DAS Dalaa ---- I just bought my third ever "new" bow
 

I have lost all confidence in a 52# longbow and 525 grain arrows ....... and I've struggled with going back to a compound, which has led me to one decision - go to a 55-56# recurve with a 600+ grain arrow combo. The result is this bad boy - a DAS Kenetics Dalaa from 3Rivers. I had a Gamemaster, and like the metal riser bows just fine. ThisDalaa is suppose to be everything - smooth, fast, stable - all pure hunting bow.

My last effort at staying traditional - and only thethird bow I've ever bought new(my other 2 were Adcock bows ) BTW this one was the last in stock he said, and it happens to be 62" limbs (60" is standard)

RE: DAS Dalaa ---- I just bought my third ever "new" bow
 

Wow! Thats a good lookin' bow! My wife would cough up a kidney if I ever spent that much on a bow!

RE: DAS Dalaa ---- I just bought my third ever "new" bow
 

Hope it works out, but my thoughts are you are looking for answers in the wrong place.

Obviously I wasn't there and can't say what has gone wrong, but there's too many people that havekilled too many critters with everything from turtle slow selfbows to high performance recurves and longbows for me to think that your bows have been the problem, orthat their performance was the problem.

Maybe it's a mental thing and the DAS will be the ticket--hope so at least!

Chad

RE: DAS Dalaa ---- I just bought my third ever "new" bow
 

Chad - I don't know what it is ........... but the last two bucks I shot I didn't get penetration. With a compound I'd have killed both bucks, I KNOW more energy/umpffff behind my arrow would have done the trick.

Thus, a few pounds heavier recurve and I'll be shooting heavier arrows - maybe even (gasp) a pin

RE: DAS Dalaa ---- I just bought my third ever "new" bow
 

Awesome bow!!! Definitely on my wish list for the next couple years.......... Good luck, I think this is a good move on your part! Enjoy it my friend!

RE: DAS Dalaa ---- I just bought my third ever "new" bow
 

If you would ever get your sorry rear to a shoot, maybe someone will be able to help--hard to diagnose without seeing you shoot.

There has got to be something we've overlooked. Pappy (at Twin Oaks) killed a nice buck this season with his selfbow--I don't remember the poundage, but he doesn't shoot heavy-weights, has a short draw, and although his selfbows are really nice, they won't compare speed-wise to most laminated bows. A friend of mine in PA went to Africa a few years ago and killed a record-book gemsbok pulling 47@26 on her longbow. Complete penetration (broadhead stuck out the far side), and her bow is not one of those touted as a speed demon. A fellow I talk to in IN killed two carribou with his longbow, pulling 50-55 at 28" or less. Another fellow who contacted me a year or so ago shot clean through a black bear with his recurve, pulling about 52@29. It was a pass-through, including the off-side leg. The guide estimated this bear at 650+ pounds! Ed at ABS killed a water buffalo with hisAdcock, pulling only 65# (ain't nodeer on this planet anywhere near as tough as a water buffalo). Heck, Fred Bear killed an elephant with one arrow pulling only 75#, well before carbon arrows, FF strings, or super fast bows. As far as that goes, it seems the most common hunting weight back in the 60's was 40-45#.

The stories could go on, but you get my point. These aren't uncommon instances. I understand your delimma, but I don't think for a minute the bows themselves are the problem--too many other hunters have proven what a bow will do. I'm not trying to put down the DAS--from everything I've heard, they are a real nice bow, and may very well put a damper on some other "fastest bow" claims, BUT........whatever it is we are overlooking in your setup may not be covered even by the DAS.

By the accounts you gave, there is definately something wrong--but it ain't the bow. Also, I don't want anyone else--whether it's someone just getting into the sport, or an anti just looking for fodder--to get the wrong idea from your post.

Chad

RE: DAS Dalaa ---- I just bought my third ever "new" bow
 

Chad - I've kinda changed my views after the past few wounds I've made.

