BHB I am shooting a 3" gun and the choke is one of the First run of the Mad MAX ( .655)chokes by the Durry Boys. I am also doing 190 + hits with my Winchester Super X-2 and the Rhino .670 shooting both the 2 1/4 oz new Hevi and Winchester Ex-Range shells.
Here is what my X-2 is doing at 43 yds. No need to buy the NITRO's even though I have a box of 20...

Thats awesome!

so would it be better for me to buy a factory choke thats an extended .665 that excepts all types of shot or a tight wad or tru glo strut stopper or something?

Which Indian Creek fits the Encore?

BHB; I guess it all depends on what you want to do with your gun. I only shoot mine several times each spring. I do not use my turkey guns for any other hunting.
It looks like the new Indian Creek chokes are tearing the still target shoots up, and there are a bunch of guys on the NWTF siteand oldgobbler.com giving them some great reviews. Let us knw what you end up doing and how it shoots for you.

The correct choke for the 12 gauge Encore barrel will be listed as follows...

Winchoke, Moss 500 & 9200, Browning Invector (not Invector Plus)

There is some good combos here, but I would like to start people off right if possable,

To startif you post your combo you should make sure you post what gauge you are shooting. I see most of these are 12 gauge diam's.In constriction so I will carry on with my thoughts here.

In the past couple years the 20 gauge is coming on strong as well for a turkey gun. What I see that confuses everyone is that combo's that are posted on public forums are always posted with no a lot of detail as with the shell used.

Testing range
All your testing should be done out at your max shooting distance. This distance should be at the 40 yard mark. The reason behind this is that you want to see what your combo is going to do at the max ethical range of a killing shot.This is going to tell you a couple or few things.

1. How dense is your combo at this range.
2. Is your combo holding an even pattern at this range on most shots?
3.Is your pattern dense enough to get a few more yards out of it and make it a 45 yard turkey gun?

What this testing tells you is that if the pattern is holding a dense pattern then you know you have a true turkey thumper out to the max range and you do not have to question yourself if you want to take a shot in that range that is not going happen closer.

Any shell/choke combo will shoot good patterns at closer ranges. To test a lot of shells at 20 or 30 yards is more of how the pattern hits that target other then how many shot you can place at that range. All turkey guns will only get better patterns the closer you shoot, so spend your test money at the 40 yard range.

The more shot you can place in that 10 in circle in an even pattern the better your success will be to cleanly take a bird at your farthest ethical range.

Remember shooting at birds out past your shooting range because you think maybe I can kill it, only make your gobblers more pressured in your hunting area. Next time he may never come close for a shot and you have one less bird to become successful.


Nitro'sare not the typical turkey loads. They are made up of 60 - 70% of #7 shot in a load that will fill a target and fool the customer into thinking he has a super pattern and then up against a normal straight turkey load from another company, it Can Not be beat. This sells the shell easily. Not that these loads do not kill, because they do and #7 has the energy that is needed to take the game at an ethical shot. The problem is in the regulations forwarded from the games department in some states that regulate the shot size used to hunt turkeys. In Ontario it is Illegal to use these type loads as the regulations state #4-#5- or #6 shot size only.
I kid to most about shooting sugar at them when they do use these shells

After testing most shell types on the market today Hevi shot is one of the leaders in hevi shot loads. With the energy that hevi shot delivers you have no problem taking birds at 45-50 yards and with #6 loads. Remember Hevi shot sizes are one size smaller then copper/lead so #6 in Hevi shot is really #5 in lead. Some other information you should keep a close eye on with shells is the content weight of the load. 1 1/2 oz load will have a hard time to stand up with a 2 oz load in any shell. This will also add to the density of a pattern. #4 shot has not got the same amount of shot in a load as #6 has. The #6 is going to have more holes in the target because of the amount of shot in the hull.

3 in vs. 3 1/2 inch shells.

Are they any better? Will you get a better density in a pattern?
Not always. After testing two different loads in Hevi shot last week a 3 in. Hevi 13 in white 12 gauge out patterned a Remington 3 1/2 at 40 yards. Believe me the shooter changed his mind after the shoulder shock and seeing the pattern of them both in the end. I learned this back when I shot a 10 gauge back some 15 years ago.

Copper loads have changed over the years but the Winchester HV loadsare very hard to beat. After testing and owning near ever company type turkey load, I have ran a number of them through different chokes and sizing.

An important question that was asked was “Can any choke produce this type of pattern" the answer is NO plain out.

Aftermarket turkey chokes are priced as they are for a reason and that is the work involved in them. Most have long tapers in them and the sizing is important when it comes to patterning.

Forcing cone work could also help or could help form the pattern to an even pattern if you have holes in it before hand. I have had a 10% increase in the density of patterns in my turkey gun since I had it done, but I have heard but not scene that it has caused a decrease in them too.

Clean Barrels are very important, and cleaning them with a bore snake is NOT going to cut it. A barrel of a gun should be worked on for some time. When starting out always use oil or cleaner of some sort and I use 000 steal wool and a drill. I then change to scotebrite and run thought different colours until I end with the white. White is the finest and will polish the barrel to a Glass shine from one end to the other. The forcing cone area will be the hardest to clean down to a shine, but it can be done and not in 10 minutes either.

