DAS Dalaa ---- I just bought my third ever "new" bow
01-08-2007, 04:30 PM
#1
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DAS Dalaa ---- I just bought my third ever "new" bow
I have lost all confidence in a 52# longbow and 525 grain arrows ....... and I've struggled with going back to a compound, which has led me to one decision - go to a 55-56# recurve with a 600+ grain arrow combo. The result is this bad boy - a DAS Kenetics Dalaa from 3Rivers. I had a Gamemaster, and like the metal riser bows just fine. ThisDalaa is suppose to be everything - smooth, fast, stable - all pure hunting bow.
My last effort at staying traditional - and only thethird bow I've ever bought new(my other 2 were Adcock bows ) BTW this one was the last in stock he said, and it happens to be 62" limbs (60" is standard)
My last effort at staying traditional - and only thethird bow I've ever bought new(my other 2 were Adcock bows ) BTW this one was the last in stock he said, and it happens to be 62" limbs (60" is standard)
01-08-2007, 06:13 PM
#3
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Mississippi USA
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RE: DAS Dalaa ---- I just bought my third ever "new" bow
Hope it works out, but my thoughts are you are looking for answers in the wrong place.
Obviously I wasn't there and can't say what has gone wrong, but there's too many people that havekilled too many critters with everything from turtle slow selfbows to high performance recurves and longbows for me to think that your bows have been the problem, orthat their performance was the problem.
Maybe it's a mental thing and the DAS will be the ticket--hope so at least!
Chad
Obviously I wasn't there and can't say what has gone wrong, but there's too many people that havekilled too many critters with everything from turtle slow selfbows to high performance recurves and longbows for me to think that your bows have been the problem, orthat their performance was the problem.
Maybe it's a mental thing and the DAS will be the ticket--hope so at least!
Chad
01-08-2007, 06:51 PM
#4
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RE: DAS Dalaa ---- I just bought my third ever "new" bow
Chad - I don't know what it is ........... but the last two bucks I shot I didn't get penetration. With a compound I'd have killed both bucks, I KNOW more energy/umpffff behind my arrow would have done the trick.
Thus, a few pounds heavier recurve and I'll be shooting heavier arrows - maybe even (gasp) a pin
Thus, a few pounds heavier recurve and I'll be shooting heavier arrows - maybe even (gasp) a pin
01-09-2007, 08:50 AM
#6
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RE: DAS Dalaa ---- I just bought my third ever "new" bow
If you would ever get your sorry rear to a shoot, maybe someone will be able to help--hard to diagnose without seeing you shoot.
There has got to be something we've overlooked. Pappy (at Twin Oaks) killed a nice buck this season with his selfbow--I don't remember the poundage, but he doesn't shoot heavy-weights, has a short draw, and although his selfbows are really nice, they won't compare speed-wise to most laminated bows. A friend of mine in PA went to Africa a few years ago and killed a record-book gemsbok pulling 47@26 on her longbow. Complete penetration (broadhead stuck out the far side), and her bow is not one of those touted as a speed demon. A fellow I talk to in IN killed two carribou with his longbow, pulling 50-55 at 28" or less. Another fellow who contacted me a year or so ago shot clean through a black bear with his recurve, pulling about 52@29. It was a pass-through, including the off-side leg. The guide estimated this bear at 650+ pounds! Ed at ABS killed a water buffalo with hisAdcock, pulling only 65# (ain't nodeer on this planet anywhere near as tough as a water buffalo). Heck, Fred Bear killed an elephant with one arrow pulling only 75#, well before carbon arrows, FF strings, or super fast bows. As far as that goes, it seems the most common hunting weight back in the 60's was 40-45#.
The stories could go on, but you get my point. These aren't uncommon instances. I understand your delimma, but I don't think for a minute the bows themselves are the problem--too many other hunters have proven what a bow will do. I'm not trying to put down the DAS--from everything I've heard, they are a real nice bow, and may very well put a damper on some other "fastest bow" claims, BUT........whatever it is we are overlooking in your setup may not be covered even by the DAS.
By the accounts you gave, there is definately something wrong--but it ain't the bow. Also, I don't want anyone else--whether it's someone just getting into the sport, or an anti just looking for fodder--to get the wrong idea from your post.
