Easterns vs Merriams vs Rios vs Oceolas
01-31-2005, 07:21 PM
#1
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Easterns vs Merriams vs Rios vs Oceolas
I would like to start a discussion on each specie and then compare and contrast.
by that I mean each who has hunted any given specie let us know the difference you have found. Things like do Rios gobble more tha Merriams? Which is a tougher bird to hunt not becaue of population numbers but more of sub specie versus sub specie.
Things like the calls you use, the terrain you hunt and each species habits can be discussed and compared.
I have a few who I know hunt Osceolas and will invite them here. I can only really relate to Easterns though I have hunted Rios twice.
This discussion is for all alike. Newbie to Novice to Pro.
So anyone want to start?
JW
by that I mean each who has hunted any given specie let us know the difference you have found. Things like do Rios gobble more tha Merriams? Which is a tougher bird to hunt not becaue of population numbers but more of sub specie versus sub specie.
Things like the calls you use, the terrain you hunt and each species habits can be discussed and compared.
I have a few who I know hunt Osceolas and will invite them here. I can only really relate to Easterns though I have hunted Rios twice.
This discussion is for all alike. Newbie to Novice to Pro.
So anyone want to start?
JW
01-31-2005, 08:05 PM
#2
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: NewLowell ,Ontario ,Canada
Posts: 2,765
RE: Easterns vs Merriams vs Rios vs Oceolas
Boy JW , why in the world would you have to ask a thousand questions in one post [8D] and at this time of night 
Yes I have hunted them all and it is hard to discribe the difference after you have hunted them all a number of different times. Because like every hunter out there that enters the turkey woods , every hunt tends to be different no matter what kind of Sub Specie you hunt. The biggest difference that I have endured in hunting these different type birds is more leaned to the terrain. As for calls , well all the same calls tend to work.
Merriams tend to Gobble well and as well like to walk 6 thousand miles an hour up and down darn Mountains and fat arse like me just gets plain wore out trying to keep up.
Rio's love to Gobble and the calling seems to be a little more frequent to keep their intrest. Your all the time Dodging rattlesnakes and when thay comit to your calls There coming.
Osceloa's are a little mellower birds and the sounds of the gobbles are sometimes hard to hear because of the folage that they tend to stay in. These birds in my opinion have the best Eye sight as they seem to beable to see Hundreds of years away. When ya chase them you have a hard time walkign fast in the sand and seem to take 2 steps for everyone you would somewhere else. I find too in Mid days the heat in the sand tends to be hot on your feet with the hunting boots.
Easterns , well they will never change , they tend to be the loudest birds and very cocky at trying to work at times. I find the eastern the most aggressive sub out of them all , they will fight each other more often then what I have seen from the others.
As too how hard are these different Sub's. Well they all seem to have their challenge , but its more to the terrain then the bird it self...BT
Yes I have hunted them all and it is hard to discribe the difference after you have hunted them all a number of different times. Because like every hunter out there that enters the turkey woods , every hunt tends to be different no matter what kind of Sub Specie you hunt. The biggest difference that I have endured in hunting these different type birds is more leaned to the terrain. As for calls , well all the same calls tend to work.
Merriams tend to Gobble well and as well like to walk 6 thousand miles an hour up and down darn Mountains and fat arse like me just gets plain wore out trying to keep up.
Rio's love to Gobble and the calling seems to be a little more frequent to keep their intrest. Your all the time Dodging rattlesnakes and when thay comit to your calls There coming.
Osceloa's are a little mellower birds and the sounds of the gobbles are sometimes hard to hear because of the folage that they tend to stay in. These birds in my opinion have the best Eye sight as they seem to beable to see Hundreds of years away. When ya chase them you have a hard time walkign fast in the sand and seem to take 2 steps for everyone you would somewhere else. I find too in Mid days the heat in the sand tends to be hot on your feet with the hunting boots.
Easterns , well they will never change , they tend to be the loudest birds and very cocky at trying to work at times. I find the eastern the most aggressive sub out of them all , they will fight each other more often then what I have seen from the others.
