Hunt the Roost
02-18-2010, 12:59 PM
#32
Super Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 7,437
Well to go back a bit to my first post - that is only one phase of us as being a hunter.........and some never progress onto the next phase.....
What ever enjoyment you get out of it - Good for you......but to me it is one thing I in my ethics is beyond fair chase -
JW
What ever enjoyment you get out of it - Good for you......but to me it is one thing I in my ethics is beyond fair chase -
JW
02-18-2010, 11:55 PM
#33
Fork Horn
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Eagleville Missouri
Posts: 338
Just read back through all the posts, and agree with most. However you feel about it, that is the right thing for you. I do disagree with whoever said shooting turkeys from trees is not turkey hunting period. It obviously is not your idea of turkey hunting, but if it's legal, it is in fact turkey hunting. Very basic, possibly very easy, certainly very efficient and not everyones idea of an exciting hunt maybe, but still hunting. Unsportsmanlike sure, but still hunting.
We can all agree probably that our ancesters used every method and technological advancement possible to efficiently kill everything edible for survival. We can also agree I think, that most of the methods they used would be illegal and considered unethical today, but only unethical because it's now illegal and no longer practiced or accepted where you live. But in places where hunting traditions and practices continue and have not been made illegal, they are considered completely ethical and normal and you'd be the outcast wannabe who didn't understand the proper way to do things, who wasn't a real hunter. What our forefathers did was hunting. Simply and efficiently killing game for food is hunting, however they did it. Driving animals over cliffs was hunting, even if it is no longer legal or practiced except by poachers. Poachers are hunters too though. They probably hunt closer to the old traditions than we do, the laws be damned. But their methods are no longer acceptable for conservation purposes. They are sort of disinfranchised hunters, but still hunters.
Now we live in a world where game laws are in place, and are needed to protect game animals from extinction, and on the other end of the scale, overpopulation. The scale must be kept in balance, as we don't want either of those to occur.
The traditional hunt which meant killing everything in sight to eat and store for the winter has been largely replaced by farming animals for slaughter, so there's always a ready supply at the store. And farming animals for high fence hunting is acceptable to many. Why do we cling to hunting at all? For most it's because they love the outdoors, the sights, the sounds, the chase, the chance to spend time alone or the chance to hunt with friends. The connection to the natural worls is strong. Who cares if we kill anything, if we have a great day? For most it's the sport, and the overall experience and I agree it's great, and it's the best part of hunting! But true hunting has nothing to do with sport. Whether you spend ten minutes sneaking under a tree, or all day having fun watching, calling and choosing a bird with your best buddy, when you pull the trigger and the bird dies you have hunted either way. Hunting hasn't changed as much as the people doing it, and everyone has their own idea of how to do it right. But hunting is still, basically, seeing something edible and figuring out a way to efficiently kill it, before we starve. Modern hunting is seeing something edible, checking the game laws, buying proper tags and following prescribed methods to suit a consevation plan, then killing the animal for food that you may not even need to survive. This is something a real hunter, a traditional hunter, did not have to do. But I agree that it's necessary today, if totally artificial. The most efficient ways to hunt have been largely deemed illegal for safety reasons or to keep GAME animals from being totally slaughtered, to keep the scale balanced, and so hunting the way great grandpa did it is no longer acceptable, even though great grandpa wasn't playing a GAME. Great grandpa, by todays standards would be an unethical poacher, but he was still a great hunter in his day.
I agree that there are different phases people go through, but believe that moving away from simply killing for food and doing it for any other reason is more for the sport and moving in a direction away from true hunting. I love the sport, but am willing to try the less sportsmanlike method because I'm a true hunter. I'll probably find that it has some built in challenges and fun too. I want to, as much as possible, and within the law, try true survival style hunting, the true tradition, the way it was done in the past. Just kill it and grill it because I am free to do so, within the law. How could that be wrong?
We can all agree probably that our ancesters used every method and technological advancement possible to efficiently kill everything edible for survival. We can also agree I think, that most of the methods they used would be illegal and considered unethical today, but only unethical because it's now illegal and no longer practiced or accepted where you live. But in places where hunting traditions and practices continue and have not been made illegal, they are considered completely ethical and normal and you'd be the outcast wannabe who didn't understand the proper way to do things, who wasn't a real hunter. What our forefathers did was hunting. Simply and efficiently killing game for food is hunting, however they did it. Driving animals over cliffs was hunting, even if it is no longer legal or practiced except by poachers. Poachers are hunters too though. They probably hunt closer to the old traditions than we do, the laws be damned. But their methods are no longer acceptable for conservation purposes. They are sort of disinfranchised hunters, but still hunters.
Now we live in a world where game laws are in place, and are needed to protect game animals from extinction, and on the other end of the scale, overpopulation. The scale must be kept in balance, as we don't want either of those to occur.
