Cheney
02-12-2006, 06:16 PM
#4
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: North Dakota
Posts: 622
RE: Cheney
[quote]ORIGINAL: Posted
I don't think it was Bush's ranch. Heard something like Armstrong Ranch or something like that. Some lady by the name of Armstrong owns it.
[/quote
Yes your right its Armstrong i belive.
I don't think it was Bush's ranch. Heard something like Armstrong Ranch or something like that. Some lady by the name of Armstrong owns it.
[/quote
Yes your right its Armstrong i belive.
02-13-2006, 02:15 AM
#5
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location:
Posts: 104
RE: Cheney
This is pasted right off of Yahoo:
Katharine Armstrong, the ranch's owner, said the accident occurred after Cheney, Whittington and another hunter got out of a car to shoot at a covey of quail.
She said Whittington went to retrieve a bird he shot. Cheney and the third hunter, whom she would not identify, walked to another spot and discovered a second covey of quail.
Whittington "came up from behind the vice president and the other hunter and didn't signal them or indicate to them or announce himself," said Armstrong, who was in the car.
"The vice president didn't see him," she said. "The covey flushed and the vice president picked out a bird and was following it and shot. And by god, Harry was in the line of fire and got peppered pretty good."
LOOK AT THAT!!!! They're making Cheney out to be innocent, like he did NOTHING wrong!!! Isn't it one of the BIGGEST rules of gun safety to be aware of your surroundings?!?! This kind of thing makes me SICK! The vice president of the United States or not, Cheney screwed up! I've hunted quail, pheasant, grouse, and all matter of upland game and I've NEVER had a problem like this! I always know where my fellow hunters are and, if I don't, it is MY responsibility to NOT take a shot. Cheney was negligent, plain and simple. It was HIS responsibility to know where his hunting partners were, whether they "gave him a signal" or not! How could this guy be in the line of fire and NOT be seen?!?! If something, or more importantly, someone were ANYWHERE in front of my shotgun, I think it'd be difficult to NOT see them! I'm not making any of these statements from a political standpoint (I could give a rat's behind about politics... They're all corrupt anyway), I making these statements as a RESPONSIBLE hunter! Cheney was, plain and simple, irresponsible... No ifs, ands, or buts! This is the kind of thing that the anti-hunters are looking for! Due to the statements, making Cheney appear innocent, the anti's are now screaming about how it's the GUNS fault that the guy got shot!
Grrrr.... All this is making my blood pressure rise... Time to relax a bit here and NOT think about idiots in the field[:@]
Katharine Armstrong, the ranch's owner, said the accident occurred after Cheney, Whittington and another hunter got out of a car to shoot at a covey of quail.
She said Whittington went to retrieve a bird he shot. Cheney and the third hunter, whom she would not identify, walked to another spot and discovered a second covey of quail.
Whittington "came up from behind the vice president and the other hunter and didn't signal them or indicate to them or announce himself," said Armstrong, who was in the car.
"The vice president didn't see him," she said. "The covey flushed and the vice president picked out a bird and was following it and shot. And by god, Harry was in the line of fire and got peppered pretty good."
LOOK AT THAT!!!! They're making Cheney out to be innocent, like he did NOTHING wrong!!! Isn't it one of the BIGGEST rules of gun safety to be aware of your surroundings?!?! This kind of thing makes me SICK! The vice president of the United States or not, Cheney screwed up! I've hunted quail, pheasant, grouse, and all matter of upland game and I've NEVER had a problem like this! I always know where my fellow hunters are and, if I don't, it is MY responsibility to NOT take a shot. Cheney was negligent, plain and simple. It was HIS responsibility to know where his hunting partners were, whether they "gave him a signal" or not! How could this guy be in the line of fire and NOT be seen?!?! If something, or more importantly, someone were ANYWHERE in front of my shotgun, I think it'd be difficult to NOT see them! I'm not making any of these statements from a political standpoint (I could give a rat's behind about politics... They're all corrupt anyway), I making these statements as a RESPONSIBLE hunter! Cheney was, plain and simple, irresponsible... No ifs, ands, or buts! This is the kind of thing that the anti-hunters are looking for! Due to the statements, making Cheney appear innocent, the anti's are now screaming about how it's the GUNS fault that the guy got shot!
Grrrr.... All this is making my blood pressure rise... Time to relax a bit here and NOT think about idiots in the field[:@]
02-13-2006, 02:16 AM
#6
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location:
Posts: 137
RE: Cheney
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,184617,00.html
Here is a full version of the story. For those who don't read it: Basically what happens is one guy shoots a quail. Cheney and another guy head off after another covey. The first guy is coming up behind them without announcing his presence. Cheney then turns to shoot a quail and shoots him on accident. No excuses for what happened, but the full story is a little better than what you are gonna get from most news sources considering Cheney's political affiliations.
Here is a full version of the story. For those who don't read it: Basically what happens is one guy shoots a quail. Cheney and another guy head off after another covey. The first guy is coming up behind them without announcing his presence. Cheney then turns to shoot a quail and shoots him on accident. No excuses for what happened, but the full story is a little better than what you are gonna get from most news sources considering Cheney's political affiliations.
