Hevi shot is impressive!
05-26-2013, 03:37 PM
#31
Fork Horn
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 161
Adrian,
Those are some nice patterns for a 20GA. But I will also say none of those patterns you posted and that includes the ones you showed with the 7's are 60yd turkey killers. Granted you can get lucky and kill one with a lucky pellet. But at a bare minimum you would need at least 260 in the 10", and that's providing you only lose 80 from 40yds to 50yds and the exact same from 50yds to 60yds. And that would give you the minimum 100 in the 10" at that distance. But that's not guaranteed. You may need a 300 pattern in the 10" at 40yds to hit the 100 min at 60yds if you lose 100 shot from 40yds to 50yds and another 100 shot from 50yds to 60yds. I would at least want to shoot at 50yds to see what you had at that distance to even think I had a 60yd killer. But your terminology of what it takes to make a 60yd gun is apparently different than my standard or you would'nt have shot the bird you showed at what you say was 60yds in the first place even though you got lucky and found a lucky shot going off of your 40yds #6 patterns at 40yds.
Those are some nice patterns for a 20GA. But I will also say none of those patterns you posted and that includes the ones you showed with the 7's are 60yd turkey killers. Granted you can get lucky and kill one with a lucky pellet. But at a bare minimum you would need at least 260 in the 10", and that's providing you only lose 80 from 40yds to 50yds and the exact same from 50yds to 60yds. And that would give you the minimum 100 in the 10" at that distance. But that's not guaranteed. You may need a 300 pattern in the 10" at 40yds to hit the 100 min at 60yds if you lose 100 shot from 40yds to 50yds and another 100 shot from 50yds to 60yds. I would at least want to shoot at 50yds to see what you had at that distance to even think I had a 60yd killer. But your terminology of what it takes to make a 60yd gun is apparently different than my standard or you would'nt have shot the bird you showed at what you say was 60yds in the first place even though you got lucky and found a lucky shot going off of your 40yds #6 patterns at 40yds.
Last edited by Brad C.; 05-26-2013 at 03:43 PM.
05-26-2013, 06:10 PM
#32
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: NewLowell ,Ontario ,Canada
Posts: 2,765
Adrian,
Those are some nice patterns for a 20GA. But I will also say none of those patterns you posted and that includes the ones you showed with the 7's are 60yd turkey killers. Granted you can get lucky and kill one with a lucky pellet. But at a bare minimum you would need at least 260 in the 10", and that's providing you only lose 80 from 40yds to 50yds and the exact same from 50yds to 60yds. And that would give you the minimum 100 in the 10" at that distance. But that's not guaranteed. You may need a 300 pattern in the 10" at 40yds to hit the 100 min at 60yds if you lose 100 shot from 40yds to 50yds and another 100 shot from 50yds to 60yds. I would at least want to shoot at 50yds to see what you had at that distance to even think I had a 60yd killer. But your terminology of what it takes to make a 60yd gun is apparently different than my standard or you would'nt have shot the bird you showed at what you say was 60yds in the first place even though you got lucky and found a lucky shot going off of your 40yds #6 patterns at 40yds.
Those are some nice patterns for a 20GA. But I will also say none of those patterns you posted and that includes the ones you showed with the 7's are 60yd turkey killers. Granted you can get lucky and kill one with a lucky pellet. But at a bare minimum you would need at least 260 in the 10", and that's providing you only lose 80 from 40yds to 50yds and the exact same from 50yds to 60yds. And that would give you the minimum 100 in the 10" at that distance. But that's not guaranteed. You may need a 300 pattern in the 10" at 40yds to hit the 100 min at 60yds if you lose 100 shot from 40yds to 50yds and another 100 shot from 50yds to 60yds. I would at least want to shoot at 50yds to see what you had at that distance to even think I had a 60yd killer. But your terminology of what it takes to make a 60yd gun is apparently different than my standard or you would'nt have shot the bird you showed at what you say was 60yds in the first place even though you got lucky and found a lucky shot going off of your 40yds #6 patterns at 40yds.
I have not shot a target other then turkeys at the 60 yards only a few times and killed them every time, never had one get away, but I would soon get them to the 30-40 yard mark, but some of the grounds that is not going to happen as pressure keeps them back.
If I can take them closer I would any day. The important part is I know my gun and have no problem taking birds with it. I will never shoot a 12 again...