The traditional hunt which meant killing everything in sight to eat and store for the winter has been largely replaced by farming animals for slaughter, so there's always a ready supply at the store. And farming animals for high fence hunting is acceptable to many. Why do we cling to hunting at all? For most it's because they love the outdoors, the sights, the sounds, the chase, the chance to spend time alone or the chance to hunt with friends. The connection to the natural worls is strong. Who cares if we kill anything, if we have a great day? For most it's the sport, and the overall experience and I agree it's great, and it's the best part of hunting! But true hunting has nothing to do with sport. Whether you spend ten minutes sneaking under a tree, or all day having fun watching, calling and choosing a bird with your best buddy, when you pull the trigger and the bird dies you have hunted either way. Hunting hasn't changed as much as the people doing it, and everyone has their own idea of how to do it right. But hunting is still, basically, seeing something edible and figuring out a way to efficiently kill it, before we starve. Modern hunting is seeing something edible, checking the game laws, buying proper tags and following prescribed methods to suit a consevation plan, then killing the animal for food that you may not even need to survive. This is something a real hunter, a traditional hunter, did not have to do. But I agree that it's necessary today, if totally artificial. The most efficient ways to hunt have been largely deemed illegal for safety reasons or to keep GAME animals from being totally slaughtered, to keep the scale balanced, and so hunting the way great grandpa did it is no longer acceptable, even though great grandpa wasn't playing a GAME. Great grandpa, by todays standards would be an unethical poacher, but he was still a great hunter in his day.
I agree that there are different phases people go through, but believe that moving away from simply killing for food and doing it for any other reason is more for the sport and moving in a direction away from true hunting. I love the sport, but am willing to try the less sportsmanlike method because I'm a true hunter. I'll probably find that it has some built in challenges and fun too. I want to, as much as possible, and within the law, try true survival style hunting, the true tradition, the way it was done in the past. Just kill it and grill it because I am free to do so, within the law. How could that be wrong?
02-25-2010, 08:46 PM
#34
Spike
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 67
1.Shoot turkey
2. Eat turkey
Also, here is a free ethics lesson
You should always be willing to share the experience and it is never about the most or biggest.
If you kill for just the "sport" or "thrill" that is a waste of life and you have strayed far from the beaten path.
Your welcome.
Last edited by gyro288; 02-25-2010 at 08:59 PM.
02-26-2010, 05:49 AM
#35
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: NewLowell ,Ontario ,Canada
Posts: 2,765
I love the sport, but am willing to try the less sportsmanlike method because I'm a true hunter. I'll probably find that it has some built in challenges and fun too. I want to, as much as possible, and within the law, try true survival style hunting, the true tradition, the way it was done in the past. Just kill it and grill it because I am free to do so, within the law. How could that be wrong?
Hate to say it but I have guided 100's of turkey hunters to success and not once ever allowed a client to shoot from the tree legal or not and it is legal where I live. That just don't make me feel like I'm teaching anyone proper hunting. Most of these laws were set not by hunters but Bioligist that never looked at the whole ball game.
If you shoot birds from the roost then feel proud, just don't call yourself a hunter sorry....
02-26-2010, 05:19 PM
#36
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Eldred, PA
Posts: 1,667
Let me start off by telling a story leading up to the success of my 2nd bird last year.
I'd been on this bird for a few days and I had been so close that I wanted to put this bird down no matter the circumstance. I got out early Saturday morning, put out my decoys and setup close to the tree he had roosted in the past few days and waited for daylight. Upon the sun breaking over the hills, and the darkness fading, I noticed the tom up in the same tree as the previous days. I watched him waiting for him to sound off so I could play the "game." As seconds turned to minutes I watched him walk to one side of the limb, turn around and walk back to the other side, all the while not making a peep.
As time went on and flydown approached, I realized he wasnt going to gobble at all. I made a few tree yelps and did a flydown cackle soon after. I was still determined to get this bird no matter what. Soon after my flydown, he flew out of the tree and walked directly to my decoys. At thirty yards he gave me the opportunity, and I unloaded a 3 inch #6 load in his direction. He fell and I went over to claim my reward expecting to be overjoyed.
From flydown to shot was no more than 20 seconds.
As I walked up I realized I wasn't happy, I wasn't ecstatic. Infact, I felt disguisted with myself that I had been so determined to KILL this animal that I had gone to any length to do so. This, to me, wasn't hunting -- it was murder. Sure it's how some people do it, but I know I will never do it like that again. If he isn't going to gobble and play the game, I won't either. For him to flydown right into my decoy and me to shoot him within seconds of landing, just isn't my idea of turkey hunting. Turkey killing, maybe. Obviously, we all have different ethics, and I suppose I needed that experience to further understand what kind of hunter I want to be, but, never again.
I'd much rather run and gun, get em all riled up and have them come in gobbling and excited - not bonzai them as soon as they hit the ground.
But, if that's the kind of hunter someone else wants to be, then to each their own, but I wouldn't spend a day hunting with them. JMO
I'd been on this bird for a few days and I had been so close that I wanted to put this bird down no matter the circumstance. I got out early Saturday morning, put out my decoys and setup close to the tree he had roosted in the past few days and waited for daylight. Upon the sun breaking over the hills, and the darkness fading, I noticed the tom up in the same tree as the previous days. I watched him waiting for him to sound off so I could play the "game." As seconds turned to minutes I watched him walk to one side of the limb, turn around and walk back to the other side, all the while not making a peep.
