Bard

Hello every one,
This is my first post on the traditional forums. I have been lurking for a while now. I am currently a compound user but just last week I got bit by the urge to go traditional..real bad. This winter my bow was constantly needing "tune ups". And after reading many of your posts I was inspired! This season will be my 3rd deer season that I have hunted. I plan to hunt this season with my compound, but I would like to switch this winter. Sooo....

I don't know any traditional shooters in my area. And frankly the guys at the pro shop are all about compounds. I have read here that I going to traditional shoots is one way. But for the sake of argument, lets say I can't test shoot a bunch of different bows. How do I know if I want to go with a Long bow or a recurve? What are the differences exactly? Money is a bit tight for me...so I don't want to buy a 600.00 bow that I will out grow in a year. (poundage wise that is). If I get a bow that is a take down, can I then later buy new limbs for it that will increase the poundage?

I curently shoot with a low rist grip with fingers. I like to shoot 3 fingers under my knock. does any of this affect they type or maker of bow I should look for?

I have many more questions, but I think this is enough to start. Any feed back would be great.
thanks.
Bard

CAJUNBOWHNTR

Man don't do it.It'll get under your skin and you won't be able to shake it.

Seriuosly I was in the same boat as you last year.Made the switch and have since sold my compound.Some of the things i have learned,some the hard way.

Get a bow that is 15#'s lighter than your compound draw weight.If your shooting 70+
#'s now don't get anything over 50#.

bear and martin make some quality bows,not custom,but good bows, and you don't have a several week or months wait on delivery.

Alot of guys will tell you to get a 60" or 62" ,or longer, bow to start.To me it really depends on your draw length.If your draw is under 28" you can get by with a 58" bow.If you are a knucle dragger then a longer bow would be a little smoother shooting.

Speaking of draw length,you will lose 1 to 2'' switching over.depends on the bow grip and your shooting style.With a real high wrist grip and a up right stance you may only lose 1".The lower the grip and the more you lean over into the shot,the more you lose.

Some guys will tell you that the bow tiller makes a difference,but in reality you can shoot any bow 3 under.If it's tillered for split finger it may be a tad louer and lose a little effiency,but not enough to worry with.

Shooting 3 under and learning to "gap"shoot will get you on target a lot quicker.Just my personal experience there.Byron fergusons book "become the arrow" is a good way to get started.

DONT overdo it.I had a tendency to shoot a lot when I started because it was so much fun.I wound up straining my shoulder and almost missing the bow season due to injury.Start out with a fairly light bow and take it easy.

If there is any way you can go to a shoot it would be worth it even if you have to drive several hours.I have been thru several custom longbows and recurves already.The one I keep coming back to is a 52" 30 year old bear kodiak mag.Having the opportunity to check out some bows in advance will save you some time and money finding the right one for you.Good luck and good shooting.You might want to check out www.tradgang.com.The board there is a little busier and they have a good classified section as well.


CB

Venoy

Everything that Cajun said is good advice. If you can, go to an all traditional shoot. Try to find a large one advertised in a traditional archery magazine. There will be several traditional bow companies represented and usually they will let you shoot their bows. I still go to a few tournaments, but I like the odd ball tournaments where you can shoot from a canoe, moving targets, or barrels mounted on trailers and pulled behind a 4 wheeler to simulate shooting from horse back. I also like one arrow survival shoots and coon shoots (night time tournaments). Traditional tournaments are different than compound tournaments and a lot more fun.

LBR

Some real good info. from Cajunbowhunter. He covered it well, but I'll throw in my 2 cents anyhow. [8D]

First, you don't have to spend anywhere near $600 to get a great bow, even a new one. You can spend that much or more, but don't think you have to in order to get a good bow. I've seen a friend of mine win gobs of trophies and kill lots of animals with an old Bear he paid $25 or $50 for.

With a take-down, you can get new limbs to change the length and poundage if you want. Some one-piece bows cost about the same or less than a new set of limbs though.

If you like to shoot low-wrist, you would need that type grip to accomodate you. You can shoot a low wrist grip with a high wrist, but not vice-versa. I prefer a medium wrist grip myself.

Like CB said, you can shoot any bow either way. A bow tillered for split fingers may be a little noisier shot 3-under, but it can be shot just as accurately.

I'll add that you might need to go even less than 15# below what you are used to on a compound, especially if what you have been shooting is high let-off. Go low enough that there is no doubt you can handle it while you work on your form. I also like Byron Ferguson's book better than any I have read. I don't agree with everything he says (especially about wood arrows), and I don't use the same style he does (I did start out that way though), but it's an easy read, easy to follow and understand. When you get proficient gap shooting, you will find it much easier to move on to "instinctive" if you choose to do that.

Bow length depends on your draw length, the type/style bow you go with, and personal preferance.

What part of the country are you in? We may be able to hook you up with a shoot that is close, or maybe even someone that lives near you that can help in person.

Chad

Arthur P

If you want to know most of what I would've written, just re-read Cajun's post. There's not much he left unsaid.

As for whether to go recurve or longbow... Back in the day when compounds were built to be shot with a medium to high wrist, recurves were the thing to go to when first switching. The grip style was very similar. Nowadays, compounds are intended to be shot low wrist, like longbows.

