Stopping a behavior
01-19-2005, 11:21 AM
#1
Typical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Cologne, MN
Posts: 510
Stopping a behavior
I've got a springer (3 years old) and he has grown into a good hunter with excellent nose, retrieves to hand, and generally quarters close. The problem is when a bird flushes and it's a hen or I miss, he likes to take off running for it. I can stop him with a whistle but would prefer that he not even run. Any tips on how to stop this behavior???
01-19-2005, 05:25 PM
#2
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Manning, Iowa
Posts: 307
RE: Stopping a behavior
I will give you a couple of things you can try. I have only ever trained pointing dogs but I think you will find this helpful.
With a Flushing dog I have read about training "sit to flush" meaning the dog will sit after the bird is flushed and while going back to train the would be difficult you could do it. Also as I understand, "sit to flush" helps the dog mark the bird for the retrieve.
Do some retrieving drills with the dog. Give the "sit" command and then the "stay" command. Throw the retrieving dummy or better yet have a helper throw it. If you have a blank pistol to shot incorporate that and shoot as the dummy is in the air. Make the dog sit and stay and let the dummy hit the ground. Only let him retrieve it once you have given the command to fetch. Also sometimes let him get it, some times make him stay while you go and pick it up. This will get him guessing as to which action will get him praise.
Once he is doing good on the above drills use the following to re-enforce the training
Using a check cord (25' long), Take the dog a field with the check cord attached to the collar, a training choke collar works well but a standard collar works too. When the dog finds a bird and it flushes let him take off after it, when he gets to the end of the cord hold the cord firm (wear some leather gloves) and maybe even pull back or walk backward. The dog will be stopped abruptly and maybe even flip end over end. Don't say a word keep quiet and let the check cord do the correction. This way the dog doesn't associate the discomfort of hitting the end of the check cord with you. He only knows it was undesirable.
I think if you try this the dog will be waiting for you to tell him what to do when a bird flushes.
With a Flushing dog I have read about training "sit to flush" meaning the dog will sit after the bird is flushed and while going back to train the would be difficult you could do it. Also as I understand, "sit to flush" helps the dog mark the bird for the retrieve.
Do some retrieving drills with the dog. Give the "sit" command and then the "stay" command. Throw the retrieving dummy or better yet have a helper throw it. If you have a blank pistol to shot incorporate that and shoot as the dummy is in the air. Make the dog sit and stay and let the dummy hit the ground. Only let him retrieve it once you have given the command to fetch. Also sometimes let him get it, some times make him stay while you go and pick it up. This will get him guessing as to which action will get him praise.
Once he is doing good on the above drills use the following to re-enforce the training
Using a check cord (25' long), Take the dog a field with the check cord attached to the collar, a training choke collar works well but a standard collar works too. When the dog finds a bird and it flushes let him take off after it, when he gets to the end of the cord hold the cord firm (wear some leather gloves) and maybe even pull back or walk backward. The dog will be stopped abruptly and maybe even flip end over end. Don't say a word keep quiet and let the check cord do the correction. This way the dog doesn't associate the discomfort of hitting the end of the check cord with you. He only knows it was undesirable.
I think if you try this the dog will be waiting for you to tell him what to do when a bird flushes.
01-26-2005, 02:20 PM
#3
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Rochester MN USA
Posts: 96
RE: Stopping a behavior
I went to a talk by a guy (don't remember his name today) who made his dogs sit when they flushed. He even made the dog come back to him so he could release it from next to him. That way the dog would never get to chase a bird from where he flushed it.
I can't say I got that far, but it seemed interesting.
I can't say I got that far, but it seemed interesting.
01-31-2005, 08:22 AM
#6
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Louisville NE
Posts: 9
RE: Stopping a behavior
I wouldn't recommend you teaching that for the simple fact when you down a bird in thick cover or anytype of cover for that matter and you don't get a dog on that bird it will be gone. I have seen pheasants hit the ground running and if you don't have a dog breaking for them when you shoot you will loose that bird 99% of the time. I have a GSP and when he points a hen out I yell no bird he is tempted to chase but doesn't. I worked with him on cord, hold him and say no bird, when a roster get up or I shoot I would let him chase, it even if I missed. They will understand after some training that if you don't shoot thats not what they were after. After I shoot a bird I don't want to have to worry about releasing my dog to go find the bird, let the dog do that, I have enough to worry about trying to hit birds. Just my two cents and a different opion, hope it made sense.