I KNOW a 52# bow will kill anything in North American - so will a .22 but the problem is, what IF your arrow isn't exactly placed ?

When that happens you need all the cutting edge, and penetration you can get. MANY things factor into this ........ type and design of broadheads, sharpness, flight of arrow (tuning), diamter of arrow shafts, ummmmpffhhh behind the arrow thats from bow poundage, KE and momentum etc .........


22' up in a tree, 22 yard shot, thats a GREAT angle, and your arrow flight is perfect and whacks the buck 4-5" below the spine ......... high hig, but the angle SHOULD take out both lungs, right ? Or if you hit the backbone, break the backbone even ? Broadside and I mean everything looked perfect, but my 525 grain arrows, 3 blade ultra super sharp G5 broadheads powered by a 52# longbow didn't penetrate enough.

Why ?

I'll never know. I shot a buck very similar 2 years ago too ........ and didn't penetrate enough. Why ?

I DO know this ........ if I'd been shooting a 55# recurve, I'd have had more energy behind that arrow, if I'd have been shooting 600-625 grain arrows, my KE and momentum would have been more. That would have given me a better chance to penetrate deep enough for a clean kill instead of a wounded deer.

Its terrible to lose a deer, I ultra analayze everyting .. short of going to a compound, I can only change from longbow to recurve (gaining power in the process) and going up 3-4 pounds in draw weight (gaining power in the process) and adding 100 grains of arrow weight (gaining KE and momentum in the process)

Will I shoot/hit high in the future ? Maybe ......... and if I do, I'll have a better chance of breaking those heavier high rib bones with a 625 grain arrow powered from a 56# DAS recurve than with a 525 grain arrows powered from a 52# longbow.

Do you agree with that, all things being equal ?

RE: DAS Dalaa ---- I just bought my third ever "new" bow
 

No doubt that going with a more efficient/better penetrating set-up will penetrate better, all else being equal--but was that the problem?

I know what you mean about the .22, but I can't help but thing there's more to it. For instance, on the last Double Bull DVD's, one of the owners (forget his name) killed an antelope. The arrow entered and exited on the same side of the animal--how in the world does that happen? I saw the shot in slow motion and it still didn't make much sense, but it happened. I haven't experienced a shot like that on a live animal, but I've heard of them. I've even heard about deer turning 180 degrees from the time the arrow was released until it got there--and that was with a compound. Hunter aimed at one side of the deer, hit it on the opposite side. Weird stuff can happen.

Another thing that makes me wonder--when a guy can get a pass-through, including one leg, on a 650+ pound bear, even hittingthe heaviest part of arib on a deer shouldn't be any harder than penetrating that much hair/hide/flesh. I don't recall the arrow being extra heavy either, but he did use a 2 blade broadhead.

Too many "what if's" for me to even pretend I know what went wrong--I don't have a clue. I do know you should have had more than enough bow to bust through deer ribs though, all else being right.

Just don't want you to hang it up due to a freak occurance, or discourage anyone else that is considering taking up trad archery. I do think it's a freak occurance, even twice in a row--I've never heard of anyone else having even similar luck.

Chad

RE: DAS Dalaa ---- I just bought my third ever "new" bow
 

LBR - first trad deer (only) I killed was with that 52# longbow, same weighted carbons and a 3 blade Thunderhead. Double lung, and though I didn't pass through I punhced one side and almost punched through the other, 18 yards.

For certain my arrows SHOULD have hit 4-5" lower than what they did, however, I've been around bowhunting and hunting long enough to recognize what SHOULD have been a solid hit - that deer I hit in KS was a DEAD DEER with an arrow that had more power behind it, I'm 100% certain and sure of it. How it didn't have enough as it was leads me to think I dead centered a high rib bone, this was a 250#-275# KS whitetail, angled down shot ....... its high rib bones stopped my arrow. I'm certain an arrow with more power would have broke through.

And so the DAS is on the way - 56# instead of 52# which will help, recurve instead of longbow which will help, and I'll go up into the 600-625 grain range instead of 525 grains, which will help. Just trying to minimize the things that can go wrong, making adjustments best I can you know ?