05-26-2013, 07:03 PM
#33
Fork Horn
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 161
Adrian,
I'm with you on the 20GA being a great light gun to shoot with a lot more pleasant recoil vs the 3" or 3.5" 12GA loads. And again I don't mean to put you on the spot, but you never answered my question about having the pattern to lethally kill 100% of the time at 60yds with your patterns. Your patterns with the 6's would do good on a lot of them to hold up even at 50yds and 55yds would still be out of the question let alone 60yds for a guy that say he knows his gun. I beg to differ. No doubt any shot gun can kill a turkey at 60yds even using a imp cyl and a 1oz load of 6's in either 20 or 12GA. But that don't make it a 60yd gun for turkeys.
I respect your using a 20GA, and I myself plan to go to one hopefully very soon one day. But even I know I will be good to push the 50yd mark for clean consistent kills 100% of the time. Anybody that says that shooting a 20GA you don't give up yardage is probably more than likely either lying or they did'nt know much about how to make their 12GA shoot the patterns that I know that they can in fact shoot. But I am content to give up some yardage vs the Moss 835 and the bigger payloads of Hevi-13 #7's and the awesome patterns they can shoot with a Star Dot choke to have a lighter gun and less recoil. Afterall 50yds is about as far as I really care to shoot one anyways. But I know what I can expect when I make the move.
I'm with you on the 20GA being a great light gun to shoot with a lot more pleasant recoil vs the 3" or 3.5" 12GA loads. And again I don't mean to put you on the spot, but you never answered my question about having the pattern to lethally kill 100% of the time at 60yds with your patterns. Your patterns with the 6's would do good on a lot of them to hold up even at 50yds and 55yds would still be out of the question let alone 60yds for a guy that say he knows his gun. I beg to differ. No doubt any shot gun can kill a turkey at 60yds even using a imp cyl and a 1oz load of 6's in either 20 or 12GA. But that don't make it a 60yd gun for turkeys.
I respect your using a 20GA, and I myself plan to go to one hopefully very soon one day. But even I know I will be good to push the 50yd mark for clean consistent kills 100% of the time. Anybody that says that shooting a 20GA you don't give up yardage is probably more than likely either lying or they did'nt know much about how to make their 12GA shoot the patterns that I know that they can in fact shoot. But I am content to give up some yardage vs the Moss 835 and the bigger payloads of Hevi-13 #7's and the awesome patterns they can shoot with a Star Dot choke to have a lighter gun and less recoil. Afterall 50yds is about as far as I really care to shoot one anyways. But I know what I can expect when I make the move.
Last edited by Brad C.; 05-26-2013 at 08:39 PM.
05-27-2013, 05:27 AM
#34
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Allegan, MI
Posts: 8,019
"I have not shot a target other then turkeys at the 60 yards only a few times and killed them every time, never had one get away, but I would soon get them to the 30-40 yard mark, but some of the grounds that is not going to happen as pressure keeps them back."
***IMHO nobody should shoot at a turkey further than what they have properly patterned their gun with the shell they are using, including that 20 gauge that Adrian now says hasn't been shot past 40 yards at anything other than a living bird!!! Sure, the other few at 60 may have dropped right there, but the next one may just take a wounding few pellets and go off to suffer an agonizing death! Please folks; know what your gun will do at all distances up to and including the furtherest distance that it should be used for a 100% sure kill and not by guessing that the pattern is still good! If that procedure is not followed, you ARE playing a guessing game, no ifs, ands, or buts!!!
***IMHO nobody should shoot at a turkey further than what they have properly patterned their gun with the shell they are using, including that 20 gauge that Adrian now says hasn't been shot past 40 yards at anything other than a living bird!!! Sure, the other few at 60 may have dropped right there, but the next one may just take a wounding few pellets and go off to suffer an agonizing death! Please folks; know what your gun will do at all distances up to and including the furtherest distance that it should be used for a 100% sure kill and not by guessing that the pattern is still good! If that procedure is not followed, you ARE playing a guessing game, no ifs, ands, or buts!!!
Last edited by Topgun 3006; 05-27-2013 at 05:29 AM.
05-27-2013, 11:33 AM
#35
Fork Horn
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 161
"I have not shot a target other then turkeys at the 60 yards only a few times and killed them every time, never had one get away, but I would soon get them to the 30-40 yard mark, but some of the grounds that is not going to happen as pressure keeps them back."
