Guides and Outfitters aren't really worth it!
02-14-2007, 11:24 AM
#11
Typical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 575
RE: Guides and Outfitters aren't really worth it!
Yeah, I know it peeves me a little too about the wilderness area in Wy. You can hike and camp without a guide but as soon as you put a weapon in your hand you need a guide. That is why I have to stay in the lower elevations. I will be sure to obey that law. I know what your saying and unfortunaly this whats causing the land shortage too. But before I blame it all on the outfitters it is just where the industry is going. Just like the costhousing, cars, cost of living ect ect ect....the cost to hunt has went up too. Zen, out of curiosity what state are you from?
02-14-2007, 11:38 AM
#12
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Crescent Valley, NV
Posts: 2,271
RE: Guides and Outfitters aren't really worth it!
I guess it all depends on how you measure success. For years I have been wanting to get into lion hunting. But to have a person guide you is well over $2000. I could not fork out that kind of dough for a guided hunt, so I ended up with my own hounds. The first one came in the summer of 2005. I now have 4. I also have close to $1,000 in electronics, who knows how much in dog food, gas, $275 repairing a trailer I wrecked in December, and probably $400-500 in vet bills. All of that and I still have not seen a cat in a tree. I could have easily just paid the $2000 by now and had a cat on the wall, for a LOT cheaper than what I am in it now.
So for the person who does not have the ability to hunt every weekend, and I mean EVERY weekend, make up lies to the wife of why a new something or other is in order, skip appointments because there is a fresh snow on the ground, or anything of the like, a guide is definately in order.
Then for the idiots like me, there is doing it on your own
And I have done it almost on my own with the exception of a few weekends going out with a couple friends looking for the elusive cougar track. Would I trade all of this for anything in the world? Not on my life. I was gone for 4 months at training, except for weekends, and actually missed hearing my dogs bark at the stray cats, jackrabbits, dogs, and people driving by.
Really, for most people, a guide or outfitter for most species is probably the best bet.
Later,
Marcial
So for the person who does not have the ability to hunt every weekend, and I mean EVERY weekend, make up lies to the wife of why a new something or other is in order, skip appointments because there is a fresh snow on the ground, or anything of the like, a guide is definately in order.
Then for the idiots like me, there is doing it on your own
And I have done it almost on my own with the exception of a few weekends going out with a couple friends looking for the elusive cougar track. Would I trade all of this for anything in the world? Not on my life. I was gone for 4 months at training, except for weekends, and actually missed hearing my dogs bark at the stray cats, jackrabbits, dogs, and people driving by. Really, for most people, a guide or outfitter for most species is probably the best bet.
Later,
Marcial
02-14-2007, 12:43 PM
#13
Typical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 575
RE: Guides and Outfitters aren't really worth it!
Yes they do have there place. Here is a reply I sent to an outfitter in the swap a huntforum. He was trying to police the forumbecause I think it eats into his pocket.As he pointed out the states are making it harder and more expensive to hunt. I hope I wasn't to rough on em?
http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=1919335&mpage=1&key=&#199570 6
http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=1919335&mpage=1&key=&#199570 6
02-16-2007, 07:29 AM
#14
Typical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location:
Posts: 549
RE: Guides and Outfitters aren't really worth it!
I can see both sides. I wouldn't pay thousands of dollars for a controlled hunt where the animal eventually is going to be killed. There are some outfitters I personally would not go with and amazes me they are still in business. I'm not in favor of large private outfitting leases. They take awayfrom the locals and make videos that aren't releastic of everyday hunting adventures. Wether you hunt yourself or with a guide nothing beats elk on public land for self gradification. Elk hunting the real way.
One 6x6 after three years good job. Most hunters will live entire lifetime of hunting elk on public land and not take home a 6x6 bull of any kind trophy or not. I've know men that have hunted over ten years and not brought an elk home. Outfitters know the game they know the terrain hot, dry, cold, wet, won't bugle, scattered, or bunched most know how to react to the situation and where the elk will be on that particular day. The rest is right situation setup and luck if the big boy presents a shot that day.