As too how hard are these different Sub's. Well they all seem to have their challenge , but its more to the terrain then the bird it self...BT
02-01-2005, 06:26 AM
#3
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RE: Easterns vs Merriams vs Rios vs Oceolas
Well I have really only hunted Easterns enough to really comment here!
I have hunted Rios twice.
To me each was the same as far as calling.
The terrain I hunt is farm fields, hard woods, cedar swamps with a smattering of ridges and ravines. Hunt for them in Wis, Mich, & Iowa. Only states I have been too. In Michigan we tend to do more Run and Gun but in Wisconsin and Iowa it is more scouting and pick a spot to just sit and wait them out.
I have Easterns where aggressive calling (cutting) worked better than soft clucks but have been told in high pressure states that soft clucking or yelping works better. In Mich we ususally get opening season while in Wisconsin we hunt very late almost the last season. Non - pressured birds seem to be easier to call.
Lately most of my Eastern Tom's I have harvested was not from calling the Tom but calling to the hens with the Tom and getting one hen to answer me. At least the last 5 Toms had hens and each time it was the Hen who brought me the Tom.
Though some don't agree later in the season a silent dog whistle works well for me while doing late evening roosting. At least in my Central area of Wisconsin. Important fact is the very best time is the last 10 minutes of light. Watch the Red-wing blackbirds. When they leave the wire and hit the groudn to roost you had better get moving.
In Michigan the same tactic does not work. In fact in 20 years of hunting them I have had only one vocal late evening Tom - take that back 2! It is the wing beat from picking a good roost area you hear.
Michigan hunting for me is cedar swamps with hard woood eges and a few fields. One fact is when Michigan started a Fall hunt it changed the Spring behavior of the birds. By that I mean one could stop the car and glass and it would not bother the birds in the far distant field edge. Now slow the car down even a little bit and they are gone!
another fact that during the lull of the day we had a hard time finding birds. Guess what? You might just find them in the smack middle of a very wet Ceadr swamp! And on the ground.
Easterns in both states Gobble at different times. As it has been written around 10 to 2 Pm is really the best time to find that lonesome Tom given the hens are nest building. I find this true in both states. Toms henned up are tough to get unless you can draw the hens to you.
Most Easterns I have harvested have not been older than 3 years old. I look at spurs more than the length of the beard. Weight of the birds in each state for a mature bird is around 20 =/- 5 lbs. Biggest bird I have taken in weight was from Iowa, Was 27 lbs. Michigan birds don't get much above 20 lbs. Now I do hunt Michigan in the far north - Da YouPee!
My Wisconsin birds run bewteen 20 to 25 lbs.
Now the Rios I had a chance to hunt last year. Was early season and the Toms where in bunches with bunches of hens. There was much jostling for dominance as the birds hit the ground. Then the whole flock split in groups of 3 to 15 birds. There was about 70 total. We did an end around hike and found groups of good Toms - 2 to 3 in a group. It was one 3 some I called in that I got a good mature Tom.
The second day was similar for me in the Midwest states. Birds did hit the gorund but went after the hens and away from me. They where as vocal as the Easterns. I chose to sit and wait them out. About 9 AM when I saw the hens leave these 3 Toms I did get the Toms back across the 102 acres and back to me. It was with much coaxing throuhg soft and subtle calls to down right agressive calling. I plumb about burnt up a box call.
To me I have had similar situations hunting Easterns.
Now why did I start this thread?
I wanna learn as much as I can about Merriams and Osceolas.
JW
I have hunted Rios twice.
To me each was the same as far as calling.
The terrain I hunt is farm fields, hard woods, cedar swamps with a smattering of ridges and ravines. Hunt for them in Wis, Mich, & Iowa. Only states I have been too. In Michigan we tend to do more Run and Gun but in Wisconsin and Iowa it is more scouting and pick a spot to just sit and wait them out.
I have Easterns where aggressive calling (cutting) worked better than soft clucks but have been told in high pressure states that soft clucking or yelping works better. In Mich we ususally get opening season while in Wisconsin we hunt very late almost the last season. Non - pressured birds seem to be easier to call.
Lately most of my Eastern Tom's I have harvested was not from calling the Tom but calling to the hens with the Tom and getting one hen to answer me. At least the last 5 Toms had hens and each time it was the Hen who brought me the Tom.
