;) Here's what I said: Where I think so many people go wrong is believing..." />

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Aiming vs Instinctive

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Old 01-05-2005, 06:55 AM
  #1  
Giant Nontypical
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Default Aiming vs Instinctive

I was answering a question on the bowhunting forum about how long it takes to get good with a stickbow and thought part of my response would be good for a little pot stirring here.

Here's what I said:

Where I think so many people go wrong is believing they're supposed to shoot 'instinctive' because it's said that's the way the cavemen/indians/whoever shot. Well, I was taught to shoot indian fashion when I was a tyke, pinching the nock between my thumb and forefinger, drawing back almost to my face and eyeballing down the arrow at what I wanted to shoot. Nothing instinctive about it. I shot that way for a long time - and killed mucho game - before learning about anchor points and stuff.

The idea that the original archers - who survived by getting their meat and fighting off their enemies with the bow - shot instinctive doesn't make sense. When your life is on the line, I doubt you'd want to rely on The Force to make your arrow hit where you want it to. You're going to take careful aim before releasing. Besides that, good arrows were every expensive in terms of time and energy spent. They wouldn't have just jerked the string back and released that arrow willynilly into the ether and hoped for the best. They'd have aimed.

The arrow is right there in your field of vision. You might as well use it as an aiming reference. I'm positive our ancestors were smart enough to figure that out.

The aiming method I use is the split vision gap shooting style used by Howard Hill. Byron Ferguson explains it in his book "Become the Arrow" far better than Hill did. When you learn the gap system and use it enough to become confident, you eventually quit thinking about the gap. Your brain figures the distance and gap automatically. In other words, with time and experience the gap becomes more or less 'instinctive.'

For beginners, they can pick a gap at a given distance, see where the arrow strikes in relation to their aim point, then adjust their gap to put them on target. With instinctive, there is no way for them to make adjustment because they don't know where they were aiming to begin with. It takes a lot of trial and error - mostly error - to learn to shoot instinctive. A beginner using an aiming method will become a better shooter, faster, than another who's blundering about with instinctive shooting, stubbornly clinging to a false premise.
Comments?
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Old 01-05-2005, 07:25 AM
  #2  
Nontypical Buck
 
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Default RE: Aiming vs Instinctive

I stayed up late last night so I could finish Fred Bear's Archer's Bible, which I just started last night.

He has a section in it on different sighting methods- instinctive, gap, string walking and sites. He highly recomends one learn to shoot instictive, get the arrow under the eye and let the brain adjust elevation, for hunting, says it's more reliable and faster in hunting situations. I came to work today fully committed to continuing down the instictive path, then this

A beginner using an aiming method will become a better shooter, faster, than another who's blundering about with instinctive shooting, stubbornly clinging to a false premise.
He does however make a statement to the effect that a beginner should learn and aiming system in order to learn quicker, but then revert to learning instictive (is that an oxymoron?) for hunting purposes.

As you know, I'm a "beginner", and for the past few weeks have been shooting my recurve purely instictive. Can regularly hit the kill zone out to about 15 yards, any further and I get wild, I think it's because of the cement wall with the electrical service box on it directly behind my target Haven't had a chance yet to shoot outside at a local range where I don't have to worry about such things.

Art, to make up for this pot stirring, how 'bout posting a tutorial on your aiming method?
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Old 01-05-2005, 08:55 AM
  #3  
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Default RE: Aiming vs Instinctive

Uh oh... I know how I aim, but I don't know how well I can explain it. Now I'm gonna have to think! and it hurts!

Let's see. First I look at what I want to hit, pick my spot, and determine where I will hold the tip of my arrow in relation to the target. I don't think about yardage so much as I think about the trajectory my arrow will take to go the distance I'm looking at. That's the hard part to explain. Ferguson says to judge the distance in steps instead of yards. Maybe his way is better for a beginner.

Anyway, I've got my aim point determined and have visualized the shot and trajectory before I ever draw the bow. As I draw, I concentrate on the spot I've picked but am also keeping track of the arrow's tip in my peripheral vision. I never look directly at the arrow though. I'm focused on my spot but am aware of the arrow tip. I get to full draw: if my tip isn't on my aim point - my subconscious knows what I want and adjusts elevation during the draw, so it usually is on my aim point - I make adjustment and then release.