I'm proud to be an outfitter on public land in Colorado. We don't always kill every clients elk but we earn every dollar we are paid in providing the person with the best adventure they can get for their money.
Its not easy being an outfitter anymore. You got aka trophy hunters, lazy hunters, equipment guru's, and people who don't shoot enough to hunt. But then there's the hunters who come out optimistic and will listen to what you say, give everything they got in physical stamia for the chance to take home a bull elk the way it was meant to be done. I'm taking a dad and his 15yr old daughter this year and I can tell you this I'm so excited to be able to be apart of someone else's first elk hunting memories. Its whats its all about.
To get paid to hunt(not millions and I have to work in the off season), if your a serious hunter and can get along with people who wouldn't want to be a guide? I live 100% for hunting and guiding keeps me in the mountains alot more than if I wasn't an outfitter. Some may see us as ruff shady characters or may see us as master hunters. I prefer to think of myself as the later.
Hunt to live, live to hunt but leave something for the next guy.
This is where outfitters have an advantage over someone wanting to coming elk hunting that has never been in a elk state and viturally has no idea how or where to begin.
One 6x6 after three years good job. Most hunters will live entire lifetime of hunting elk on public land and not take home a 6x6 bull of any kind trophy or not. I've know men that have hunted over ten years and not brought an elk home. Outfitters know the game they know the terrain hot, dry, cold, wet, won't bugle, scattered, or bunched most know how to react to the situation and where the elk will be on that particular day. The rest is right situation setup and luck if the big boy presents a shot that day.
I'm proud to be an outfitter on public land in Colorado. We don't always kill every clients elk but we earn every dollar we are paid in providing the person with the best adventure they can get for their money.
Its not easy being an outfitter anymore. You got aka trophy hunters, lazy hunters, equipment guru's, and people who don't shoot enough to hunt. But then there's the hunters who come out optimistic and will listen to what you say, give everything they got in physical stamia for the chance to take home a bull elk the way it was meant to be done. I'm taking a dad and his 15yr old daughter this year and I can tell you this I'm so excited to be able to be apart of someone else's first elk hunting memories. Its whats its all about.
To get paid to hunt(not millions and I have to work in the off season), if your a serious hunter and can get along with people who wouldn't want to be a guide? I live 100% for hunting and guiding keeps me in the mountains alot more than if I wasn't an outfitter. Some may see us as ruff shady characters or may see us as master hunters. I prefer to think of myself as the later.
Hunt to live, live to hunt but leave something for the next guy.
This is where outfitters have an advantage over someone wanting to coming elk hunting that has never been in a elk state and viturally has no idea how or where to begin.
02-16-2007, 01:24 PM
#15
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 9
RE: Guides and Outfitters aren't really worth it!
ORIGINAL: cherokee_outfitters
I can see both sides. I wouldn't pay thousands of dollars for a controlled hunt where the animal eventually is going to be killed. There are some outfitters I personally would not go with and amazes me they are still in business. I'm not in favor of large private outfitting leases. They take awayfrom the locals and make videos that aren't releastic of everyday hunting adventures. Wether you hunt yourself or with a guide nothing beats elk on public land for self gradification. Elk hunting the real way.
One 6x6 after three years good job. Most hunters will live entire lifetime of hunting elk on public land and not take home a 6x6 bull of any kind trophy or not. I've know men that have hunted over ten years and not brought an elk home. Outfitters know the game they know the terrain hot, dry, cold, wet, won't bugle, scattered, or bunched most know how to react to the situation and where the elk will be on that particular day. The rest is right situation setup and luck if the big boy presents a shot that day.
I'm proud to be an outfitter on public land in Colorado. We don't always kill every clients elk but we earn every dollar we are paid in providing the person with the best adventure they can get for their money.
Its not easy being an outfitter anymore. You got aka trophy hunters, lazy hunters, equipment guru's, and people who don't shoot enough to hunt. But then there's the hunters who come out optimistic and will listen to what you say, give everything they got in physical stamia for the chance to take home a bull elk the way it was meant to be done. I'm taking a dad and his 15yr old daughter this year and I can tell you this I'm so excited to be able to be apart of someone else's first elk hunting memories. Its whats its all about.
