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Old 02-17-2009, 12:21 PM
  #1  
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Default Traditional Guru's

I'm going to be Increasing my total arrow weight a good bit here real shortly. My FOC Is also going to get much higher due to taking some advice from Russ (Kanga) and a few others. I'm not going to quit shooting Snuffers but Instead I'm going to shoot a bigger and heavier Snuffer. I want to go with the the 185 grain screw on model broadhead Instead of the 125 grain screw on that I use now. Is my FOC going to Increase a good bit from this or am I going to have to add some weight? Also, where the heck do ya find 185 grain screw on heads? One more question, what's the difference from the XX75's and the XX78's?

My current set up Is-

Arrows- Easton XX75 2216 4" 4 fletched arrows cut at 31"
Broadheads- 125 grain 3 Blade Magnus Snuffers
Total arrow weight Including the BH- 561 grains
FOC- 7%

I'm pulling 61lbs with my recurve that I've hunted with forever but It might not be around anymore. Either way I'm buying another recurve and I'm going with something In that 65lb to 70lb range. I'm thinking both bows should be able to shoot the same arrow set up just fine being my recurve use to be at 73lbs at my draw length.
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Old 02-17-2009, 12:50 PM
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I don't think that moving from 125 to 185 will increase FOC all that much. You may want to looking into steel adapters and glue on heads.

But, here is my main caution. Aluminums do not fly all that well with extreme FOC. Personally, I could not get my aluminums to fly that great past about a 150 grain head. Iasked the question to Dr. Ashby himself and he found the same results with aluminum. With carbon though, I was able to get 26% FOC and had great flight. I was using 190 grain glue ons, adapter and brass insert. I also had 5 grain per inch tubes which made a 720 grain arrow.
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Old 02-17-2009, 01:17 PM
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Hi Bob,

Glad to see you say that about the aluminums. I thought I had gone crazy when trying to tune some 2018s with more tip weight. The more I added, the worse they flew and they were a little on the stiff side to begin with. Every carbon I've tried with extreme FOC has tuned perfectly. I guess I'll stick with the carbons.
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Old 02-26-2009, 05:19 AM
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ORIGINAL: BobCo19-65

I don't think that moving from 125 to 185 will increase FOC all that much. You may want to looking into steel adapters and glue on heads.

But, here is my main caution. Aluminums do not fly all that well with extreme FOC. Personally, I could not get my aluminums to fly that great past about a 150 grain head. Iasked the question to Dr. Ashby himself and he found the same results with aluminum. With carbon though, I was able to get 26% FOC and had great flight. I was using 190 grain glue ons, adapter and brass insert. I also had 5 grain per inch tubes which made a 720 grain arrow.
I've had very similar results with aluminum and heavy front loading. Carbons do much better.
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Old 02-26-2009, 07:10 AM
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My big Snuffers got here the other day along with my other stuff I ordered. Let me tell you these 160 grain Snuffers are huge and man are they built like tanks!!! I'm really Impressed by how there made and another thing that surprised me was that these are much, much sharper then the other Snuffers (125 screw ons) I usually get. I wasn't just too Impressed though by the amount of FOC I gained. I went from 7.1% with my other set up (33.75" 2216 with 125 grain Snuffer weighing 561 grains) to 12.5% FOC with this set up (31.75" 2216 with 160 grain glue on Snuffers with a 43 grain adapter weighing 614 grains total).

I took my recurve out and shot this new arrow set up of mine. They flew like darts, but then again my old set up did also for the most part. One thing I noticed was I didn't see near the drop In the longer yardages that I had with my lighter set up. I know this set up would be deadly, I know that for a fact being these arrows really thumped my target more then before and the penetration was more with this set up- I was a little worried on the penetration part being these are a huge fixed blade broadhead (1 15/32 cutting diameter). No plaining what so ever either but then again I didn't practice past 25 yards. In saying all this though I will go to FMJ's when I get these 2216's all used up, I have 8 of them left to burn up yet. Russ talked with me on the phone the other day and gave me a pile of Info on what I'd have for FOC, weight, etc. He also gave me some Info on just carbons alone, I don't know much about these carbon arrows. I'm also going to try and tweak my new set up one more time though and see what happens. I'm going to get some steel 100 grain adapters and throw one of them on a Snuffer and see how that flys to see If I can get that FOC higher yet and If they don't fly all to well, oh well, the way there set up now will do the job with out a doubt In my mind.