Though some don't agree later in the season a silent dog whistle works well for me while doing late evening roosting. At least in my Central area of Wisconsin. Important fact is the very best time is the last 10 minutes of light. Watch the Red-wing blackbirds. When they leave the wire and hit the groudn to roost you had better get moving.
In Michigan the same tactic does not work. In fact in 20 years of hunting them I have had only one vocal late evening Tom - take that back 2! It is the wing beat from picking a good roost area you hear.
Michigan hunting for me is cedar swamps with hard woood eges and a few fields. One fact is when Michigan started a Fall hunt it changed the Spring behavior of the birds. By that I mean one could stop the car and glass and it would not bother the birds in the far distant field edge. Now slow the car down even a little bit and they are gone!
another fact that during the lull of the day we had a hard time finding birds. Guess what? You might just find them in the smack middle of a very wet Ceadr swamp! And on the ground.
Easterns in both states Gobble at different times. As it has been written around 10 to 2 Pm is really the best time to find that lonesome Tom given the hens are nest building. I find this true in both states. Toms henned up are tough to get unless you can draw the hens to you.
Most Easterns I have harvested have not been older than 3 years old. I look at spurs more than the length of the beard. Weight of the birds in each state for a mature bird is around 20 =/- 5 lbs. Biggest bird I have taken in weight was from Iowa, Was 27 lbs. Michigan birds don't get much above 20 lbs. Now I do hunt Michigan in the far north - Da YouPee!
My Wisconsin birds run bewteen 20 to 25 lbs.
Now the Rios I had a chance to hunt last year. Was early season and the Toms where in bunches with bunches of hens. There was much jostling for dominance as the birds hit the ground. Then the whole flock split in groups of 3 to 15 birds. There was about 70 total. We did an end around hike and found groups of good Toms - 2 to 3 in a group. It was one 3 some I called in that I got a good mature Tom.
The second day was similar for me in the Midwest states. Birds did hit the gorund but went after the hens and away from me. They where as vocal as the Easterns. I chose to sit and wait them out. About 9 AM when I saw the hens leave these 3 Toms I did get the Toms back across the 102 acres and back to me. It was with much coaxing throuhg soft and subtle calls to down right agressive calling. I plumb about burnt up a box call.
To me I have had similar situations hunting Easterns.
Now why did I start this thread?
I wanna learn as much as I can about Merriams and Osceolas.
JW
02-01-2005, 10:15 AM
#4
Join Date: Feb 2003
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RE: Easterns vs Merriams vs Rios vs Oceolas
I have hunted all three and I have hunted Rio's, Merriam's and Easterns in multiple states. As far as which is tougher to kill. To me it is all about pressure, birds that get more pressure are tougher to kill.
Specific differences to me are Merriam's and Rio's are more likely to be in larger groups and multiple toms. This does help to increase the competition factor and may be a reason the are more responsive to a call. However, I still believe it is largely a factor of they are usually hunted less.
Osceolas are tough birds to kill, but not as tough as they are often portrayed. They do gobble less, but will gobble and work a call. I have also killed a few Osceolas that were racing to my call. I believe that they are harder to hear. The heavy air and thick foilage eats up gobbles, so they may gobble as much as Easterns we just here them less.
Easterns are generally the toughest bird, but they are also the birds that I hunt that have and continue to receive the most pressure. They gobble a lot, but are more reluctant to come to a call.
That is the biggest difference to me. Pressurred birds don't walk as far to see a hen. I also believe out west the birds are at a slight disadvantage because you can often see them in the distance, but you have enough terrain to make a move which would put you in a better position to kill them.
Specific differences to me are Merriam's and Rio's are more likely to be in larger groups and multiple toms. This does help to increase the competition factor and may be a reason the are more responsive to a call. However, I still believe it is largely a factor of they are usually hunted less.
Osceolas are tough birds to kill, but not as tough as they are often portrayed. They do gobble less, but will gobble and work a call. I have also killed a few Osceolas that were racing to my call. I believe that they are harder to hear. The heavy air and thick foilage eats up gobbles, so they may gobble as much as Easterns we just here them less.