To get paid to hunt(not millions and I have to work in the off season), if your a serious hunter and can get along with people who wouldn't want to be a guide? I live 100% for hunting and guiding keeps me in the mountains alot more than if I wasn't an outfitter. Some may see us as ruff shady characters or may see us as master hunters. I prefer to think of myself as the later.
Hunt to live, live to hunt but leave something for the next guy.
This is where outfitters have an advantage over someone wanting to coming elk hunting that has never been in a elk state and viturally has no idea how or where to begin.
I can see both sides. I wouldn't pay thousands of dollars for a controlled hunt where the animal eventually is going to be killed. There are some outfitters I personally would not go with and amazes me they are still in business. I'm not in favor of large private outfitting leases. They take awayfrom the locals and make videos that aren't releastic of everyday hunting adventures. Wether you hunt yourself or with a guide nothing beats elk on public land for self gradification. Elk hunting the real way.
One 6x6 after three years good job. Most hunters will live entire lifetime of hunting elk on public land and not take home a 6x6 bull of any kind trophy or not. I've know men that have hunted over ten years and not brought an elk home. Outfitters know the game they know the terrain hot, dry, cold, wet, won't bugle, scattered, or bunched most know how to react to the situation and where the elk will be on that particular day. The rest is right situation setup and luck if the big boy presents a shot that day.
I'm proud to be an outfitter on public land in Colorado. We don't always kill every clients elk but we earn every dollar we are paid in providing the person with the best adventure they can get for their money.
Its not easy being an outfitter anymore. You got aka trophy hunters, lazy hunters, equipment guru's, and people who don't shoot enough to hunt. But then there's the hunters who come out optimistic and will listen to what you say, give everything they got in physical stamia for the chance to take home a bull elk the way it was meant to be done. I'm taking a dad and his 15yr old daughter this year and I can tell you this I'm so excited to be able to be apart of someone else's first elk hunting memories. Its whats its all about.
To get paid to hunt(not millions and I have to work in the off season), if your a serious hunter and can get along with people who wouldn't want to be a guide? I live 100% for hunting and guiding keeps me in the mountains alot more than if I wasn't an outfitter. Some may see us as ruff shady characters or may see us as master hunters. I prefer to think of myself as the later.
Hunt to live, live to hunt but leave something for the next guy.
This is where outfitters have an advantage over someone wanting to coming elk hunting that has never been in a elk state and viturally has no idea how or where to begin.
The part in bold is exactly what I am talking about, when I say that people have gotten Lazy! As a hunter, you have earned the animals that you take because you have put the time in to learnthe habits/tendencies/seasonal movements of these animals, and the terrain in which they live. Where as your clients are just paying you for your knowledge so that they dont have to really put in any effort other than hike the hills and shoot the animal. They really dont need to know anything but what you tell them, and the following year they will be just as stupid about how these animals behave as they were before (No respect for the animals thattheyharvest!).In my opinion,the adventureof a lifetime is the one that you make for yourself, not the ones that you pay someone elseto provide for you.
02-17-2007, 05:30 AM
#16
Typical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location:
Posts: 549
RE: Guides and Outfitters aren't really worth it!
I've taken some mighty adapt hunters over the years that can even make me question my hunting skills. I believe alot of people that book hunts with outfitters would rather not invest time and money in the gear it takes to hunt where I hunt.
Would like to haul horses from PA to Co everyyear?
Rent a horse from a guy and didn't know if it was sound?
Haul trailer loads of tents and gear and pack it in on your back?
Your job lets you have a week to get to CO, you drive two days, set up camp, tear down camp, pack it all out and drive home 2 days, you hunted what 1 maybe 2 days?
No Charliebrown is right to invest in enough equipment to go on your own its going to cost extra. I"m not talking about the winnebago guys that haul all the way out here and use atv's and jeeps to hunt. I'm talking about the guys that take the high road in life and pack in.
If you don't have horses and someday you get way back in there and kill an elk your gonna wish you had a buddy that has horses. We do alot of drop camps where we put people in good area's and they hunt on their own. But the quality is not the same as a guided hunt where if the area goes sour for a day or two they don't have the mobility to travel good enough to get in the next herd.