As time went on and flydown approached, I realized he wasnt going to gobble at all. I made a few tree yelps and did a flydown cackle soon after. I was still determined to get this bird no matter what. Soon after my flydown, he flew out of the tree and walked directly to my decoys. At thirty yards he gave me the opportunity, and I unloaded a 3 inch #6 load in his direction. He fell and I went over to claim my reward expecting to be overjoyed.
From flydown to shot was no more than 20 seconds.
As I walked up I realized I wasn't happy, I wasn't ecstatic. Infact, I felt disguisted with myself that I had been so determined to KILL this animal that I had gone to any length to do so. This, to me, wasn't hunting -- it was murder. Sure it's how some people do it, but I know I will never do it like that again. If he isn't going to gobble and play the game, I won't either. For him to flydown right into my decoy and me to shoot him within seconds of landing, just isn't my idea of turkey hunting. Turkey killing, maybe. Obviously, we all have different ethics, and I suppose I needed that experience to further understand what kind of hunter I want to be, but, never again.
I'd much rather run and gun, get em all riled up and have them come in gobbling and excited - not bonzai them as soon as they hit the ground.
But, if that's the kind of hunter someone else wants to be, then to each their own, but I wouldn't spend a day hunting with them. JMO
02-28-2010, 07:08 AM
#37
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Southampton Pa BUCKS CO
Posts: 2,492
No, the purpose of hunting turkeys is not to kill a turkey. It may be the ultimate goal but not the purpose. If your whole purpose is to kill, then you have missed the mark badly. I have had some incredible hunts without ever pulling the trigger. Turkey hunting is the ultimate, the ultimate, and sneaking up on a bird on the roost steals all that the sport is about.
Hatchet Jack
03-02-2010, 04:08 AM
#39
Typical Buck
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location:
Posts: 659
This discussion has raised a good question...and NOt the ethcis question that in the obvious one. It's the question of what makes birds stay on the roost in the moring for long periods. I once flushed one from the roost at 10 am.....It was a cold and dreary day, spitting rain, I guess he just didn't want to get out of bed without a good reason. Third week of our season so I always wondered how much the pressure influenced that phenomenon as well. Frustrating to say the least. Of course it became apparent that I was meant to go home and grab the fishing rod, and went out and absolutely hammered the trout in the dreary conditions. Sometimes you just have to say that today is not the day and find something else to do, imo. I personally don't agree with roost shoting and its illegal in my state, but interestingly I've been called unsportsmanlike by other turkey hunters (old school)for such common and accepted prcatices as using decoys and hunting field edge strut zones. Just some food for thought.
Last edited by Screamin Steel; 03-02-2010 at 04:12 AM.
03-05-2010, 03:36 PM
#40
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Southern Illinois
Posts: 650
Ok, my turn. To start off with, I would never shoot a roosted turkey. That's not what I'm out there for. I want the challenge and the show. I love the meat too, but I won't say that a turkey dinner is the only thing I go to the woods for.
That being said, if shooting a roosting turkey is legal and that is how you want to take your bird, go for it. While I don't agree with some of the things that you do, I'm sure I do things that others don't agree with also. Surely there are those out there who don't believe a repeating firearm is sporting. I wouldn't dream of running deer with dogs, but in some parts of the country it's just part of the hunt. In some states it's legal to hunt turkeys with rifles. That's not anything like the turkey hunting I know, but it's legal and that's how many people do it.
We as hunters (whatever the definition of that may be) need to stick together. Face it. We are much more like the guy who shoots the gobbler off a branch than the anti-hunter PETA nut that's trying to take away our tradition, sport, lifestyle, whatever you want to call it. We just need to realize that we won't ever all agree on what's right, and try not to bash those who have different views of what's right.
Make your own judgments within the confines of your state law. If you're out for meat, I wish you luck putting a tom on your table. If you're out there for the show, I hope he struts and spits n drums for you like a champ. As for me, I want both!
Let's all just pray that we can enjoy turkey hunting, for whatever our intentions are, for many years to come.
rw
That being said, if shooting a roosting turkey is legal and that is how you want to take your bird, go for it. While I don't agree with some of the things that you do, I'm sure I do things that others don't agree with also. Surely there are those out there who don't believe a repeating firearm is sporting. I wouldn't dream of running deer with dogs, but in some parts of the country it's just part of the hunt. In some states it's legal to hunt turkeys with rifles. That's not anything like the turkey hunting I know, but it's legal and that's how many people do it.
We as hunters (whatever the definition of that may be) need to stick together. Face it. We are much more like the guy who shoots the gobbler off a branch than the anti-hunter PETA nut that's trying to take away our tradition, sport, lifestyle, whatever you want to call it. We just need to realize that we won't ever all agree on what's right, and try not to bash those who have different views of what's right.
Make your own judgments within the confines of your state law. If you're out for meat, I wish you luck putting a tom on your table. If you're out there for the show, I hope he struts and spits n drums for you like a champ. As for me, I want both!
Let's all just pray that we can enjoy turkey hunting, for whatever our intentions are, for many years to come.
rw