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Old 03-07-2009, 11:47 PM   #1
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Default Lead Shot Ducks Example


Here is a very very simple example as why lead shot from shotguns is getting banned. There is a lot more information that goes into these models, but it can get very complicated. These are numbers that we used in a wildlife dynamics/statistics class at Oregon State University. This is just an example and does not represent any area.

Maximum adult ducks supported by reserve (food limitation): 40,000
Maximum territories (nest sites on reserve): 1,000
Maximum ducklings produced per pair with territory: 16
(These are just the maximums and does not mean the numbers will be reached)
Density dependent relationship- duckling production(Ricker scramble)

Male Annual Survival Rate
Duckling: 25%
1 Year-old: 60%
2 Year-old: 60%
3 Year-old: 70%
Adult: 80%

Female Annual Survival Rate
Duckling: 25%
1 Year-old: 60%
2 Year-old: 60%
3 Year-old: 70%
Adult: 85%

Suppose the maximum number of ducks allowed to be shot without over-harvesting would be 550 male 1 year-olds and 650 female 1 year-old ducks. That would be a total harvest of 1,200 ducks with a biomass of 900kg. If lead shot from shotgun shells has reduced the fertility of your ducks, cutting their annual duckling production in half. With cutting the annual duckling production in half from 25% to 13%; our harvest goes down. The maximum harvest goes down to 110 male 1year-olds and 210 female 1 year-olds. The total harvest is now only 320 ducks with a biomass of 240kg. I choose both male and female 1 year-olds to gain the maximum harvest and maximum biomass without making the population go extinct. I know that it would be impossible to only take 1 year-olds, but this is only an example. This would only happen if lead shot was bad enough to decrease duckling production 50% in this bird reserve that allowed duck hunting. Hunting that want to hunt for years to come and let generations after them enjoy the same benefits would understand why some places are banning lead shot. Remember this is only an example that does not say every place lead shot is used is going to decrease duckling production down 50%

This is just a very simple example for the hunters that don"t understand how much lead shot in the environment can really affect wildlife. We all know that it is bad, but this may show you how bad it really can be.
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Old 03-09-2009, 06:42 AM   #2
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Default RE: Lead Shot Ducks Example

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ORIGINAL: blacktail slayer


"is getting banned."

Is there still a place in the US where it is still legal to use? Thought lead was already banned years ago?
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Old 03-09-2009, 06:53 AM   #3
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Default RE: Lead Shot Ducks Example

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ORIGINAL: Major Woods

Quote:
ORIGINAL: blacktail slayer


"is getting banned."

Is there still a place in the US where it is still legal to use? Thought lead was already banned years ago?
Sorry I wasn't more clear. Yes lead is banned for waterfowl in the U.S. , but this was just a duck model we used as an example in class. This was not an actual research project or paper. Lead can still be used for other game here in Oregon. There is a push for total lead ban for all animals in WA I believe. Not sure if it will happen or not. This was just an example to show how bad lead can be.
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Old 03-11-2009, 11:43 AM   #4
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Default RE: Lead Shot Ducks Example

I am a total layman when it comes to this, but I would have a very very hard time believing that lead rifle rounds have any measurable affect on the environment. Whitetail hunters can go years without firing a shot. I hunted 13 years before I shot my first deer. I got two this year, and on the second the round didn't pass through the animal. So in my 13 total years of deer hunting I have put exactly 165 grains of bullet into the environment, a fraction of that being lead and the remainder being the copper jacket.

Also, waterfowl hunting puts a lot of shot into the water where it can contaminate the drinking supply, and animals that feed from the bottom can ingest them. A round fired at a deer will be lodged in the dirt, frequently in some wooded area where it will never harm anything.
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Old 03-13-2009, 06:38 PM   #5
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Default RE: Lead Shot Ducks Example

I understand your example as it relates to studies and what not, but when it comes to tangible evidence of the effects of ingested lead pellets in watefowl... it is totally inaccurate.

Most of the studies I have read, list the mortality rate of waterfowl having ingested lead pellets at between 95 and 100%. That said, you'd think that we should go ahead and ban lead... not so at all. The key word being INGESTED. Ducks do not scoop up that many lead pellets... and that is simply because lead is extremely dense, and if you have any current or soft bottom sediment, it will be out of reach of puddle ducks in very short order.... some figures I have read have listed as short as 24 hours if you have a wind in shallow water, and one tide cycle in tidal areas.

