RE: Aiming vs Instinctive
 

Mez, that's what burns me about Asbell, or any other "expert" that proclaims you have to do things exactly like they do or you are wrong--it can cause a lot of problems for someone that doesn't know any better. He may be a great teacher in person, but the books and video don't impress me at all. He should know as well as anyone there is no one method that works best for everybody. He may not mean it that way, because in the video the "students" are obviously not shooting exactly like he does and he is telling them what a great job they are doing, but he sure comes across that way.

STA, I saw that show--one of the rare occasions I get to watch TV--and I think that the judge was shooting "instinctive", but I disagree that is the only way anyone could make that shot. I used to gap shoot (still do on long shots), and shot at the Howard Hill World Longbow and Recurve Championship when I was gap shooting. Over half the targets were moving targets--some swayed back and forth, some charged at you, some shot across in front of you, etc. I was able to shoot those targets using the gap method. Instictive may be easier with moving targets, and may be the only option for a split-second shot, but when you see the target coming and have time to set up, gap shooting works also.

Chad

RE: Aiming vs Instinctive
 

Read "Hunting the Hard Way." Howard Hill wrote a good bit about shooting moving game animals, including one hog that was charging him and a buffalo he shot Indian style, from atop a running horse. Byron Ferguson shoots aspirins out of the air... Neither of them ever claimed to be instinctive shooters but have no trouble with moving targets.

RE: Aiming vs Instinctive
 

I think this subject has been discussed and debated for as long as I can remember.....it was debated back in the early 60's when traditional archery was just plain archery.

I will flat out state that I am unable to shoot instinctively...period! It blows my mind to hear an instinctive shooter state he doesn't know the distance, doesn't see his arrow, and just burns a hole and the arrow goes there. My archery, and in fact all my shooting sport, training just will not accept or allow myself to shoot that way. All other shooting sports reference to the equipment in some manner inorder to hit their mark.... my mind just will not let me do it any other way (unless I am inside of 15 yards. )

Arthur's method closely resembles the way I shoot........split finger with longbows due to class requirements only and 3 under with recurves. My longbow shooting is ok but still needs a ways to go. Recurve with 3 under using the point of the arrow as a point of aim is like shooting sights for me and has a much higher degree of accuracy. But, I luv shooting my longbows far better.......doesn't figure huh?

Chad and the others are right......shoot how ever it feels the most natural because that will be the most consistantly repeatable form for you to use. I have seen target archers, especially compound archers, with horrible form shoot extremely well because they consistantly repeated their horrible form on every shot.

RE: Aiming vs Instinctive
 

AP your method of shooting is very similar to mine,except I shoot 3 under.I think it is much easier to learn this way.The gaps do become instinctive or muscle memory over time if you shoot the same bow arrow combo.I find that at 20 yds an under I dont even consciously look at the arrow.At longer ranges I find myself paying more attention to the gap when drawing the bow.This past deer season I had a tree rat come by me on the ground.I don't remember gapping or aiming.The shot presented itself and I just pinned his head to the ground at 15 yds. :D



CB

RE: Aiming vs Instinctive
 

Here while back, I found out my left shoulder was in bad shape with arthritis and, rather than quit shooting, I switched to lefty. Knowing how to use my arrow as an aiming reference has made the transition pretty simple. I'm still not much good beyond 15 yards, but am making good progress. I tried instinctive when I first switched. It was scary how bad I was missing at 5 yards!

On a related note, I've certainly learned why Fred Bear leaned his head and canted his bow so much. Shooting lefty with a dominant right eye, you've GOT to do that to get the arrow under your 'good' eye.

RE: Aiming vs Instinctive
 

That would explain why I also shoot better when I cant the bow further and lean my head. I'm shooting right handed left eye dominant. You guys are full of good information.

RE: Aiming vs Instinctive
 

What LBR said really hit for me. When I first to archery, four years ago, I bypassed target archery and compound archery for the traditional stuff. I was told the only book I would need to learn to shoot was by Fred G. Asbell. Anyway, I practiced every day, and after three years my effective range shooting instinctively was hardly more than twenty yards. If I got out of the range, my arrows always fell short.

I know there are excellent instinctive shooters out there, but I have a feeling that instinctive shooting isn't so much instincts but training your mind to hold a certain position from a certain distance. At any rate, I bought Byron Ferguson's book become the arrow, and I am far more consistent now than I have ever been. Albeit, at around ten to fifteen yards I often revert back to instinctive. I like Ferguson's method because I have a better idea of where my arrow is going. Visualizing the path of the arrow before shooting has really helped me. I think I'm more of a mechanical person by nature, and Asbell's books were too rigid and non-explanatory for me. However, I'm sure they've worked for other people.

RE: Aiming vs Instinctive
 

help me understand something I have thought a lot on.

If you shoot same eye dominance (meaning left eye, left hand shooting, right eye right handed) is there any way you CANNOT use a sight system ? Either using the point of the arrow or the shaft, either consicously or subconsciously ?

I am cross dominant. When I pick up a left handed bows its very apparent to me as I draw to shoot the arrow, point and the lining up of those to the target. Shooting right handed (my "normal" way) its impossible to do that because of my left eye dominance.

See what I am getting at ?

RE: Aiming vs Instinctive
 

I've thought about that as well. I can honestly say that where my anchor is located (second molar), that the arrow should always be in my secondary vision. If the arrow isn't in my split-vision it won't hit. So for me, consciously or subconsciously, if I were to look for the arrow, for a shot I knew I was going to make, I would find it. I think that's one problem I had with Asbell's books, according to him I shouldn't have been able to see the arrow. To make up for that I tried turning my head, etc. All I ever managed to do without the arrow in my split vision was to miss. I think that in Asbell's case, with his finger pointed at the target method and high anchor, he must be aware of the arrow on a subconscious level.

I have met people who anchor to their chests, and they seem to be pretty accurate with that method. I know that one of them has absolutely no idea where the arrow is in his secondary vision. He draw to the right side of his chest and is right eye dominant. So, I think it depends on where the anchor point is.

RE: Aiming vs Instinctive
 

Datamax, there are two ways you can do that, and one is iffy. The iffy method would be similar to the Asbell method: swing draw (so your arrow is not in your line of sight), and release immediately (snap shoot). Still, you may get a split second to referance with the shaft.

The other is to shoot in total darkness. This will tell you real quick if you are really shooting "totally instinctive". I know I referance subconciously--it usually takes me a few shots to get "on" at a coon shoot. Sometimes I never do get it just right!

Chad