In my ending here will say I have tested turkey guns to know end 12 and 20 and have seen what is working and what does not do so well. Sizing is the most important part of the choke for what you intend to use for shells. If you are using the 12 gauge and want to start out in the right step, start with spending a little bit more money in a choke and get something that is going to produce what you’re after in the first place. Next make sure you read the information on the choke and get what you plan on shooting as in hevi shot loads or copper/lead. A little tip is that you can shoot copper with a hevi shot choke, but you are not to shoot hevi shot with a lead only choke the difference is in the metal used in the choke.

Sizing that I have found the best in both 12 and 20 gauge are

12 gauge - .660 - .665 and this works for both hevi and lead.
20 gauge - .550 -.555 and this works for both shell types.

Choke Companies that tend to shoot the best patterns are

Indian Creek
Swarm
Pure Gold
Precision Arms
Rhino

I am impressed with the pattern the Mad Max has shot here on these replies as well. This is a choke I have not had a chance to test as of yet.

What this all is saying is that if you use only a normal Turkey load of all the same size load like all #4 -all#5- or all#6 you are Not going to get patterns that you see from these 4-5-7 Nitro loads. Copper/lead users will not get these same patterns either. With a little testing and getting the right sizing in chokes and shells you will get real close to what patterns are being boosted about...

Adrian,
Great post.........in your experience how much center density do you figure you lose on average patterning from a dirty barrel?

When I first started patterning my new Remington Supermag / ICSS Black Diamond Strike with the Hevi13 #6's I honestly didn't know the correlation between a clean barrel and tighter patterns. I assumed it was just luck of the draw shot to shot and that the choke/load was everything.

I was getting 180+ pellets in 10" at 40 yards (one was over 200 if I could redraw on a shot I pulled a bit high offhand) but these were after a dozen initial closer range shots to sight in the new scope.

Even a 10% jump in center density on a clean polished barrel will get me consistently and easily over 200 pellets in 10".

Is it safe to say that I can leave the sights alone, clean the barrel and simply expect more hits in 10" at 40 yards on the same POA?
Its a thumper now with a nice even distribution but if I can up it 10-15 or more % on center density it will be a no brainer 45-50yard max gun.

Matt, fantastic questions and I hope I can answer this in everyones opinion but I'm sure I will not be able. I can only answer to my findings with my 20 gauge that I shoot now. As I test shells I notice a drop in every shot for about 6 shells ran through the gun. As most very I would be safe to say that I lose about 2- 3 % a shot for 4 - 5 shot after losing up to 10% in about 6 shots.

I do give my gun a real good cleaning after 6-8 shells shots.

When I take the gun back to the cleaning room I will spend a good 1/2 - 3/4 of anhour starting with a wrap of 00# steal wool on a cleaning brush,in the drill andrun it up and down the barrel a few times. I will change and run a white cleaning patch to collect the crud and then drop down to 000# steal wool do the same. I use WD-40 everytime I changethe cleaning rodand then after I finish with the steal wool I go to Red scotchbrite, blue, green and end up using white for the last of the cleaning until I can run it up and down the barrel and it comes out White with no dark or black fowl at all on it.

When you look at the inside of the barrel at a light it should reflect light all the way down with a glass finish. It is easy to keep this up and just as easy if it don't work for your setup to get it dirty once again.

Every gun I have cleaned for friends this way has shot much better then it did when it was dirty, the only difference is spending the time working on your barrel...

I'd also like to add my 2 cents....I've been hunting longbeards since 1968, I've seen alot of shells come and go..I've tested most of them and would conclude that we've come a long long way since the 1960's.... the stuff we shot back then wouldn't hold a candle to the stuff used today...these are the best of times in the turkey shooting world for sure.. I'm just wondering if haven't reached about the end of what can be accomplishedwith ashotgun ..it seems like it's all about what's flying through the air..hevi-shot vs copper vs lead etc... it's like the 320 feet per second barrier in the bow world, with bows in hunting form, not bare... I also agree that not every 3 1/2 will out shoot every 3 inch.. I've seen on paper the facts.. YOUMUST TEST whatever you choose on paper...lots of gobbler lives have been spared over the years by hunters who refuse to test, you'd be surprised how many never fire any shell at paper.. I don't know how they can live with themselves, YOU MUST know where they hit.. saves alot of suffering or wounding and crippling.. whatever shell you choose and what ever choke.. TEST...give them a fair shake also, clean that barrel between shots and let em' cool off and I've also found out that shooting off your knee against a backrest will make things real... myself.. good ole' Federal Heavyweights, 2 oz. #5's, the blue and gold box... from my Hastings .655 choke in my ole WW 1300 NWTF...every gobbler I've ever shot at was dead on arrival..they shoot straight as an arrow from my shotgun and I've tested them to 50 yards and feel confident of the hit.. so no matter what you shoot, TESTTEST AND TEST..shoot it on paper, we owe that to them !!

Wow...thats ALOT of good info.....well i am official now and when i get the money im gonna go with a ICSS, hevishot, and a good cleaning kit!