Yes it pisses me off when CORPORATE outfitters lease up tons of private land and local people especially the youth hunters lose their hunting spots. Let me tell you this private land elk hunting is nothing like public land hunting. The elk aren't harrassed, I rented a mountain pasture only 80 arces up inthe mountains near our stables for horses. We go in there about three times a year and bust some bulls and leave. No challenge no big deal elk would come back next week. That was 80 acres can you imagine how a well manage herd of elk would be to hunt on 20,000 acres?It would be like shooting fish out of a barrel.
We have a neighbor unit that is a quality elk unit for draw only. Totally limited area for numbers of hunters. And I quarantee you this not even half walk out of the woods with a 6x6 bull. Are they there? Oh yeah. Guided or not guided its not that easy to kill big bulls every year even in a trophy area.
Trophy to some means they killed what they were after. To others it means the biggest animal money can buy. Somewhere in the middle is where most hunters are. If I had millions would I still outfit? I think so its in the blood. Would I book a hunt in a different state so all I had to do is show up with my personal gear and hunt? Hell yeah who wouldn't?
I think its time to get off outfitters especially public land outfitters and give these canned hunt guys some grief. If you want to try and help the hunting image get rid of them guys that create a bad image of hunting. For those of us that work for our money your barking up the wrong tree. The cat done back tracked you.
Would like to haul horses from PA to Co everyyear?
Rent a horse from a guy and didn't know if it was sound?
Haul trailer loads of tents and gear and pack it in on your back?
Your job lets you have a week to get to CO, you drive two days, set up camp, tear down camp, pack it all out and drive home 2 days, you hunted what 1 maybe 2 days?
No Charliebrown is right to invest in enough equipment to go on your own its going to cost extra. I"m not talking about the winnebago guys that haul all the way out here and use atv's and jeeps to hunt. I'm talking about the guys that take the high road in life and pack in.
If you don't have horses and someday you get way back in there and kill an elk your gonna wish you had a buddy that has horses. We do alot of drop camps where we put people in good area's and they hunt on their own. But the quality is not the same as a guided hunt where if the area goes sour for a day or two they don't have the mobility to travel good enough to get in the next herd.
Yes it pisses me off when CORPORATE outfitters lease up tons of private land and local people especially the youth hunters lose their hunting spots. Let me tell you this private land elk hunting is nothing like public land hunting. The elk aren't harrassed, I rented a mountain pasture only 80 arces up inthe mountains near our stables for horses. We go in there about three times a year and bust some bulls and leave. No challenge no big deal elk would come back next week. That was 80 acres can you imagine how a well manage herd of elk would be to hunt on 20,000 acres?It would be like shooting fish out of a barrel.
We have a neighbor unit that is a quality elk unit for draw only. Totally limited area for numbers of hunters. And I quarantee you this not even half walk out of the woods with a 6x6 bull. Are they there? Oh yeah. Guided or not guided its not that easy to kill big bulls every year even in a trophy area.
Trophy to some means they killed what they were after. To others it means the biggest animal money can buy. Somewhere in the middle is where most hunters are. If I had millions would I still outfit? I think so its in the blood. Would I book a hunt in a different state so all I had to do is show up with my personal gear and hunt? Hell yeah who wouldn't?
I think its time to get off outfitters especially public land outfitters and give these canned hunt guys some grief. If you want to try and help the hunting image get rid of them guys that create a bad image of hunting. For those of us that work for our money your barking up the wrong tree. The cat done back tracked you.
02-17-2007, 03:24 PM
#17
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 106
RE: Guides and Outfitters aren't really worth it!
I have two good friends that are damn good lawyers that got registered by the state bar in wyoming just so that they could file a law suit against that very thing. They didn't want to spend the money to have someone else fight thier fight. This suit is going to be filed this summer..so hang onZenThis is giong to get nasty. The individual states can regulate the season but not who can usethe land that is federally protected.. This was brought to thier attention and they replied that there had been zero opposition or resistance to this restriction.I'm not going to getinto a debate over this just a little is all.