Easterns are generally the toughest bird, but they are also the birds that I hunt that have and continue to receive the most pressure. They gobble a lot, but are more reluctant to come to a call.
That is the biggest difference to me. Pressurred birds don't walk as far to see a hen. I also believe out west the birds are at a slight disadvantage because you can often see them in the distance, but you have enough terrain to make a move which would put you in a better position to kill them.
02-02-2005, 06:00 AM
#5
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RE: Easterns vs Merriams vs Rios vs Oceolas
Okay guys/gals - how about bad weather?
What I find with Easterns is that if it is raining hard or is constant I hunt field edges more as the birds move out into the open.
Wind is another factor. Windy days can be tough - but then again any day out in the field is worth it! I hunt and look for valleys to help reduce the wind factor.
How about the other species?
JW
What I find with Easterns is that if it is raining hard or is constant I hunt field edges more as the birds move out into the open.
Wind is another factor. Windy days can be tough - but then again any day out in the field is worth it! I hunt and look for valleys to help reduce the wind factor.
How about the other species?
JW
02-02-2005, 12:19 PM
#6
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RE: Easterns vs Merriams vs Rios vs Oceolas
Weather seems to affect Easterns worse than the others, but again this might be the pressure issue. I have killed gobbling Merriam's in 16 inches of snow, Rio's gobbling like crazy in 35 mph winds and Osceolas running to me in 20 mph winds.
02-04-2005, 06:03 AM
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RE: Easterns vs Merriams vs Rios vs Oceolas
I find that the Eastern hens can be very vocal and mnay different times during any of the times I have hunted them through the season. If you can really make one mad she will come marching right in and thus bring Mr. Tom with her!
I have had hens attack my decoys more than Toms in the past 5 years.
Trick is to mimic her note for note and cluck for cluck. She talks you talk. She get louder you get louder, she stops you stop callin', she starts cut her off and call back. About the 3rd time look out as her she comes lookin' to kick you butt!
JW
I have had hens attack my decoys more than Toms in the past 5 years.
Trick is to mimic her note for note and cluck for cluck. She talks you talk. She get louder you get louder, she stops you stop callin', she starts cut her off and call back. About the 3rd time look out as her she comes lookin' to kick you butt!
JW
02-04-2005, 11:55 AM
#9
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Posts: 240
RE: Easterns vs Merriams vs Rios vs Oceolas
Based on my limited experience:
most vocal toms: rios and merriams
least vocal toms: easterns (I've only hunted south eastern ones)
most responsive to calls: rios then merriams (west is best for evoking gobbles)
least responsive to calls: easterns
most wandering: merriams
most predictable: rios
most thunderous gobble: easterns and osceolas
most ghostlike gobble: merriams
best spurs: osceolas
worst spurs and beards: merriams
most mosquitos and gators: osceolas
Hal
most vocal toms: rios and merriams
least vocal toms: easterns (I've only hunted south eastern ones)
most responsive to calls: rios then merriams (west is best for evoking gobbles)
least responsive to calls: easterns
most wandering: merriams
most predictable: rios
most thunderous gobble: easterns and osceolas
most ghostlike gobble: merriams
best spurs: osceolas
worst spurs and beards: merriams
most mosquitos and gators: osceolas
Hal
02-04-2005, 12:26 PM
#10
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Posts: 27
RE: Easterns vs Merriams vs Rios vs Oceolas
I have hunted all four. All of them off public land When you hunt public land turkeys don't act like the turkeys you see on hunting shows. As far as public land goes Merriams seem like they gobble more and are a little easier
I really think that as far as wich one is harder to hunt. I think it has everything to do with how much pressure the turkey's you hunt get! That being said Easterns get my vote for the toughest turkeys to hunt! If I could only pick one it would be a no brainer EASTERNS strickly becuase I like a challenge
When you hunt public land turkeys don't act like the turkeys you see on hunting shows. As far as public land goes Merriams seem like they gobble more and are a little easierI really think that as far as wich one is harder to hunt. I think it has everything to do with how much pressure the turkey's you hunt get! That being said Easterns get my vote for the toughest turkeys to hunt! If I could only pick one it would be a no brainer EASTERNS strickly becuase I like a challenge