02-13-2006, 10:40 AM
#8
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location:
Posts: 137
RE: Cheney
ORIGINAL: RWK
The guy that got shot must of looked like he was from IRAQ.
The guy that got shot must of looked like he was from IRAQ.
In all seriousness, he needs to take responsibility for this accident. I have to admit my first instinct was to make excuses for him considering I'm a staunch conservative. But in all reality, he made a serious mistake in a sport where lack of awareness can mean the loss of someone's life. I'm not saying that I haven't made mistakes before and had close calls, but you can't lay the blame solely on the other guy. Maybe a little for not announcing himself, but nevertheless, Cheney is ultimately responsible for making sure his shot-path is clear.
02-14-2006, 07:37 PM
#9
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1
RE: Cheney
Hi, I'm a non-hunter who is curious about how things are done. First off, we're all at the mercy of the media to find out what really happened out there on the Armstrong Ranch (unless any of you are hunting buddies with Cheney). So going on the reporting from the press, and the most details I've read are at:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...021302163.html
At first it (the media in general, not the above article) was said that Whittington left the party to retrieve his bird, then returned to the hunting party without announcing his return (ergo, it was largely his fault). But Whittington was hit at 30 yards. That's a really long way to be announcing one's presence. You'd have to yell pretty loud to be heard. Do hunter use whistles to signal? I listened to Cheney's interview with Jim Lehrer the other night, and he's a really softspoken guy (in terms of decibels). I sure couldn't have heard him at a hundred feet. Don't know about Whittington.
Assuming for a moment that there was culpability on the part of Whittington, isn't it the responsibility of the hunter to know everything that's in the path of his bullet/shot? When my dad taught me to shoot a pistol, he made sure I never shot downhill and never let the bullets fly where I didn't know where they'd land. I was terrified last Labor Day when I was cycling on a Forest Service road and bullets were flying through the air across the gravel road just ahead of me. There were people shooting from uphill down to the road. It wasn't clear if they just didn't care where they were shooting. I assume they weren't trying to kill me, but I did wonder at the time (I wound up hiding behind a tree, then racing away back the way I'd come).
On public land, I'm pretty sure that a deer hunter would be responsible for firing at a deer if a person were in front or behind the deer he was aiming at. Is it different when you're hunting on a private ranch where access is controlled? Or is bird hunting different?
Clearly, it's a tragic accident. It's really hard to discuss the topic with people since their personal politics (either side) seems to enter in. I try and discuss this saying 'remove Dick Cheney' from the discussion in terms of understanding what happened. Few people seem to be able to do that. Though I have to admit that it's because he's the VP that it brings the matter to more attention than had it been a John Q. Public. I guess what it boils down to... is that since the VP shot a guy, what is the reality of hunting situations when it's NOT the VP under consideration.
Thanks for helping me learn!
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...021302163.html
At first it (the media in general, not the above article) was said that Whittington left the party to retrieve his bird, then returned to the hunting party without announcing his return (ergo, it was largely his fault). But Whittington was hit at 30 yards. That's a really long way to be announcing one's presence. You'd have to yell pretty loud to be heard. Do hunter use whistles to signal? I listened to Cheney's interview with Jim Lehrer the other night, and he's a really softspoken guy (in terms of decibels). I sure couldn't have heard him at a hundred feet. Don't know about Whittington.
Assuming for a moment that there was culpability on the part of Whittington, isn't it the responsibility of the hunter to know everything that's in the path of his bullet/shot? When my dad taught me to shoot a pistol, he made sure I never shot downhill and never let the bullets fly where I didn't know where they'd land. I was terrified last Labor Day when I was cycling on a Forest Service road and bullets were flying through the air across the gravel road just ahead of me. There were people shooting from uphill down to the road. It wasn't clear if they just didn't care where they were shooting. I assume they weren't trying to kill me, but I did wonder at the time (I wound up hiding behind a tree, then racing away back the way I'd come).
On public land, I'm pretty sure that a deer hunter would be responsible for firing at a deer if a person were in front or behind the deer he was aiming at. Is it different when you're hunting on a private ranch where access is controlled? Or is bird hunting different?
Clearly, it's a tragic accident. It's really hard to discuss the topic with people since their personal politics (either side) seems to enter in. I try and discuss this saying 'remove Dick Cheney' from the discussion in terms of understanding what happened. Few people seem to be able to do that. Though I have to admit that it's because he's the VP that it brings the matter to more attention than had it been a John Q. Public. I guess what it boils down to... is that since the VP shot a guy, what is the reality of hunting situations when it's NOT the VP under consideration.
Thanks for helping me learn!
02-14-2006, 08:59 PM
#10
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location:
Posts: 698
RE: Cheney
it is an unfortunate accident. But i am sure that is what it was.
Now what happens?
I have a saftey speach with everyone before the hunt. Most professional guides do a great job of keeping folks together and making others aware of where the dog/guide/others are at all times.
If any good can come out of this i hope everyone will be more carefull on thier next hunting trip.
Now what happens?
I have a saftey speach with everyone before the hunt. Most professional guides do a great job of keeping folks together and making others aware of where the dog/guide/others are at all times.
If any good can come out of this i hope everyone will be more carefull on thier next hunting trip.