02-17-2007, 05:04 PM
#18
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location:
Posts: 5,180
RE: Guides and Outfitters aren't really worth it!
the part in bold is exactly what I am talking about, when I say that people have gotten Lazy! As a hunter, you have earned the animals that you take because you have put the time in to learnthe habits/tendencies/seasonal movements of these animals, and the terrain in which they live. Where as your clients are just paying you for your knowledge so that they dont have to really put in any effort other than hike the hills and shoot the animal. They really dont need to know anything but what you tell them, and the following year they will be just as stupid about how these animals behave as they were before (No respect for the animals thattheyharvest!).In my opinion,the adventureof a lifetime is the one that you make for yourself, not the ones that you pay someone elseto provide for you.
[/quote]
I can agree with that. A lot of hunters are lazy and dont want to work for it so they pay someone to show them where they are just so they cn squeeze teh trigger and take back a head. Cherokee dont take me wrong for agreeing with the other guy but hunters have gotten lazy and it is easier to pay for a guide and get a head to put up on the wall. But as for hunting elk or mule deer or even antelope in CO, Its pretty much like shooting a cow in a slaughter house. Even the DOW will give out maps and info of units with good animals and where they usually run.
[/quote]
I can agree with that. A lot of hunters are lazy and dont want to work for it so they pay someone to show them where they are just so they cn squeeze teh trigger and take back a head. Cherokee dont take me wrong for agreeing with the other guy but hunters have gotten lazy and it is easier to pay for a guide and get a head to put up on the wall. But as for hunting elk or mule deer or even antelope in CO, Its pretty much like shooting a cow in a slaughter house. Even the DOW will give out maps and info of units with good animals and where they usually run.
02-18-2007, 12:56 AM
#19
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 9
RE: Guides and Outfitters aren't really worth it!
Here's the thing, I realize that most outfitters work hard for the money they make..no argument here. I dont even like my hunting partner, I just like the way he hunts!!! (007 you know what this means / inside joke), let alone taking perfect strangers in the woods for a week at a time. The problem I have, is that as an outfitter by taking care of lodging/food/know how of getting into animals and ultimately putting people into situations to harvest animals, your are essentially turning big game hunting from a sport that actually takes alot of: personal skill, patience, knowledge,financial investment,and to a certian degree right of passage or learning by mistakes.... and you are turning into something that is, if you have the money to spend anyone can do it their first time out. To me, if someone wanted nothing else, and thought of nothing but harvesting a Bull elk, of any kind, they would make time to drive out from pensilvania or where ever with what ever kind of equipment they needed and spend the time in the woods learning how to hunt these wonderful animals no matter how many years or seasons it took. By the way, I hauled my elk out over 2 miles and 2000verticalfeeton my back over a two day period, and yes I wished I had horses, but I would not have traded that part of my season for anything else, because that is MY Elk!
02-18-2007, 06:47 AM
#20
Typical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location:
Posts: 549
RE: Guides and Outfitters aren't really worth it!
Zen,
I just deleted a long thread to you. Here's what I think personally not professionally. Are you doing anything about making hunting better for the next guy? If not then who gives a **** what you think.I'm personally a conservation minded hunter that fights for other hunters rights. And here you are trying to degrade the rights of another's hunters way of life. Shame on you there's a bigger fight out there and you can't see what it is then you are clueless in the ways of preserving hunting.
I can't stand CORPORATE OUTFITTERS but I don't sit here and try and take away their image. Becuase in the end we are going to need all the hunters to stand up for our rights.
In truth good luck in all your future adventures and may there be opportunities for you to hunt for a long time. See ya in the backcountry.
I just deleted a long thread to you. Here's what I think personally not professionally. Are you doing anything about making hunting better for the next guy? If not then who gives a **** what you think.I'm personally a conservation minded hunter that fights for other hunters rights. And here you are trying to degrade the rights of another's hunters way of life. Shame on you there's a bigger fight out there and you can't see what it is then you are clueless in the ways of preserving hunting.
I can't stand CORPORATE OUTFITTERS but I don't sit here and try and take away their image. Becuase in the end we are going to need all the hunters to stand up for our rights.
In truth good luck in all your future adventures and may there be opportunities for you to hunt for a long time. See ya in the backcountry.