RE: DAS Dalaa ---- I just bought my third ever "new" bow
 

Buster T,

That will be more than enough!! I'm ready to follow your KS hunt next year! Good luck and be sure to give me a review when you get that Dalaa!

RE: DAS Dalaa ---- I just bought my third ever "new" bow
 

I've heard good things about that bow.

RE: DAS Dalaa ---- I just bought my third ever "new" bow
 

Did you hit any bones on that shot? If not, that for sure tells me there is something else being overlooked. Even if you hit a rib, that should have been a pass-through IMO.

I get to talk to a lot of people from all over, and get to hear a lot of hunting stories. Obviously I can't confirm them, but I've heard too many from too many people I trust to think that all the ones about killing really big animals with lighter bows are a lie--I really don't think any of them are. I've heard about elk, bear, even moose, being killed regularly with bows pulling less than 50#. I've got pictures of the 650+# bear, the gemsbok, and the two carribou.

I also know weird things can happen--I witnessed a spruce grouse taking a solid hit (square in the chest--the arrow literally bounced off) from a 65# longbow, 600+ grain arrow with a rubber blunt, from maybe 15 feet. The bird fell about 3 feet, righted itself, and flew to another tree, then flew off when a second arrow missed. I'd have dang near bet my right arm that bird would have been dead on the spot, but it flew off after taking a hit that would have knocked a grown man flat on his back.

Again, don't get me wrong. Everything I've heard about the DAS has been positive--this has just got me puzzled. My concern is if whatever hasn't been right isn't corrected or covered with the DAS, lightening may strike a third time. There's no doubt whatsoever that the DAS and a 600 grain arrow is more than enough--that should be plenty to shoot through two deer.I just don't think the bow was the problem to begin with.

I'm curious to know what has gone wrong with the other two. Hopefully we (a couple of friends and myself) will get to do some hands-on tests the first weekend of March--headed to SC for hogs. I shoot 66#, but both of them shoot lighter bows and medium weight arrows--maybe they will get a shot at a big hog and we'll see what kind of penetration they get.

Chad

RE: DAS Dalaa ---- I just bought my third ever "new" bow
 

22 yards out, 20' up in a tree or so, which is a great angle, broadside and nothing between him but me and air and yes, I hit way high up on the rib cage, I don't think I hit backbone, just below it where the thick ribs come off the spine. Of course, hard to tell 1" from 2" below etc ....... but on impact there wasn't a loud crack like hitting ribs normally give, yet I only got 4-5" penetration or ?? Again, a deer running off its hard to tell if 24" is sticking out or if 23" is, you know ?

But, I've hunted a lot, shot a lot of game, I know when an arrow is suppose to break through and double lung - this hit should have.

It didn't - why ?

I dunno why ......... but I DO know it would have had greater chance to break through wit a few more pounds heavier bow andanother 100 grains of arrow weight behind it.

Agree or no ?

RE: DAS Dalaa ---- I just bought my third ever "new" bow
 

I meant did you hit any bones on the one you killed, but didn't get a pass-through on.

Obviously with a heavier arrow and draw weight, you should get better penetration unless the arrow is hitting practically sideways. What's puzzling me is you should have gotten much better penetration that you got with the bow you used, bones or not. Deer aren't built like tanks, even in KS.

There are instances where more draw weight isn't better. I tried bowfishing with my 98@28 flatbow one night. Couldn't figure out for the life of me why I wasn't sticking any fish--I should have been buring my arrow in the mud every shot. Finally shot where the light was shining, and discovered the arrow was hitting the water almost sideways, and veered off wildly as soon as it was in the water. Weird things can happen. It's not my bow and it's not my hunt, but I'm still wondering what happened with those two deer, and hope the DAS is the cure.

Chad

RE: DAS Dalaa ---- I just bought my third ever "new" bow
 

Cut low ribs going in, broke but didn't pass through ribs on opposite side. I did have a Thunderhead broadhead on that arrow.

