Aiming at long distances
01-21-2005, 06:48 PM
#12
Spike
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 85
RE: Aiming at long distances
ORIGINAL: LBR
Same thing Pete--comes with practice. I won't be taking a 40 yd shot from a treestand at an animal, and don't recally ever having a 40 yd treestand shot at a tournament (yes, we have them--usually from a platform instead of an actual treestand though). When shooting from a stand (or downhill) remember to bend at the waist--don't try to adjust with your shoulder. The distance to the target is the same, regardless if you are level with it, above it, or below it. That can get tricky, as being up high or down low will give the illusion that the shot is farther than it actually is. For instance, if you are up a tree 30 feet and the target is 30 feet from the base of your tree, you are taking a 10 yd shot, not a 20 yd shot.
Practice from every situation you will be hunting from. If you hunt from a stand, set it up and practice from it. The same goes for a blind. Practice shooting while seated, kneeling, etc.
Chad
Same thing Pete--comes with practice. I won't be taking a 40 yd shot from a treestand at an animal, and don't recally ever having a 40 yd treestand shot at a tournament (yes, we have them--usually from a platform instead of an actual treestand though). When shooting from a stand (or downhill) remember to bend at the waist--don't try to adjust with your shoulder. The distance to the target is the same, regardless if you are level with it, above it, or below it. That can get tricky, as being up high or down low will give the illusion that the shot is farther than it actually is. For instance, if you are up a tree 30 feet and the target is 30 feet from the base of your tree, you are taking a 10 yd shot, not a 20 yd shot.
Practice from every situation you will be hunting from. If you hunt from a stand, set it up and practice from it. The same goes for a blind. Practice shooting while seated, kneeling, etc.
Chad
01-21-2005, 11:22 PM
#13
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Mississippi USA
Posts: 15,296
RE: Aiming at long distances
The distance the arrow travels is further than a straight-on shot, but the distance from point A to point B (base of tree to target) remains the same.
A exaggerated example is this--say you are 90 feet up at the target it one yd. from the tree. You won't shoot it like it's a 30 yd shot, although the arrow is traveling that far.
On a very long shot from a treestand, the angle and actual distance traveled might make more of a difference, but on your typical hunting shot just go with the distance from the base of the tree to the target.
Chad
A exaggerated example is this--say you are 90 feet up at the target it one yd. from the tree. You won't shoot it like it's a 30 yd shot, although the arrow is traveling that far.
On a very long shot from a treestand, the angle and actual distance traveled might make more of a difference, but on your typical hunting shot just go with the distance from the base of the tree to the target.
Chad
01-22-2005, 07:37 AM
#14
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Miami FL USA
Posts: 208
RE: Aiming at long distances
Chad,
I agree with you that the distance from the tree to the target remains the same. The problem is that with longer shots the actual distance can be important especially with slower speed arrows. Beyond 30yds arrow efficency really degenerates making the impact position different. Adding a yard or two on a 40yd shot does matter.
Just for fun go on Steve Jackson's site and go into the ballistics section. Its interesting to see what just a couple yards or feet per second difference does at longer distances. A poor release or a short draw will give you a few feet per second difference putting you off target. You can also compare how much an arrow drops at different ranges. You do need to know what your speed your arrow is leaving the bow. You can makeup models to compare the difference between shooting at 175fps or 178fps; or perhaps 190fps at different ranges. Bowjackson
I agree with you that the distance from the tree to the target remains the same. The problem is that with longer shots the actual distance can be important especially with slower speed arrows. Beyond 30yds arrow efficency really degenerates making the impact position different. Adding a yard or two on a 40yd shot does matter.
Just for fun go on Steve Jackson's site and go into the ballistics section. Its interesting to see what just a couple yards or feet per second difference does at longer distances. A poor release or a short draw will give you a few feet per second difference putting you off target. You can also compare how much an arrow drops at different ranges. You do need to know what your speed your arrow is leaving the bow. You can makeup models to compare the difference between shooting at 175fps or 178fps; or perhaps 190fps at different ranges. Bowjackson
01-22-2005, 09:25 AM
#15
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Mississippi USA
Posts: 15,296
RE: Aiming at long distances
No doubt the farther the shot the more the drop. I should have been more specific when I said "typical hunting shot"--to me, that's 25 yds or less, and from what I can gather that is the the max range for most trad archers in a hunting situation
Ballistics and drop are measured in a straight line, and will change from an elevated shot, depending on the angle--the steeper the angle, the less drop over the distance covered by the arrow. Again, with the exaggerated example, if you are 90' up and the target it 10 yds from the base of the tree, you aren't going to get nearly as much arrow drop as you would if you were 30' up and the target was 30 yds from the base. It's interesting stuff, and would be a bugger to figure out and keep in your mind for every elevation you hunt from. For me, the best solution is just practice from the heights you hunt from. I'm usually 15-25 feet high, and the targets 20 yds or less. At that height/range, I don't make any concious adjustments. I won't shoot at an animal much further than that (and only if everything feels right), and I have only had one or two shots at a tournament that were elevated and at a longer distance.