Chad
There has got to be something we've overlooked. Pappy (at Twin Oaks) killed a nice buck this season with his selfbow--I don't remember the poundage, but he doesn't shoot heavy-weights, has a short draw, and although his selfbows are really nice, they won't compare speed-wise to most laminated bows. A friend of mine in PA went to Africa a few years ago and killed a record-book gemsbok pulling 47@26 on her longbow. Complete penetration (broadhead stuck out the far side), and her bow is not one of those touted as a speed demon. A fellow I talk to in IN killed two carribou with his longbow, pulling 50-55 at 28" or less. Another fellow who contacted me a year or so ago shot clean through a black bear with his recurve, pulling about 52@29. It was a pass-through, including the off-side leg. The guide estimated this bear at 650+ pounds! Ed at ABS killed a water buffalo with hisAdcock, pulling only 65# (ain't nodeer on this planet anywhere near as tough as a water buffalo). Heck, Fred Bear killed an elephant with one arrow pulling only 75#, well before carbon arrows, FF strings, or super fast bows. As far as that goes, it seems the most common hunting weight back in the 60's was 40-45#.
The stories could go on, but you get my point. These aren't uncommon instances. I understand your delimma, but I don't think for a minute the bows themselves are the problem--too many other hunters have proven what a bow will do. I'm not trying to put down the DAS--from everything I've heard, they are a real nice bow, and may very well put a damper on some other "fastest bow" claims, BUT........whatever it is we are overlooking in your setup may not be covered even by the DAS.
By the accounts you gave, there is definately something wrong--but it ain't the bow. Also, I don't want anyone else--whether it's someone just getting into the sport, or an anti just looking for fodder--to get the wrong idea from your post.
Chad
01-09-2007, 11:41 AM
#7
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RE: DAS Dalaa ---- I just bought my third ever "new" bow
Chad - I've kinda changed my views after the past few wounds I've made.
I KNOW a 52# bow will kill anything in North American - so will a .22 but the problem is, what IF your arrow isn't exactly placed ?
When that happens you need all the cutting edge, and penetration you can get. MANY things factor into this ........ type and design of broadheads, sharpness, flight of arrow (tuning), diamter of arrow shafts, ummmmpffhhh behind the arrow thats from bow poundage, KE and momentum etc .........
22' up in a tree, 22 yard shot, thats a GREAT angle, and your arrow flight is perfect and whacks the buck 4-5" below the spine ......... high hig, but the angle SHOULD take out both lungs, right ? Or if you hit the backbone, break the backbone even ? Broadside and I mean everything looked perfect, but my 525 grain arrows, 3 blade ultra super sharp G5 broadheads powered by a 52# longbow didn't penetrate enough.
Why ?
I'll never know. I shot a buck very similar 2 years ago too ........ and didn't penetrate enough. Why ?
I DO know this ........ if I'd been shooting a 55# recurve, I'd have had more energy behind that arrow, if I'd have been shooting 600-625 grain arrows, my KE and momentum would have been more. That would have given me a better chance to penetrate deep enough for a clean kill instead of a wounded deer.
Its terrible to lose a deer, I ultra analayze everyting .. short of going to a compound, I can only change from longbow to recurve (gaining power in the process) and going up 3-4 pounds in draw weight (gaining power in the process) and adding 100 grains of arrow weight (gaining KE and momentum in the process)
Will I shoot/hit high in the future ? Maybe ......... and if I do, I'll have a better chance of breaking those heavier high rib bones with a 625 grain arrow powered from a 56# DAS recurve than with a 525 grain arrows powered from a 52# longbow.
Do you agree with that, all things being equal ?
I KNOW a 52# bow will kill anything in North American - so will a .22 but the problem is, what IF your arrow isn't exactly placed ?
When that happens you need all the cutting edge, and penetration you can get. MANY things factor into this ........ type and design of broadheads, sharpness, flight of arrow (tuning), diamter of arrow shafts, ummmmpffhhh behind the arrow thats from bow poundage, KE and momentum etc .........
22' up in a tree, 22 yard shot, thats a GREAT angle, and your arrow flight is perfect and whacks the buck 4-5" below the spine ......... high hig, but the angle SHOULD take out both lungs, right ? Or if you hit the backbone, break the backbone even ? Broadside and I mean everything looked perfect, but my 525 grain arrows, 3 blade ultra super sharp G5 broadheads powered by a 52# longbow didn't penetrate enough.
Why ?
I'll never know. I shot a buck very similar 2 years ago too ........ and didn't penetrate enough. Why ?
I DO know this ........ if I'd been shooting a 55# recurve, I'd have had more energy behind that arrow, if I'd have been shooting 600-625 grain arrows, my KE and momentum would have been more. That would have given me a better chance to penetrate deep enough for a clean kill instead of a wounded deer.
Its terrible to lose a deer, I ultra analayze everyting .. short of going to a compound, I can only change from longbow to recurve (gaining power in the process) and going up 3-4 pounds in draw weight (gaining power in the process) and adding 100 grains of arrow weight (gaining KE and momentum in the process)
Will I shoot/hit high in the future ? Maybe ......... and if I do, I'll have a better chance of breaking those heavier high rib bones with a 625 grain arrow powered from a 56# DAS recurve than with a 525 grain arrows powered from a 52# longbow.