MOST longbows are not centershot as much as recurves, so they are more demanding about having properly spined arrows. Recurves are more centershot, so they can handle a somewhat wider variety of arrow spines.

Now, there are some recurves that have longbow style grips and non-centershot risers, some longbows that have recurve style grips and centershot risers. There are takedown bows that can be fitted with either recurve or longbow limbs. It's very hard to say which is best for a starter.

Still, if I had to pick one type to start someone off, it'd be a takedown recurve. You can order limbs in heavier draw weights as your strength - or needs - develop. If you can get one that also has longbow limbs available..... Icing on the cake.

Bard

Wow! thanks every one for your time and advice.

I live in Oregon. I know of only one traditinal shoot in this state (can't recall when or where right now as I don't have the info in front o f me.) After reading about the cool things they do at traditional shoots I am more excited then ever! That sounds like a blast!
Ok..some bow specs. I am shooting a Forge X-star (I got this bow cause I knew I wanted to shoot fingers, and it is one of the only modern compounds around that was built with that in mind). I am only shooting at 65# As per oregon law, it has a 65% let off. Now be aware that I can now hold this bow at full draw for about forever. My drawlength is (if I recall correctly) right at 28-29 inches. I am currently shooting easton's 340 axis arrows.

another question I have is will I be able to use my same arrows? I am thinking probably not..at least not right away. So based on these numbers..what kind of specs should I be looking for? After reading here and following your advice I am thinking some thing like...

62" 50# recurve with a med./low wrist grip.

one bow that caught my interest (though it is very expensive) was the the Texas long curve, by great plains bow company. As the name implies it is a recurve long bow hybrid. do you guys have any oppinion on bows by this company? (the long curve is 58" by the way)

c903

Bard:

A lot can and will be said regarding your possible transition to a non-wheel bow. In the meantime, I will suggest three initial considerations and let the input begin.

1. Do not let the term "traditional" mislead you. You do not have to wear a loincloth, shoot bare bow, and aim instinctively or use the "gap" method. I am a good instinctive shooter, but my new custom bow will have (recurve) sights, an adjustable rest, stabilizer, quiver mount, etc. I call it "Tradmod."
2. As a first-timer, I would not go the "longbow" route.
3. I strongly suggest you consider giving up a bit of energy and start with a 62" to 66" bow, dependent upon your draw-length. I prefer a 64" to 66" bow. Longer recurves are normally easier to shoot. A beginner should not have to cope with a bow that is hard to pull and has a tendency to stack, while trying to learn all the other relevant aspects of tuning and shooting a stick bow.

One of the most common errors a person makes when going the non-wheel bow route for the first time, is they over-bow (draw-weight) and they start with a bow that is too short.

As for loss of performance with longer recurves, it depends on the brand/type of bow. The custom bow I had made is a 50#@30" 66" TakeDown recurve. The bow has high performance limbs and is putting some good speed on the arrows. I shoot 3-fingers under and had the limbs tillered for the 3 under method. However, I have shot standard recurves for years using the 3 under with no obvious problems.

My suggestions are largely based on the price range you need to stay within.

LBR

I'd start out with a 40-45# bow. Work on form first--get it down so it's second nature. It will be a while before you know what type bow and poundage you will be most comfortable with. The bow length depends on the style, but I wouldn't go below 60" starting out with a recurve, 64" with a longbow--or longer.

Not likely you will be able to use the same arrows. You will need to match the arrows to your bow, then fine tune things like your strike plate, brace height, and nock set. I like to keep my arrow weight at no less than 8 grains per lb.--9 or 10 is better.

Do NOT buy a bow based just on looks. Great Plains has a good reputation, but don't base your selection on what looks cool. I've only shot one or two GP bows--those particular ones weren't for me, but that is just me. A 56" bow is going to be picky. Look around for a good used (cheap) bow to get started with.

Chad

Venoy

I went to a traditional archery tournament that had several stalking targets. Before the tournament started you were given a set of rules and told to read them. In the rules, it said to shoot only legal game as defined in the game and fish regulations. We came to a stalking target. It was a long rope that ran from tree to tree. You could step forward, but not backward. You can take the shoot anywhere along the rope. As you stalked down the rope, you saw an owl setting about 15 yards from the rope. Several people shot the owl. Only to find out that it was made of concrete. They received got a broken arrow and zero score for that target. The deer target was farther down the rope.

On a stalking target, you usually have a good shot early, but at a longer distance. As you get closer, there is more brush and the angle of the target changes, making the point rings smaller and harder to hit. Each group member stalks separately. After the group has finished, then a separate path is used to go to the target to get the arrows. That way, limbs are not broken and paths are not made from the rope to the target that could help shooters that come later.

Arthur P

Great Plains is a Texas outfit so, naturally, they make good bows. There are a whole mess of outstanding bowyers here in Texas.

You've got a bunch right there in Oregon, too: Brackenbury, Wes Wallace, Fox, Blacktail... With that many bowyers, Oregon has got to have lots of traditional shooters. Maybe if you contact some of those bowyers they can clue you in on places to go and people to meet.