I dunno either ........ I remember GORGEOUS arrow flight right before the hit


Thats the only thing I know to do ....... I will not keep shooting and losing deer, I've reached a turning point and this bow will either save me from the Dark Side of archery or I'll go buy a Mathews.

Time will tell

RE: DAS Dalaa ---- I just bought my third ever "new" bow
 

Have you ever paper tuned or bare-shafted your set-up?

Don't blame you for not wanting to wound a deer at all, but there's something wrong somewhere.

Chad

RE: DAS Dalaa ---- I just bought my third ever "new" bow
 

Buster, congrats on the new bow. Thought i would add my 2 cents in here although its probably worth considerably less than that.

Chad brought up some great points but there is one thing that happened to me that I thought of reading your post.
One september along time ago I made a poor shot on a big cow elk and endded up hitting her in the shoulder blade. Granted at that time I was shooting a compound bow and eventually I did find her again and finished the job, but it was 4 days later. I lost all confidence in that bow and never could actually kill anything with it again.

Call it gremlins,mojo,spirits whatever it is that bow had to go away for me to feel confident in my shooting again. Cant help about thinking about some of the American Indians that refused to pick up an arrow that missed thinking it was cursed.

Anyway good luck with the new bow!

Bill

RE: DAS Dalaa ---- I just bought my third ever "new" bow
 

Chad - strip the feathers off and my arrows have gorgeous arrow flight. Very tuned bow - that aint the problem either.

The problem #1 is I hit high. But I still believe it wasn't so high that I shouldn't have gotten a kill.

I shot the DAS yesterday evening ......... I wasn't blown away for many picky reasons. Some bows have the feel, some don't. DAS is ultra quiet and vibration free, had good speed, looked to be a very tunable bow. The grip doesn't work with my little hands, it wasn't super fast, and a couple of other little things that will have me sending it back.

[X(]


Had to try it ......... I'll be looking for another bow (likely a Silvertip) because yes Rogue, I think the mojo on my longbow has been lost due a lot to faith in it. I dunno if I can restore that or not .........

RE: DAS Dalaa ---- I just bought my third ever "new" bow
 

Kind of agree with what LBR is saying. I don't use a no-cut on contact broadhead (i.e Thunderhead, Sattelite, Wasp), it robs you of bunches of penetration ability/power, and this was no reading, I did my own unscientific test. But good luck with your new bow, I have heard nothing but good about DAS.

RE: DAS Dalaa ---- I just bought my third ever "new" bow
 

Longbow Bowhunter

I've bowhuted for ..... gosh, 20 years now ? I've killed a lot of animals, elk, mule deer, whitetails. I've destroyed a lot of broadheads and I found one constant - a 2 blade broadhead will tip curl / bend if they strike something heavy/hard. I've bent/broken Magnus, Zwickey, Bear and quite a few others. The braodheads that DON'T tip curl at the Thunderhead type heads.

That said, a two blade WILL out penetrate because they have less surface area cutting - its an aerodynamic thing IMO. One blad slicing cuts deeper than two, both cut deeper than three and all of those cut seeper than four.

All things being equal in my opinion, a small diameter 3 blade broadhead like the G5 Strikers I used this year, ulta, ULTRA sharp and a cutting tip, will cut just as deeply as a big 2 blade broadhead that might not be quite as sharp.


I've killed one deer with my trad bow. 200 pound KS whitetail, 3 blade Thunderhead.

I've lost a couple of deer ...... and I shot a variety of other heads along the way.

Its my opinion, based on my personal experience, NOTHING beats an ultra sharp head, and very few bowhunters can sharpen a Zwickey or COI head like that as sharp as a factory Thunderhead of G5. So while a 2 blade Zwickey will penetrate better than a 3 blade Thunderhead, it might not if its not ultra, ultra sharp.

Again, my opinion only. My #1 problem is not shooting the animal low enough. my #2 problem is a 52# longbow IMO.