***IMHO nobody should shoot at a turkey further than what they have properly patterned their gun with the shell they are using, including that 20 gauge that Adrian now says hasn't been shot past 40 yards at anything other than a living bird!!! Sure, the other few at 60 may have dropped right there, but the next one may just take a wounding few pellets and go off to suffer an agonizing death! Please folks; know what your gun will do at all distances up to and including the furtherest distance that it should be used for a 100% sure kill and not by guessing that the pattern is still good! If that procedure is not followed, you ARE playing a guessing game, no ifs, ands, or buts!!!
***IMHO nobody should shoot at a turkey further than what they have properly patterned their gun with the shell they are using, including that 20 gauge that Adrian now says hasn't been shot past 40 yards at anything other than a living bird!!! Sure, the other few at 60 may have dropped right there, but the next one may just take a wounding few pellets and go off to suffer an agonizing death! Please folks; know what your gun will do at all distances up to and including the furtherest distance that it should be used for a 100% sure kill and not by guessing that the pattern is still good! If that procedure is not followed, you ARE playing a guessing game, no ifs, ands, or buts!!!
Again what I stated about 80 to 100 pellets will be the avg pellet count you will lose regardless of the gun from 40yds to 50yds and the same goes from 50yds to 60yds will in fact hold very much true. But again if you even think about having a 60yd gun you better be putting 300 shot in the 40yd just to justisfy it. And that is the facts.
05-27-2013, 12:31 PM
#36
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: ohio
Posts: 637
folks this is not a debate about targets. this is a debate about shooting distance and patterns needed to ethically kill at any certain distance. Brad, Todd and myself did not just make up the 100/10 for our benefit. it has been the general accepted "rule" for a long time. because it gives you a slight buffer in range misjudgment and also ensures that there is virtually no way for no pellet strikes to the skull/spine kill zone on a turkey.
sure after you shoot your gun at a target to make sure you have an acceptable pattern and your poa/poi are in fact the same, then shoot a can if you wish and count the strikes. but do not shoot a can and hit it a few times and say ok that is good because it is not good. your pattern might be off. and if you are only putting a few pellets in a can then it is not an acceptable 100% kill anyway because the kill zone on a turkey is not as big as a can. if you want to do it that way then do it with something comparable to the kill zone. how about a golf ball (which is still a bit big) on top of a 12 inch tall 3/8 inch wooden dowel rod. now you have a turkey kill zone. now shoot that and see how many direct strikes you get. and not just grazes but actual strikes. even with our tight shooting guns we will get very few at 40 yards.
05-27-2013, 12:58 PM
#37
Super Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 7,437
Do I have a 60 yard gun? Yep, 2 of them and passed on several birds this yr as I am trying to keep my 21 yard average. That is just me.......videod a bunch of others as I like them up close. If I use decoys they are placed no more than 10 yards.....My choice....
JW
JW
05-27-2013, 03:31 PM
#38
Super Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 7,437
I know one thing I am 100% sure this thread has run its course. The 100/10 pellet hit is a rule that some of you live by - hey great - if that is how you pattern your gun - okay move on. Why is now I read about this rule? Carry over from other boards? If I find it is some of you will be gone.
Do not belittle others who have been in the turkey woods far longer than you have and know their equipment.
Each of us has their own method to hunt.
And those who like to pick an argument time and time again you be well advised to be careful. You are killing a good forum and I won't let it happen.
JW
Do not belittle others who have been in the turkey woods far longer than you have and know their equipment.
Each of us has their own method to hunt.
And those who like to pick an argument time and time again you be well advised to be careful. You are killing a good forum and I won't let it happen.
JW
Last edited by JW; 05-27-2013 at 03:33 PM.
05-27-2013, 04:40 PM
#39
Fork Horn
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 161
JW,
The 100 in the 10" has been around along time now and it's the standard rule that the NWTF goes by to know exactly what your lethal range is from any gun, choke and load. Go look it up. This is't something that I or anyone else made up. And not trying to argue with you for I know you are one of the bosses here, but thinking you know your gun and knowing you truly know your gun are 2 different persectives altogether. One is subjective the other is objective. You can either choose to live by it or not when patterning your gun, but it is what it is. I go by it for I know it's very accurate and true.
The 100 in the 10" has been around along time now and it's the standard rule that the NWTF goes by to know exactly what your lethal range is from any gun, choke and load. Go look it up. This is't something that I or anyone else made up. And not trying to argue with you for I know you are one of the bosses here, but thinking you know your gun and knowing you truly know your gun are 2 different persectives altogether. One is subjective the other is objective. You can either choose to live by it or not when patterning your gun, but it is what it is. I go by it for I know it's very accurate and true.
Last edited by Brad C.; 05-27-2013 at 04:42 PM.