Big Duane

do you aim when you throw a baseball ? A football ? Hitting a golf ball ?

No, you don't, and you're not really shooting instinctive archery if you're trying to aim a bow

If you want to aim and sight .... use a non-bow, AKA compound contraption

BobCo19-65

A lot of people honestly believe that the only true instinctive shot is the first one ever taken.

Pesonally, I shootwhat Howard describes as conditioned instinctive.Itusually startsas gap, moves to secondary vision, then conditioned instinctive.

burniegoeasily

Leave it to Duane to bash a beginner. I can remember a time when you shot only a compound, so please leave the sanctimony at home for the wife and kids. You dont have to be a prick to everyone.[:@][:'(]


By the way big guy, when you going to become a real bow hunter and make your own gear. Until then, you need to give it a break.

burniegoeasily

Thats the best way to learn.

Chris W.

There are some exceptional people out there who can throw a baseball, football orplace a golf ball with pretty consitant, accuracy, but they are not the majority.The onesthat canget paid the big bucks in pro sports. Now, think about themajority of the population, yourself included,and howaccuratelythey/you reallythrow a baseball,a football or hit a golf ball. I knowhow well I do all of those things and, personally, I don't aspire to settle for thatlevel of accuracy andconsistancy in my shooting. Now, I know there are some that can shoot really well instinctively, I know a few,but they arecertainly in the minority, just like the high level, professional pitchers, quaterbacks and golfers of the world. Personal opinion, and this is really all it is, I believe the majority of "traditional" shooters would benefitin their shootingfrom learning a concious aiming method of some sort. Unfortunately, until the"If you want to aim and sight .... use a non-bow, AKA compound contraption "mentality changes in the" traditional community, many arenever going to realize how accurately they can really shoot with arecurve or longbow.

Big Duane

Chris W yes some are more talented than other, but Jordan, Bird, Magic, Lebron, Tiger, Arnold, Sampras, Federer, Agassi, Bonds, Griffey Jr, McGuire ...... none of them "aim"they just "do"

Now that said you CAN aim and shoot with a recurve/longbow. Well, I can't because I shoot cross dominant (impossible to "sight" being right handed shooter and left eye dominant and vice versa) but shooting same dominance point of reference, gap etc can be used but most people want to shoot trad to get away from all the gizmos and gadgets and to experience real bowhunting.

Buy a Dalaa or Gamemaster, trick it out stabilizers and elevated rest and fiber optic sights and SIMS sticky's all over it .... heck shoot a release too ...... but by doing all that did you really accomplish getting back to the basics ?

Chris W.

You're right, those individualsjust do what they do, but keep in mind the vast majority of the population will never be able to reach that level in their chosen sport. The individuals you mentioned are/were extremely giftedindividuals and consideredthe cream of the crop even among their peers.Many try to be like those individuals andthe majority fall way short. Same way in archery when folks try to immulatesome of thebig name archery icons. Rather than moving on and finding a shooting system that works for them and allows them to shoot with a decent level of accuracy and consistancy,they accept mediocrity all in thename of being what others deem"traditonal."


No one needs a tricked out bow with all the bells and whistles to utilize a concious aiming system of some sort. Though those shooting the tricked out FITA bows in the barebow competitionclasses typically do utilize some form of conscious aiming. My equipment, and the equipment of many others, is about as basic and simpleas the modern recurve and longbowcan get; with no elevated rest, no stab, no external attached sight, no mechanical release aids. It's just a bow, a string and an arrow. The only real differencebetweenmy shooting and your shooting, is howwe utilize what we have.

The last part of your statementabout experiencing "realbowhunting", now that's amusing .

Big Duane

I shoot the basketball the same way Jordan does (+/- a bit of form issues ) he's just better at it on a physical and mental scale.

I hit the ball like Tiger does and tennis balls like Andre. They're way better than me, no doubt, but the concept of how its done ? Same thing

I very likely shoot a recurve better than any of them. They've likely never done it before which gives me an edge

I have a theory too. Jordan, Agassi, Tiger - they could all be world class shooters. Why ? They're athletes. they have the physical skills and mental skills to master things like that. Their hand-eye coordinations are off the charts good.

Mine ? Not as good.





self bowyers are the Masters, and I bow down to them, no doubt

LBR

I had no idea that was what it was called at the time, but when I started shooting I found out that by gapping I was much more accurate. That is the whole point isn't it--to hit the mark?

I switched to traditional bows because I got tired of things getting bent/moved/loose/broke (primarily sight pins, rests, etc.). Then I found out I was a really lousy shot trying to shoot "totally instinctive".

Gapping is basically using the point of your arrow like a single sight pin--for a closer shot you have to hold low, for a long shot you have to hold high. Learning how low or how high to hold at a given distance is the "gap".

The most accurate archers I know are gap shooters. Most everyone uses some sort of referance, consiously or not. IBO World Champion Rod Jenkins--who has met and coached more than his share of archers--said he's only met one archer who he would call "totally instinctive"--a good friend of mine who passed away last August. Rod is also an accomplished hunter and deadly even on aireal targets.

One nice thing about gap shooting is--if you want--you will get to a point where it becomes second nature, and you don't conciously gap--you just focus on the spot. This is how I shoot now.

I'm no world champion by any stretch, but I have been lucky enough to win and place in a few big tournaments, including several wins in the selfbow class. Two wins at the Howard Hill, two at the Jerry Pierce, one at the TN Classic, along with a few second and third place finishes. I've been shooting a selfbow in tournaments for just a hair over two years now. The selfbow class doesn't generally have as many competitors, but the scores usually about the same as the longbow class, and we shoot from the same stake. I don't say this to be bragging, just to give a little background on myself--I do walk the walk. I haven't killed many critters with a selfbow yet, but that's more due to my hunting skills (or lack thereof) rather than being able to hit what I shoot at.

I'll go as far as to say there is no shame in putting sight pins on a trad bow, if that's what it takes. Once you get comfortable you can remove them, or if needed you can continue to use them. Not legal for most 3-D tournaments, but might be a big help hunting. They aren't for me, because that is one of the main reasons I started shooting trad--to get away from the things that bend/break/move--but back in the day sights were common on recurves.

FWIW, my definition of a "real" archer is one who will do what it takes to put the arrow in the spot--bale, foam animal, or live critter. IMO too many folks get caught up in the chest beating--I feel it's much more impressive to hit the spot rather than talk about being a "real" instinctive archer. Do what works best for you.

Chad

SteveBNy

Great info from Chris, Chad, Bernie and one or two others - if your goal is to achieve the accuracy potential of your equipment.

I personally wasted over a year when starting worrying about whats "trad" and acceptable to the retro trad crowd.
Then realized I wanted to be more then a 15 yard pieplate shooter with a recurve.

Steve