I can fix the #2 by going to a heavier bow. The #1 is MUCH harder to fix and I don't know how to do it. I'm at a loss ......... because my practice is hunt-like, from a treestand, odd positions etc. Maybe shoot 3D this year if I can ?Maybe try a pin ? I dunno ........ I really don't.

RE: DAS Dalaa ---- I just bought my third ever "new" bow
 

Have you ever tried modifying the tips on the COC heads as Dr. Ashby suggests? It can really work wonders on tip curling.

RE: DAS Dalaa ---- I just bought my third ever "new" bow
 

Stingers are built with a modified tip - no, all COI resharpenable type broadheads I field tested myself tip curled from somewhat to terrible bent.

Zwickeys were the best. All others were bad to terrible.

I don't think its the broadheads ........ shot placement is the most critical thing I'm NOT doing. I know this. But on shots that kinda go bad ........ I need a 55-56# recurve and 600+ grain arrows IMO now

I might try Grizzly broadheads ........ my buddy swears by them and I've never shot them before. Big ole heads, I know that !

RE: DAS Dalaa ---- I just bought my third ever "new" bow
 

Grizzly heads are tough, but can be tricky to sharpen. Haven't shot anything with them yet because I didn't take the time to figure out how to get them as sharp as I want.

Ribteks are very tough, easy to sharpen, and hold an edge--I've never curled a tip on one. Biggest critter I've shot with those was a TN whitetail, 165-170#.Nicked a rib going in, nicked a rib coming out, arrow buried up 7 5/8" into the ground, no damage to the head.

File the needle tip of a Wensel Woodsman, and they are very tough, sharpen great, and are a lower profile head. The only critters I've shot with WW's were a small hog and a small deer, but penetration was excellent--the arrow never seemed to even slow down with the hog (never found it), and the one on the deer buried up in the ground.

You can damage most any broadhead, but usually that won't happen on an animal, at least not to the point the head doesn't do it's job. The old Bear heads are far from indestructable, but they worked on an elephant. Ribteks are cheap, but many water buffalo and other huge animals have fallen to them. The most recommended head I've seen for water buffalo (I have researched this a lot, because I plan to go for one myself eventually) is the Grizzly.

I still think there's something that's been overlooked. There's too many people that have killed too many animals of the same size and bigger with bows pulling the same and less. It's bugging the snot out of me to figure out just what the missing link is.

Chad

3-D is, in my opinion, the best hunting practice you can get other than actually hunting. You have unknown distances in places you aren't real familiar with, uphill, downhill, brushy, etc. shots, targets can be angles, you shoot at animal targets, you have to walk the course, and you have the tension of your peers whatching you shoot--it's not the same as shooting at an animal, but probably as close as you will get.

Just watching the arrow flight is not a reliable indicator. For bare shafting, you need a soft foam target to see how the arrows are impacting. Paper tuning will also show a lot more than your eyes can.

RE: DAS Dalaa ---- I just bought my third ever "new" bow
 

Well, stealth, nice looking bow, but if I was going that direction, might as well, go back to compound.Sounds like you like it more anyway.

RE: DAS Dalaa ---- I just bought my third ever "new" bow
 

There is nothing about a Das/Dalaa that gives any validity to a compound comparison.
Everything on one is technology that was in wide use long before compounds came on the scene.
It is simply one of the best designed HUNTING RECURVES out there - nothing what so ever to do with a compound.

Steve

RE: DAS Dalaa ---- I just bought my third ever "new" bow
 

Field tested on animals? That's what Dr. Ashby has done for us. He got tip curling problem pretty muchworked out by modifying the tip(on game anyway). Grizzly's always ended up best in his tests. But like Chad mentioned, I also have a problem sharpening a snigle sided blade.

Man, you must have really had some serious power behind thoseheads to bend them so bad.;)Also, send the Magnus back, they'll replace them free.

Personally, I never had a problem with tips curling unless I hit a rock or something. But never on the North American game that I have hunted. Never hunted anything like African Buffalo though.On my upcoming Moose trip, I'm planning on using Stos two bladed with my Howard Hill Longbow (74#'s at 29").