02-01-2005, 09:22 AM
#7
Typical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Cologne, MN
Posts: 510
RE: Stopping a behavior
Pointerpup, I understand where you are coming from and it certainly was a thought when considering what to do. I'm going to work with him some more and since I've been able to stop him with the whistle maybe I'm making more of it than need be. I've never had a shock collar on him and often wondered if using one to reinforce might work if used on low levels. I know that shock collars, if used improperly, can do more damage than good. Any opinions on that???
02-01-2005, 11:39 AM
#8
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Louisville NE
Posts: 9
RE: Stopping a behavior
I have used a collar on my dog, doesn't take much to make them understand what they aren't supose to do. I don't even need to use the collar now when I go out. I have 7 levels and I don't think I ever went above 4.
02-27-2005, 09:36 AM
#10
Spike
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 18
RE: Stopping a behavior
Hi,
I've owned Springers for most of my life and have helped to train many more. Currently, I have 5 of them in my house.
What you want is to steady your dog to wing and shot. This is considered a skill level for a finished dog. And mostly taught to dogs that will compete in doggie games like Trials and such. But some people like their dogs steady.
But first there are a couple of questions you need to answer for yourself before attemping this.
1. Are you willing to do the ALL the work needed to steady the dog, and All the work needed to keep the dog steady? There is no "halfway" measures here. You are either willing to do this or not. If not, be happy the way your dog works now and save yourself and your dog a lot of hassel, aggravation, and disappointment. Even if you send your dog out to a Pro for steadying, you will need to work to keep the dog there.
2. If you aren't into the doggie games, then are you, (and anyone else who maybe hunting with you), willing to pass on game in the field if your dog even looks like it is going to "break"? Because even just 1 shot over a steady dog that breaks will send you right back to square one in training. And never work your dog with an unsteady brace-mate.
3. Can you get help in your training? Steadying, generally goes best if you have two helpers to gun for you. (you don't carry a gun, you handle the dog during training).
If you can answer yes to all these questions, then perhaps you may decide to do this. If you can't, then I would strongly suggest you don't. As I said earlier, it will save you and your dog a ton of disappointment and heart-break.
I'm not trying to dissuade you from this, but rather I'm trying to help you make a good choice for you and your dog. It does sound like that you have a well trained field dog. And if you can call the dog off a fly-away with a whistle, then you already have a dog that would be welcomed in any hunt.
If you want I can do another post on the steps that you would need to go through to steady your dog. It would be long one though. Even more long winded than this one
!
Dale
I've owned Springers for most of my life and have helped to train many more. Currently, I have 5 of them in my house.
What you want is to steady your dog to wing and shot. This is considered a skill level for a finished dog. And mostly taught to dogs that will compete in doggie games like Trials and such. But some people like their dogs steady.
But first there are a couple of questions you need to answer for yourself before attemping this.
1. Are you willing to do the ALL the work needed to steady the dog, and All the work needed to keep the dog steady? There is no "halfway" measures here. You are either willing to do this or not. If not, be happy the way your dog works now and save yourself and your dog a lot of hassel, aggravation, and disappointment. Even if you send your dog out to a Pro for steadying, you will need to work to keep the dog there.
2. If you aren't into the doggie games, then are you, (and anyone else who maybe hunting with you), willing to pass on game in the field if your dog even looks like it is going to "break"? Because even just 1 shot over a steady dog that breaks will send you right back to square one in training. And never work your dog with an unsteady brace-mate.
3. Can you get help in your training? Steadying, generally goes best if you have two helpers to gun for you. (you don't carry a gun, you handle the dog during training).
If you can answer yes to all these questions, then perhaps you may decide to do this. If you can't, then I would strongly suggest you don't. As I said earlier, it will save you and your dog a ton of disappointment and heart-break.
I'm not trying to dissuade you from this, but rather I'm trying to help you make a good choice for you and your dog. It does sound like that you have a well trained field dog. And if you can call the dog off a fly-away with a whistle, then you already have a dog that would be welcomed in any hunt.
If you want I can do another post on the steps that you would need to go through to steady your dog. It would be long one though. Even more long winded than this one
!Dale