Thanks for all the good Info Russ with the FMJ's and other questions I had and thanks also to everyone else.
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Old 02-26-2009, 07:17 AM
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ORIGINAL: BobCo19-65

I don't think that moving from 125 to 185 will increase FOC all that much. You may want to looking into steel adapters and glue on heads.

But, here is my main caution. Aluminums do not fly all that well with extreme FOC. Personally, I could not get my aluminums to fly that great past about a 150 grain head. Iasked the question to Dr. Ashby himself and he found the same results with aluminum. With carbon though, I was able to get 26% FOC and had great flight. I was using 190 grain glue ons, adapter and brass insert. I also had 5 grain per inch tubes which made a 720 grain arrow.
Just to add my experience, I have found the opposite. You have much more experience than I. But with my zipper bow, I had 265gr up front with carbon gold tips. But never could get the right combo. But I had fantastic results with 2216's and 200gr up front. But with my black widow longbow, I had the exact opposite of that. I found Gold tip 7595's with 315gr up front flies awesome, and can't find a aluminum combo to work as well.

I think the trick of it, is being able to find that sweet spot to clear the riser but keeping oscillation down to a minimal to keep the arrow from showing weak reactions. And aluminum, the window for that with shooting off the shelf is very small. Where carbons won't oscillate near as much and you have a much wider range of operation. But either case, finding the sweet spot. I could be wrong.
 
Old 02-26-2009, 08:16 AM
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Default RE: Traditional Guru's

I'm going to get some steel 100 grain adapters and throw one of them on a Snuffer and see how that flys to see If I can get that FOC higher yet and If they don't fly all to well, oh well, the way there set up now will do the job with out a doubt In my mind.
Steve.

You know playing around with different set ups is 1/2 the fun of shooting

Thanks for all the good Info Russ with the FMJ's and other questions I had and thanks also to everyone else.
You are more than welcome my friend
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Old 02-27-2009, 04:46 PM
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Schultzy,

What are you planning to hunt that you feel the need to make these changes? Just curious.
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Old 02-28-2009, 01:40 PM
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What are you planning to hunt that you feel the need to make these changes?
I don't plan on hunting anything different but I'm the type of guy that If I think I can better my set up I'm going to do It. I've never really had any problems. I remember what you once said one other time (don't fix what Isn't broke) I'm really not fixing something, I'm actually just tweaking my same set up a tad In hopes of uping my percentages of something bad not happening. This FOC stuff makes allot of sense. All I did was throw a bigger and heavier BH (same BH but bigger and heavier) and get my FOC up some. It's still not as high as I wanted It to be but this will do for now. I do elk hunt out west so the higher FOC will help me for penetration using a 3 blade head. I've also noticed that my arrow flight so far has been perfect, not one kick out of my arrows like I'd get every once In a while before. I know my release Isn't the smoothest one out there but with the added weight on the end of my arrow that right there Is straightening my arrow out and hiding my bad releases here and there.

I do understand where your coming from though JRW. If for some reason this set up doesn't work this fall on a bear (hopefully I see one) I'll then go right back to my old set up. A little experimentation you could say, one doesn't know till he trys right?
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Old 03-01-2009, 11:02 AM
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Default RE: Traditional Guru's

Schultzy,

Thanks for the reply. I'm glad it's not a problem you're trying to fix so much as just improve on what's already working. It's fun tweaking stuff, and several months before deer season is definately the time to do it.
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