RE: DAS Dalaa ---- I just bought my third ever "new" bow
 

Two things keep me coming back to this thread. First, and most importantly to me, is I know without a shadow of a doubt the equipment was not the problem, and I don't want anyone that might not know any better to get that impression.

Second, I'm really curious to know what happened. Honestly, based on my own experience and stories of others, I think it boils down to operator error.

Judging arrow flight with our eyes is not reliable. Sure, you can usually see it if the arrow is putting on a gymnastic display on the way to the target, but real fine tuning has to be done with bare-shafting in a soft target and paper tuning. These will tell us things we can't see when the arrow is in flight.

Second, we know the shot wasn't perfect. Maybe it was a lot worse than suspected. I KNOW our eyes can fool us here, based on my own experience. When I shot my TN deer, he dropped within 30-35 yds. When he reared up and fell over, I would have about bet my right arm I saw my arrow (bright yellow from the nock to the base of the broadhead) sticking out of the deer's side. I have no idea what I saw (or thought I saw), but my arrow was stuck in the ground just past where the deer was standing. On a little pig I shot last FebI just knew my shot was way back(bright feathers, nock, and cap)--it was a little back, but the arrow came out tight behind the shoulder. It's happened other times as well, on different critters--I know my eyes aren't reliable when it happens in an instant, especially under pressure.

I can understand the concern and loss of confidence, and respect the decision (if made) to swap weapons after bad experiences, but the equipment is not at fault. That's the main point I want to press.

Chad

RE: DAS Dalaa ---- I just bought my third ever "new" bow
 

bigcountry

If I told you I defined this




as a cat ......... what would you say ?



you'd tell me its not a cat. I can believe its a cat if I want to ............ buts its never been a cat, and never will be a cat.


correct ?


I would ask you how that is, and you'd explain to me why cats are what they are, and that a dog has always been a dog from Benji to Old Yeller - those are dogs.

Fred Bear wasn't a traditional archer. Neither was anyone who shoots metal risers, 3 piece TD bows etc etc ? Thats crazy ......... like calling a puppy a cat :D


I understand the personal part of it ......... that might be the very reason I do go back to a compound and maybe whyI stick with traditional archery too. If I wanted to REALLY challenge myself, and thats any bowhunter who wants additional challenge, whittle your own osage stave and hunt primitve weaponry. Those guys are another breed of traditional bowhunter altogether !

RE: DAS Dalaa ---- I just bought my third ever "new" bow
 

Again, I am sorry it hurt your feelings so much. Buy what you want man, I ain't going to buy it for you.

If it makes you feel better, I am thinking of buying a zipper recurve.:D

RE: DAS Dalaa ---- I just bought my third ever "new" bow
 

I can relate. I shot a doe this year at 18 yards in Nov. I could have sworn I hit the lungs. I found her a few days later. Looks like I hit the back two ribs and right thru the diaphram and thru guts. And I did pentrate thru. But I could have sworn I went thru both lungs.

RE: DAS Dalaa ---- I just bought my third ever "new" bow
 

Chad - yessir, the shot was high. If I'd been shooting a compoud ? Dead deer, I gaurantee it. And the buck I shot high last year ? Dead deer too. Why ? The power of a compound drives the arrow and broadheads deeper. Theres no debating that.

I get, what, 28 FP of KE with my bow ? Thats not a lot - and while its plenty if the arrow striked low in the ribs, take the shot into the upper rib bones, or the shoulder and you're going to have major problems.

I know, I know ........ don't hit anywhere but the low ribs, right ? Its bowhunting, sometimes great shots go bad, you know that as well as I do. Fred Bear shot and missed a LOT, one of the greatest shooters of the day.

bigcountry

Zippers are nice from what I've heard ....... never shot one. The all bamboo ones I'd like to try.


It comes down to two things for me guys ....... I'm having trouble with my shots going high, and if/when they do, I don't have enough power to get full penetration.

What to do ?

I can work and try to get better shooting. That I can do ........ and I still might send an arrow high.

I can do more IMO ....... I can get a heavier weight recurve - a bow that'll generate more power, so IF I hit high again, the better the chance of more penetration.