Chad
Ballistics and drop are measured in a straight line, and will change from an elevated shot, depending on the angle--the steeper the angle, the less drop over the distance covered by the arrow. Again, with the exaggerated example, if you are 90' up and the target it 10 yds from the base of the tree, you aren't going to get nearly as much arrow drop as you would if you were 30' up and the target was 30 yds from the base. It's interesting stuff, and would be a bugger to figure out and keep in your mind for every elevation you hunt from. For me, the best solution is just practice from the heights you hunt from. I'm usually 15-25 feet high, and the targets 20 yds or less. At that height/range, I don't make any concious adjustments. I won't shoot at an animal much further than that (and only if everything feels right), and I have only had one or two shots at a tournament that were elevated and at a longer distance.
Chad
01-22-2005, 10:13 AM
#16
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Miami FL USA
Posts: 208
RE: Aiming at long distances
Chad,
I should have mentioned the ballistics chart values are from a straight 90 degree angle to the earth and should be divided in half because we shoot in an arch.
At our range where I shoot alot of field archery we have about a dozen or so 3-D animals set out along the range to shoot. So I get quite a bit of 3-D shooting as well. Its kind of fun to shoot at them at odd distances of 40 to 60yds and see how you do. I can tell you that there is a big difference in shooting a 35yd shot vs a 40yd shot in arrow performance. I am with you, I'm a 20yd trad bowhunter for the most part. Why???? Mostly because I don't feel comfortable beyond that range unless everything is perfect. Then too much can happen between the time of the release and arrow impact. I don't make any conscious adjustments either between the time of draw and release.
Alot of shooting at longer distances has to do with the performance of your bow. Meaning at 40yds I am not gap shooting, that generally comes into play at 50yds because my bow setup is point on at 55yds on my target bow, and 60yds with my hunting setup. So if I tried to gap at 40yds my arrow tip would be in the dirt somewhere well below the target. Since my bows are fairly good performers, I use a system called drawing the line where I put the arrow tip on or near the target draw the bow and release. You have to learn to trust the bow and there is some learning as to where you start to draw the line. But it works well out to where I pickup the gap at 50yds. The only time I shoot instinctive for the most part is hunting and even then I draw the line, its a learned skill. For the most part only the first shot is ever instinctive, after that your mind has learned how to adjust.
I should have mentioned the ballistics chart values are from a straight 90 degree angle to the earth and should be divided in half because we shoot in an arch.
At our range where I shoot alot of field archery we have about a dozen or so 3-D animals set out along the range to shoot. So I get quite a bit of 3-D shooting as well. Its kind of fun to shoot at them at odd distances of 40 to 60yds and see how you do. I can tell you that there is a big difference in shooting a 35yd shot vs a 40yd shot in arrow performance. I am with you, I'm a 20yd trad bowhunter for the most part. Why???? Mostly because I don't feel comfortable beyond that range unless everything is perfect. Then too much can happen between the time of the release and arrow impact. I don't make any conscious adjustments either between the time of draw and release.
Alot of shooting at longer distances has to do with the performance of your bow. Meaning at 40yds I am not gap shooting, that generally comes into play at 50yds because my bow setup is point on at 55yds on my target bow, and 60yds with my hunting setup. So if I tried to gap at 40yds my arrow tip would be in the dirt somewhere well below the target. Since my bows are fairly good performers, I use a system called drawing the line where I put the arrow tip on or near the target draw the bow and release. You have to learn to trust the bow and there is some learning as to where you start to draw the line. But it works well out to where I pickup the gap at 50yds. The only time I shoot instinctive for the most part is hunting and even then I draw the line, its a learned skill. For the most part only the first shot is ever instinctive, after that your mind has learned how to adjust.
01-23-2005, 07:27 AM
#18
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Miami FL USA
Posts: 208
RE: Aiming at long distances
Vic,
On the first shot the mind essentially has no information to confirm the judgements made on the proper range of the shot. After the first shot it sees what adjustments or compensating must be done. How our onboard computer exactly does that I don't know. It just that the mind has more information to gauge by than before.
On the first shot the mind essentially has no information to confirm the judgements made on the proper range of the shot. After the first shot it sees what adjustments or compensating must be done. How our onboard computer exactly does that I don't know. It just that the mind has more information to gauge by than before.
