks, that is the way it is. Like so many of these environmental/animal rights hobgoblins, things are not only different than portrayed but indeed quite the opposite. The ones posturing as environmental/ animal rights advocates have an agenda that has nothing to do with what they proclaim.
The real thing to remember is that, like so many other “feel good” laws, this is not the concern of the Federal government as defined in the Constitution.
It is encouraging the guys like Governor Ventura don’t get reelected. Congressman like Moran should be replaced by Congressmen who proclaim that bears are under state jurisdiction AND OF NO LEGAL CONCERN to the Federal government. We should only elect senators and Congressmen who understand and defend the principle that Federal public lands should comply with the plant and wildlife of the state wherein they exist.
The environmental/animal rights outfits will continue to manipulate such politicians as long as we put them in office. This continuing march of Federal jurisdiction expansion at the expense of state responsibilities established in the US Constitution harms all of us more every day.
Jim Beers
12-27-02
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jim Beers is a retired US Fish & Wildlife Service wildlife biologist, law enforcement officer, and refuge manager. His is concerned about the increasing accumulation of fish and wildlife responsibilities at the Federal level and it's deleterious effects on wildlife, resource users, and the American way of life.
*Distributed by Hunt4life.com with the permission of the author.
12-27-2002, 06:36 PM
#5
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: NWWA
Posts: 68
RE: Federal Ban on Bear Baiting
Just my opinion,,,
The last few years that baiting was legal in Washington they implemented restrictions on on baits to only un-processed or natural baits ie; fruits, fish, grains etc.
No hostess jelly filled dougnuts and such.
I agreed with the move is all, and it kept the woods a little cleaner.
I had no problem getting many animals in on salmon carcasses and sure wished I could do it again.
The last few years that baiting was legal in Washington they implemented restrictions on on baits to only un-processed or natural baits ie; fruits, fish, grains etc.
No hostess jelly filled dougnuts and such.
I agreed with the move is all, and it kept the woods a little cleaner.
I had no problem getting many animals in on salmon carcasses and sure wished I could do it again.
12-27-2002, 07:43 PM
#6
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: egypt
Posts: 1,994
RE: Federal Ban on Bear Baiting
using salmon carcasses here is pushing your luck.
You see what happened to Wa bear baiting...give them a little and hung yourself!
Ak also makes you clean all bait and contaminated soil when the season is done. In all reality there shouldnt be ANY trash out there to begin with other then maybe some burlap from your stink bait, your registration sign and if you use a barrel, either a 35gallon or lager pvc or steel drum. SO the ONLY trash there maybe that sign or that burlap from the stink baits. Stuff that should be cleaned up perodically throughout the season or at the least when you pull your baits....that's just to easy!
I dont bear bait anymore, but I also wont give into anti legislation and I highly doubt you do also.
Edited by - Lilhunter on 12/27/2002 20:48:57
You see what happened to Wa bear baiting...give them a little and hung yourself!
Ak also makes you clean all bait and contaminated soil when the season is done. In all reality there shouldnt be ANY trash out there to begin with other then maybe some burlap from your stink bait, your registration sign and if you use a barrel, either a 35gallon or lager pvc or steel drum. SO the ONLY trash there maybe that sign or that burlap from the stink baits. Stuff that should be cleaned up perodically throughout the season or at the least when you pull your baits....that's just to easy!
I dont bear bait anymore, but I also wont give into anti legislation and I highly doubt you do also.
Edited by - Lilhunter on 12/27/2002 20:48:57
12-30-2002, 07:29 AM
#7
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Marysville WA USA
Posts: 760
RE: Federal Ban on Bear Baiting
The Federal government has no business what-so-ever in enacting any kind of wildlife management. Leave it up to the states.
http://www.wanwtf.org
http://www.wanwtf.org