RE: DAS Dalaa ---- I just bought my third ever "new" bow
 

Sorry that doesn't sit well with ya. Personal opinion, yours differs.

RE: DAS Dalaa ---- I just bought my third ever "new" bow
 

Maybe you could share some of the things you feel make a Das fall in the compound class?

Steve

RE: DAS Dalaa ---- I just bought my third ever "new" bow
 

SteveB, like I said before, my post was never aimed at you or meant to offend you, but traditional is different things for different people. I can't put hard rules behind it. But for me, traditional is a one piece bow, and materials of the bow and arrows to be not machined metal.For some folks its no backing, and others its a self bow,and arrows withbone nocks. You got to find your own way my man, I can't do it for you.A riser made out of T7 machined aluminum just doesn't count in my book.It does to you. So your a happy man. For me, if I was steathy, I would go ahead and shoot compound. His money, his bow.

RE: DAS Dalaa ---- I just bought my third ever "new" bow
 

The metal riser/wood grip, thepaint finish, and the inserts availablefor stabilizer, rest and sights are the onlysimularities i see...other than that its no more modern than anyone elses take down recurve....
just because it isnt a longbow doesnt mean its any less traditional...and if hethinks a sight pin will remedy his arrow placement problems theres nothing wrong with installing one

i thinkthere is nothing wrong with compound shooters...i dont understand the Compound vs. Traditional(Blood vs. Crips) Gangbanger mentality some poeple display...Get over it...We all share the same passion...and the only real difference between the compound guy and the trad guy is the equipment we choose to shoot...other that that itall still boils down to the moment of Truth.

RE: DAS Dalaa ---- I just bought my third ever "new" bow
 

Imagine that:D. I hope you will like your DAS.

I don't see anyone showing compound vs trad menality. Only you and steve. You got to find your own way, if you find it traditional, go for it. Whatever makes you sleep at night.

RE: DAS Dalaa ---- I just bought my third ever "new" bow
 

hes posting because hesloosing confidencewith his equipment....regardless of what equipment he chooses...he's trying to solve the issue....

Buster,
i think the best way to go, would be to go out and get a kill with your Longbow...be it a squirrel, Rabbit, Coyote....i do believe deer season is over for most bow shooters now.

my previous post wasnt aimed torwards you guys...but ive witnessed it and didnt want thisthread turned into something like that....

RE: DAS Dalaa ---- I just bought my third ever "new" bow
 

Well good, hope you get that worked out.

RE: DAS Dalaa ---- I just bought my third ever "new" bow
 

A compound is easy to shoot, powerful, very accurate ........ its got many great benefits. I like traditional shooting, I HATE to wound/lose animals .......... there is a huge conflict in me right now to be sure.

A metal risered bow vs a high tech blend of carbon/glass/resins/laminates ......... whats it matter ? If you want to compare a self bow to a manufactured one ....... that migght have a bit of validity, but instinctiive shooting, no let off ...... that pretty much sums up what trad archery is, regardless of what the bow is made of, right ?

No, all shot from my Adcock longbow. The Magnus bent worst of all, and yes, Magnus replaced them.

None animal tested, but many heads destroyed.

I've got until the end of February ....... but honestly I'm afraid to shoot at an animal at this point for fear of wounding it [:o] I'm not a poor, average, everyday run of the mill trad shooter, I CAN shoot fairly well. But I've lost more animals than I've killed, and thats got to stop. I swore if I lost another I'd go back to a compound ...... and went to KS and shot/wounded a nice buck this fall.

Now where do I go ? Some guys say " its just a deer " or " nothing goes to waste " well I don't buy into that.

I just don't.

One shot, one kill, and I aint getting it done. Why ? #1 I'm not able to put the arrows low ...... its almost like I don't know how to concentrate on a spot, but I swear I do when I shoot. That would explain gravitating my eyes up to the spine and thus shooting high.

