towerrat164

I would like to put forth my two cents worth of oppinion regarding crossbows. In what stretch of imagination can you compare a shoulder held, vertical plane, pre-drawn string weapon to a true bow?
Bows have to be drawn and for the most part aimed in a vertical or nearly vertical position; I suppose you could turn a crossbow sideways and fire it and I have seen trick shots of bows in a horizontal position. Crossbows are not archery period. Allowing them in a archery season is not something I wish to happen. I support a crossbow season seperate from archery such as most states offer a muzzleloader season seperate from firearms season. Compounds I can abide as they require the same skills and techniques of traditional bows to a large degree, but I draw the line there. As I said this is my two cents worth.

shoot straight, aim well,
and tell tall tales to
good friends

Dick4bows

Not that I'm in favor of sharing the archery season with crossbows but "Archery is archery". There are so many different classes when shooting in tournaments. Where do we stop? It's just a matter of preference. At Blackhawk Archers in Shireland, IL. , I saw guys using Atl-Atls. Not even a string! Who cares? If their having fun???? Just my opinion. I'm tired of the in-fighting.
Dick

mhogan

Me too. But crossbows have never been archery equipment so it isn't really in-fighting. It is fighting to keep an unwelcome outsider from coming in. I feel the same about rifle hunters that want to share the season with us.

Arthur P

Can of worms time again, huh?

History:

Crossbows were developed in China, and there is documentation that they used in battle more than 400 years BCE. That is some 1,600 years before guns. Crossbows are not bows mounted on gun stocks, guns are mounted on crossbow stocks.

Using the crossbow in battle against fellow Christians was banned by order of Pope Innocent I and the Lateran Council in the late 12th century, but they were fine and dandy to use against the Moslems in the Crusades.

They have a long history of being the hunting weapon of choice among the nobility, especially in Germany and Switzerland. Until guns were introduced.

Our disdain of the crossbow comes directly from our English ancestors who faced the crossbow in the hands of mercenaries hired into the French army. Since the combat crossbows of the time were drawn and shot mechanically instead of by the strength and skill demanded of longbowmen, crossbows have been always been considered an 'unmanly' weapon by the English yeomen.

Crossbows have competed in their own division in National Archery Association competitions since the late 1940's.

My opinion: If all bowhunters were shooting stickbows these days, I feel the answer to the question 'should crossbows be included in bowhunting seasons' would be an unqualified NO. But trads only make up some 5-6% of all bowhunters. Except for a small minority of compound shooters, almost all of the rest use high letoff bows, high tech sighting systems, high velocity arrows, mechanical releases, high tech vibration absorbing systems.... Hunting with compounds is practically as mechanical as hunting with crossbows. There is very little difference left between the two and the crossbow manufacturers are taking full advantage of it.

If I was King, I would outlaw mechanical releases, except for the disabled. I would institute a minimum arrow weight of 450 grains. Outlaw mechanical broadheads entirely. No electronic devices on the bow or arrows. No telescopic sights. 40" minimum bow length. No devices that lock a bow at full draw. There would be no need to even mention crossbows except for the severely disabled ('bad' shoulders don't count) because they could not meet those requirements.

But, I would give crossbows their own, exclusive two week season. Hey, bowhunters don't want to share their season with crossbows. Crossbows shouldn't have to share their season with bowhunters. Fair is fair.



Edited by - Arthur P on 01/05/2003 20:31:52

towerrat164

I agree Arthur P that crossbows should be allowed their own season. Michigan crossbow hunters want to hunt the same seasons as bowhunters. As bowhunters in Michigan we enjoy more days than firearms. I think crossbows should be allowed after the firearms season either before or after muzzleloader season (muzzleloaders are another hot topic). And to answer the hi-tech world of bowhunting, well I gave that up for the very reason it didn't feel much like hunting anymore. Thanks for your well researched oppinion. Cheers!
God bless the bowhunters of the world.

mhogan

Someone would still be losing some of that hunting pie they had before. I don't think it has anything to do with medieval times. I don't think they are what the founders had in mind when the created archery season in any manner. We allowed compounds and that is a stretch. Will muzzleloaders be next? Can we bow hunt in the hordes of hunters that rifle season sees? Just practice on running shots, I suppose.

I see some trad guys wanting to allow them and it appears from their posts that they are so disgusted with the technology of the modern compound that they are throwing in the towel. Like how much worse can it get? How about a rail rested shot through a 4 power scope at a deer 50 yards away? Fight for equipment restrictions, but don’t throw our season away in disgust.

Jim DE

Well, here's my .02 on this. In the 40 years I have shot arrows I have gone the complete gammit from LB's to curves, to the earliest of wheeled bows to international field crossbows and now I am back to longbows again. I won't change anymore.