I'm not arguing that lead ingested will kill ducks... I'm just stating that it doesn't or didn't happen near as often as people might have thought.


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Old 03-13-2009, 06:52 PM   #6
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Default RE: Lead Shot Ducks Example

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ORIGINAL: Stonewall308

I am a total layman when it comes to this, but I would have a very very hard time believing that lead rifle rounds have any measurable affect on the environment. Whitetail hunters can go years without firing a shot. I hunted 13 years before I shot my first deer. I got two this year, and on the second the round didn't pass through the animal. So in my 13 total years of deer hunting I have put exactly 165 grains of bullet into the environment, a fraction of that being lead and the remainder being the copper jacket.

Also, waterfowl hunting puts a lot of shot into the water where it can contaminate the drinking supply, and animals that feed from the bottom can ingest them. A round fired at a deer will be lodged in the dirt, frequently in some wooded area where it will never harm anything.

This is totally inaccurate. Rifle bullets will actually do much more harm than shotgun pellets, despite being extremely less prevalent. Duck hunters do a lot more missing than deer hunters. With duck hunters, people are concerned about the pellets that don't hit the bird. With deer hunters, you need to be concerned with the bullet that DOES hit the deer.

The Boone and Crockett Club, in conjuction with a couple other agencies, just reported on a study done on the recovery efforts of the Condor and how they have been effected by lead in bullets. Keep in mind here, the Boone and Crockett Club is a pro-hunting organization (if ever one existed... and I am a measurer and a memeber of it).

You'd be shocked how much lead is in an animal you shoot with a jacketed rifle bullet. Even if you hit him in the shoulder... a perfect shot... they took gut piles left by hunters and put them through X-Ray machines and the amount of lead shards they found IN THE GUTS from deer shot thorugh the shoulder and neck areas was often up the 100s of pieces. Now, a condor is bigger than a duck, and the lead measured often in trace amounts far smaller than #4 or #5 shotgun pellets. Here is a situation where lead can slowly lead to infertility and lead poisioning.

Have a look for yourself.


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Old 04-12-2016, 01:41 PM   #7
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Hey brothers from the other side of the world. Ducks lead steel all debated heavily here about 10 years after you guys and gals. Government bent to science and pc with total ban on its use 200 metres from waterways. 20 gauge exempt steel. No quick answers but for sure lead in the food chain nah bad idea. One of those you do or you don't situation with never the two to agree. Have found Remington nitro steel 1 1/4 4 s with ported decoy choke does the job well on both ducks and geese fast dense and hard. All the best from New Zealand. Benny
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Old 04-12-2016, 02:21 PM   #8
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Lead shot, just a few pellets eaten as grit can and will kill waterfowl. There have been examples of waterfowl dying from lead poisoning for years prior to the banning of lead shot for waterfowl. Areas that were heavily shotover had literally tons of lead on the bottom and in shallow areas it is easily accessible to be eaten by waterfowl. I participated in the studies that were done in areas heavily hunted for ducks and geese. I collected hundreds of gizzards and livers from waterfowl killed by waterfowlers on Susquehanna river above safe harbor dam in Lancaster Co. PA. Others in heavily hunted areas of PA did the same kind of collections across the state. When those gizzards and livers were studied the number of gizzards that contained at least one lead shot and the number of livers that contained lead was astounding. I can't speak for lower reproduction because of lead but I doubt it is because of lead shot because it doesn't take much ingested shot to kill a duck, I would rather believe it is because of lead from others sources in the environment. I wasn't pleased when the ban on lead shot was coming to fruition, mainly because the first steel shot was junk, some of the Remington shot was actually joined by a piece of wire from which it was made. I went to Bismuth as soon as it came out and I haven looked back. However, there is no doubt that the disconuing use of lead shot from waterfowl has saved a lot of waterfowl from death from lead poisoning.
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Old 04-17-2016, 08:52 AM   #9
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I can understand why the banned lead but I sure did like using #6 lead for ducks over decoys. It really used to crumple them! I've killed more than my share of waterfowl with steel but it never has seemed to work as well as lead did. But times change and using lead is a thing of the past. It wouldn't surprise me to see them outlaw lead bullets for big and small game in the future either.
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Old 04-17-2016, 11:13 AM   #10
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I used 6s for ducks and geese and it was deadly if you kept your shots in to about 35 yards. When I had to go to non tox I went to Bismuth and I still use it today in #5 for ducks and BB for geese.
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