A pin would help ....... but impossible I think for me to install because I shoot cross-dominant. I shoot instinctive, focus, draw, shoot, arrow goes where I want it to.

You DO NOT want to be a pop can or bright leaf or clump of grass when I'm stump shooting :D

Guys I don't mind this thread going whereever it wants to. I've shot $1500 bows, $50 bows, longbows, recurves, one piece, 2 piece, 3 piece, I've shot probably 100 different bows or more, some that would make you cry they were so gorgeous ..... metal risers, exotic woods, actionwoods ..... and it don't matter what its made out of, pick it up, focus, draw, focus, hit anchor, focus, focus, release ....... thats trad archery.

I had a Schafer Silvertip that shot lights out in my hand ....... I'm going to try and find another one of these, FF, 55# draw weight, 58" or 60" in length.

I do not hunt to kill animals. I don't. I hunt for the hunt itsself. The killing od an animal is icing on the cake. I admit ....... its tough this being mythird full season after shooting my nice KS buck that I haven't killed anything. Had I been shooting compoud I'd have a 150-160" 9 pointer on my wall, some nice Arkansas bucks etc. I don't regret NOT killing deer, I do regret shooting and wounding a buck, fatally or not, doesn't matter. As a hunter I have a responsibility to kill what I shoot, and I aint doing that.

I'm going to hunt some more behind my house, resident does and fawns, and see if I can kill one. I have a ground blind, 8 yard shot, that would do worlds to help my confidence. Or another wounded deer to crash it rock bottom [&o]

RE: DAS Dalaa ---- I just bought my third ever "new" bow
 

bigcountry - by that quote, Fred Bear, Paul Schafer and others were not traditional bowhunters huh ? Their bows of choice were 3 piece TD recurves ........ not traditional by your definition ?

RE: DAS Dalaa ---- I just bought my third ever "new" bow
 

Buster your opinion, in all my hunting and shooting, all tips will curl, and I have done it to Thunderheads myself. You pretty much answered your questions to equipment and why you got less than adequate penetration (A less than idea angle and shot ) or something to that exent. I am not goingot reply anymore to this. Good luck with your new bow, and I hope you get your confindence back up. Oh,I bet there are a few folks here that are bitting at the bit for you to say your longbow is up for sale.

RE: DAS Dalaa ---- I just bought my third ever "new" bow
 

Buster, you really really don't need my permission man. Its your money, buy what you want.

RE: DAS Dalaa ---- I just bought my third ever "new" bow
 

bigcountry - I didn't ask permisson at all, did I ? Bow was bought, and sent back yesterday, it didn't have the "fit" I was looking for.

I quoted what you defined as traditional archery - and Fred Bear doesn't qualify as a traditional archer using your definition.

Thats hard to understand, seeing as how he is arguable the most influential man in Traditional Bowhunting history.

RE: DAS Dalaa ---- I just bought my third ever "new" bow
 

Stealth, I have explained in detail, but you didn't understand and read. All I can do is define tradtional for myself. Its a very personal thing. If you define it one way, then have at it, its your time and money. I have to define it for myself and shoot for myself. Going on and on worrying how I define it, yes, you are seeking my approval. And it doesn't matter if I approve yours or Fred Bear's idea or not.

Your seeking advise on penetration. You have no problems with the machined riser and the feel of equipment you chose, all I was saying, if it was me, and I went that route, I would just as well shoot my compound, where you seem very confident.You don't like that notion, so I say dismiss it. No big deal

RE: DAS Dalaa ---- I just bought my third ever "new" bow
 

How do you guys like your Potatoes cooked....lets get a hot debate going...

its pan fried in a lil olive oil with onions,red bellpeppers, and some deer sausage topped off with some cheese and sour cream for me.

next time your longbow goes hunting....try to set a 12-16 yard shot up and see what happens....20 yards is good but everything has to be executed perfectly....on top of everything else being just right.....4-8 yards can make a bunch more difference than a little mor speed and KE...IMO