But, from all these methods of shooting I can honestly state that the best of crossbows (mine was well over 1000.00 with adjustable palm swell, adj comb. adjustable butt hook, and infinately adjustable trigger pull and sighting) is not inherently as accurate as a good archer with a high tech compound. Side by side I could beat myself with the compound against the field crossbow everytime. Granted it takes more time to be accurate with a bow but the crossbows inherent accuracy is not near as good due to the ramped bolt track and movement that happens during the shot.

If the argument is anti crossbow because of some uninformed accuracy advantage that is perceived by archers....then it has no merit. The compound is far more accurate and we allowed them into the archery season.

My concern about crossbows is why some buy them and their safety afield. To some the crossbow is the easy way out and due to this lack of preparation goes with this thought.....they buy it do a quick sight setting and head afield.

To others due to criminal records they are unable to purchase firearms so they buy muzzle-loaders and crossbows. Now, I will state everyone makes mistakes and some may even get records and be innocent. But, we have all seen the slob muzzle-loader hunter at the ranges that only hunts that way because they have to. Their respect for wildlife and others leaves much to be desired. Do we want this mentality out in the woods with other dedicated archers who respect their game and their sport during an archery season? At least if they have to use a bow it does take some effort to learn to use one.

Bottomline.....I have no predudice against crossbows as a hunting weapon and in the proper hands I would welcome a crossbow hunter to hunt with me. In the wrong hands I would leave the woods for fear of an accidental discharge of a bolt from a cocked and carried crossbow. This has happened with crossbows afield without proper training.

Dick4bows

Here in Illinois, We already share the Muzzleloader season. We have to wear Orange if we choose to hunt during that weekend. I hunt it. We also allow crossbows during the archery season for handicapped hunters. Is this OK? It doesn't really bother me all that much. I do know that some of those who have the handicapped permits, don't really need them. Dick

Arthur P

mhogan, you still have never gotten the point I was trying to make when your buddies got me kicked off Bowsite. You understand what technology is doing to bowhunting but you still don't recognize that traditionalists make up 5-6% of all bowhunters. We're a footnote. A bunch of guys with the quaint idea of doing things the way they used to be done. We're living history reinactors. WE DON'T HAVE A BIG ENOUGH VOICE IN THE OVERALL PICTURE TO MAKE ANY IMPACT, WHATSOEVER.

If you think different, trot on over to the tech forum and tell them how trads think their hot new bows, fast arrows and stuff are messing up bowhunting and that they need to mellow out. I'll get the garden hose ready to douse your blazing rear when you get back. <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

We trads have fought for restrictions in Texas to the point where the fish and game commissioners roll their eyes at us. Anyone opposed to opening up the regulations to new equipment, like when they legalized the Drawlock, the first thing they say is, 'traditionalists again?'

The choices as I see them: Continuing to fight the crossbow on traditional grounds and be dismissed as kooks. Joining with compound shooters to fight the crossbow, when they shoot stuff just as bad, and be hypocrites. Working to help crossbows get their own season and settle the issue. Or just stand back and watch crossbows get incorporated into bow season.

Out of those choices, I would choose to help them get their own season, or their own hunting areas. That way, I don't lose any of my hunting pie, because I can pick up a crossbow and hunt with it just as easy as a crossbow hunter can pick up a bow and hunt bow season. And I keep my bow season free of shoulder stocked weapons except for the disabled.

Or there is another option. Get out of the fight altogether, let the current bow season go as it has been going, and let all us 'kooks' get together and start lobbying for a new bow season, or at least special area hunts, just for traditional. But then, that would make US the bad guys, trying to take a piece of someone else's pie.

Frankly, here in Texas with a one month bow season and the limited amount of public land we've got, it doesn't really matter too much. Except, of course, for us poor sun-of-a-guns that can't afford the ungodly lease fees and have to hunt public land, and it's mostly swamped with hunters anyway, crossbow or no. On a lease, it doesn't really matter whether the guys on the other side of the fence are hunting with longbows or compounds or crossbows.

Edited by - Arthur P on 01/05/2003 22:00:17

Edited by - Arthur P on 01/05/2003 22:51:07

Arthur P

Whoooeeeyy! The things that happen when you've been on the road all day and you're tired. I've had a serious case of the anti-tech virus for years and once you've got it, you'll never get rid of it. Relapses hit when you least expect them. I've desperately tried to be a good boy, a properly PC big tenter, but last night I got hammered by the bug...

I actually compared today's high tech bows and all their gadgetry to CROSSBOWS!

I'm swaying on the ledge and dangerously close to take the long fall into the shadows of elitism and righteous indignation! Somebody throw me a rope and pull me back inside the big tent! <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

Maybe one of these days I'll get smart and learn to leave crossbow threads alone. <img src=icon_smile_sad.gif border=0 align=middle>