Do you agree with that, all things being equal ?
01-09-2007, 01:01 PM
#8
Boone & Crockett
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RE: DAS Dalaa ---- I just bought my third ever "new" bow
No doubt that going with a more efficient/better penetrating set-up will penetrate better, all else being equal--but was that the problem?
I know what you mean about the .22, but I can't help but thing there's more to it. For instance, on the last Double Bull DVD's, one of the owners (forget his name) killed an antelope. The arrow entered and exited on the same side of the animal--how in the world does that happen? I saw the shot in slow motion and it still didn't make much sense, but it happened. I haven't experienced a shot like that on a live animal, but I've heard of them. I've even heard about deer turning 180 degrees from the time the arrow was released until it got there--and that was with a compound. Hunter aimed at one side of the deer, hit it on the opposite side. Weird stuff can happen.
Another thing that makes me wonder--when a guy can get a pass-through, including one leg, on a 650+ pound bear, even hittingthe heaviest part of arib on a deer shouldn't be any harder than penetrating that much hair/hide/flesh. I don't recall the arrow being extra heavy either, but he did use a 2 blade broadhead.
Too many "what if's" for me to even pretend I know what went wrong--I don't have a clue. I do know you should have had more than enough bow to bust through deer ribs though, all else being right.
Just don't want you to hang it up due to a freak occurance, or discourage anyone else that is considering taking up trad archery. I do think it's a freak occurance, even twice in a row--I've never heard of anyone else having even similar luck.
Chad
I know what you mean about the .22, but I can't help but thing there's more to it. For instance, on the last Double Bull DVD's, one of the owners (forget his name) killed an antelope. The arrow entered and exited on the same side of the animal--how in the world does that happen? I saw the shot in slow motion and it still didn't make much sense, but it happened. I haven't experienced a shot like that on a live animal, but I've heard of them. I've even heard about deer turning 180 degrees from the time the arrow was released until it got there--and that was with a compound. Hunter aimed at one side of the deer, hit it on the opposite side. Weird stuff can happen.
Another thing that makes me wonder--when a guy can get a pass-through, including one leg, on a 650+ pound bear, even hittingthe heaviest part of arib on a deer shouldn't be any harder than penetrating that much hair/hide/flesh. I don't recall the arrow being extra heavy either, but he did use a 2 blade broadhead.
Too many "what if's" for me to even pretend I know what went wrong--I don't have a clue. I do know you should have had more than enough bow to bust through deer ribs though, all else being right.
Just don't want you to hang it up due to a freak occurance, or discourage anyone else that is considering taking up trad archery. I do think it's a freak occurance, even twice in a row--I've never heard of anyone else having even similar luck.
Chad
01-09-2007, 01:34 PM
#9
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RE: DAS Dalaa ---- I just bought my third ever "new" bow
LBR - first trad deer (only) I killed was with that 52# longbow, same weighted carbons and a 3 blade Thunderhead. Double lung, and though I didn't pass through I punhced one side and almost punched through the other, 18 yards.
For certain my arrows SHOULD have hit 4-5" lower than what they did, however, I've been around bowhunting and hunting long enough to recognize what SHOULD have been a solid hit - that deer I hit in KS was a DEAD DEER with an arrow that had more power behind it, I'm 100% certain and sure of it. How it didn't have enough as it was leads me to think I dead centered a high rib bone, this was a 250#-275# KS whitetail, angled down shot ....... its high rib bones stopped my arrow. I'm certain an arrow with more power would have broke through.
And so the DAS is on the way - 56# instead of 52# which will help, recurve instead of longbow which will help, and I'll go up into the 600-625 grain range instead of 525 grains, which will help. Just trying to minimize the things that can go wrong, making adjustments best I can you know ?
For certain my arrows SHOULD have hit 4-5" lower than what they did, however, I've been around bowhunting and hunting long enough to recognize what SHOULD have been a solid hit - that deer I hit in KS was a DEAD DEER with an arrow that had more power behind it, I'm 100% certain and sure of it. How it didn't have enough as it was leads me to think I dead centered a high rib bone, this was a 250#-275# KS whitetail, angled down shot ....... its high rib bones stopped my arrow. I'm certain an arrow with more power would have broke through.
And so the DAS is on the way - 56# instead of 52# which will help, recurve instead of longbow which will help, and I'll go up into the 600-625 grain range instead of 525 grains, which will help. Just trying to minimize the things that can go wrong, making adjustments best I can you know ?