It doesn't take as long to do as it takes to explain. Everybody I've ever shot with comments on how quick I draw and shoot.
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Old 01-05-2005, 09:12 AM
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Default RE: Aiming vs Instinctive

ORIGINAL: Arthur P

Uh oh... I know how I aim, but I don't know how well I can explain it. Now I'm gonna have to think! and it hurts!

Let's see. First I look at what I want to hit, pick my spot, and determine where I will hold the tip of my arrow in relation to the target. I don't think about yardage so much as I think about the trajectory my arrow will take to go the distance I'm looking at. That's the hard part to explain. Ferguson says to judge the distance in steps instead of yards. Maybe his way is better for a beginner.
12 steps for me is 10 yards. How tall am I?

Anyway, I've got my aim point determined and have visualized the shot and trajectory before I ever draw the bow.
That's been one of my problems. Shooting so close, indoors, I can't really track my trajectory. I need to get outside and fling some at longer range so I can get a feel for what's going on. However, I still have 9 days left to bow hunt, so not till after then.

As I draw, I concentrate on the spot I've picked but am also keeping track of the arrow's tip in my peripheral vision. I never look directly at the arrow though. I'm focused on my spot but am aware of the arrow tip. I get to full draw: if my tip isn't on my aim point - my subconscious knows what I want and adjusts elevation during the draw, so it usually is on my aim point - I make adjustment and then release.
That made sense. Thanks.

It doesn't take as long to do as it takes to explain. Everybody I've ever shot with comments on how quick I draw and shoot.
Including your wife?

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Old 01-05-2005, 09:34 AM
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Default RE: Aiming vs Instinctive

Can't remember, do you shoot split finger or 3 under?

Gaps would be bigger at same ranges than 3 under since you're launching the arrow more up, right?

Which do you recommend for a "beginner" (please don't say 3 under please don't say 3 under please don't say 3 under...)
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Old 01-05-2005, 09:36 AM
  #6  
LBR
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Default RE: Aiming vs Instinctive

I think you did real good Art--thanks for sharing! In my opinion, Fred Bear suggests "instinctive" for hunting because often you don't have the time to judge the distance, gap, etc. However, like Art said, in time it will become automatic--you won't have to spend time doing that, your brain figures it out almost instantly.

I was watching my G. Fred "Instinctive Shooting" tape again last night (knocks me out when I'm having trouble going to sleep), and noticed all three of his "students" pausing before they released--obviously not snap shooting like he does. He gave them praise though, so I guess they were ok.[8D]

I think you will save yourself a lot of time and frustration learning to gap first, then letting instinct take over, vs. trying to train your brain to shoot instinctively from the beginning. You need referances, and aiming will get you on target quicker and make it more fun.

Chad
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Old 01-05-2005, 09:49 AM
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Default RE: Aiming vs Instinctive

Do you guy's feel Furgeson's book is the best read on gap shooting?
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Old 01-05-2005, 10:10 AM
  #8  
LBR
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Default RE: Aiming vs Instinctive

Ferguson's book is one of the best I've seen on shooting a bow, period. I don't agree with everything in it, especially the part about wood arrows, but I don't think you can beat it for simplicity and good information.

3-under gets the arrow closer to your eye, but IMO use whichever works best for you. I like split.

Chad
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Old 01-05-2005, 10:26 AM
  #9  
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Default RE: Aiming vs Instinctive

I've flung a few 3 under, doesn't feel good to me at all. Maybe later I'll give it an honest try when I've put the '04/'05 deer season behind me and can dedicate some real time to the recurve...
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Old 01-05-2005, 10:42 AM
  #10  
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Default RE: Aiming vs Instinctive

Range, I shoot both but usually stick with split. Gaps with 3-under would be tighter than the same gaps with split - assuming you anchor with the same finger with both. Anchoring with the index finger with 3-under, the gap would be pretty close to the same as shooting split but anchoring with the middle finger. (But that's getting a little bit into the theory of face walking, a whole 'nuther aiming method.)

When it comes to split finger vs 3-under, I don't think one is any better or worse than the other. To paraphrase what Chad said, you should use whichever feels most natural to you and gives you the most confidence.
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