What else can I do ? a pretty big difference between a 52# longbow and a 56# recurve, 525 gr arrows vs 600 grain arrows.

I'm looking to buy a Silvertip again .......... FF model, 58" would be fine, 56# ideal weight. I'll find one .......... and maybe it'll shoot as good as the last one I had.

Is it THE solution ? No ......... but I'm making changes to overcome/improve my bowhunting ......... its the best I can do

RE: DAS Dalaa ---- I just bought my third ever "new" bow
 

You're on the right track! I bet a 56# CX would blow through there! lol

If you go the compound route, why not go with an oneida barebow? I'd actually like to try that some day.

Joel

RE: DAS Dalaa ---- I just bought my third ever "new" bow
 

I'm not trying to imply that a heavier set-up, or a compound, won't give more penetration. I can't get past the fact that you should have had plenty with what you had though, if everything else was right. A deer isn't a tank. If an arrow shot from a 52# recurve will pass completely through a 650+# bear, including the off-side leg, deer ribs shouldn't be a problem--again, if everything else is right.

You can speculate that if you'd shot either of those deer in the exact same spot with a compound, they would have been dead. Obviously I wasn't there, but I can speculate you would have possibly still lost two deer. You are basing it on two shots, my opinion is developed from hundreds. Those deer were lost, so we'll never know exactly where the shots hit exactly. The ones I'm referring to are kills.

Back to the videos--watching the shots in slow motion, it's amazing how fast an animal can move sometimes--faster than an arrow shot from a compound, and certainly faster than an arrow shot from a longbow or recurve. I don't trust my eyes or anyone else's to know just where an arrow hit if the animal isn't recovered to confirm it. On that Double Bull video I think I referred to earlier, Brooks shot an antelope with his Adcock--the entry and exit wound was on the same side, one above the other.They had no idea how it happened until they watched the shot in slow motion. On at least one shot, it would have been a clean miss, but the animal moved and actually got in the flight path of the arrow, making it a perfect shot.

I'm not trying to cast any doubt on you or what you saw--not at all. Again, my point is to clarify that traditional bows are deadly and efficient hunting weapon.

Chad

RE: DAS Dalaa ---- I just bought my third ever "new" bow
 

LBR - with my 2005 buck, I shot high. No doubt about it, heck the deer was only 10-11 steps from the base of my tree. I waited and waited and was trying to put the arrow right behind the last rib, angled forward. I hit high, and the backbone. Not enough umopfhhhhhh from a 52# longbow to break the back of a 250# whitetail, not that shot anyway. A compound would likely have broken the back, or the heavy arrow from a 65# recurve.

This year ....... maybe the dee ducked ....... maybe my arrow was going to be right there where I wanted it to ? I'd like to think thats what happened ..... but regardless, this years arrow hit low enough on the backbone IMO to get high ribs and at least one lung. Maybe that blood wasn't a one lung hit, maybe it was just real clotty blood that looked like chunks of lung ? I dunno ........ hard to say looking back being as frustrated as I am.

I'm a good hunter, I can travel anywhere it seems and I've got this luck to being able to put up stands and getting close to deer. I'm extremely patient, I passed shots on bucks this year others would have slapped me for ! All that work, effort ........ and then to feel like I just didn't place the arrow low enough and even at that, my arrow not having enough pop to penetrate more than a few inches.

[:o]

RE: DAS Dalaa ---- I just bought my third ever "new" bow
 

Dear Buster:

After reading Dr. Ashby's report on penetration, I've made some changes in my arrow set up to test his theory. He found the same bow, same broadhead same shaft to shoot differently depending on how far forward the FOC on the arrow was. Evidently, the live full size animals he used showed very different penetrations with arrows with the FOC in excess of 20% instead of the 8-10 we normally use. The only difference for great penetration was extreme FOC.

I too think your other bows should have been way more than enough to drop the deer you cited. I'm wondering about arrow tuning specifically. 525 grains seems heavy enough but if the weight is too far aft in the shaft when it hits the target the arrow will paradox and much of the needed energy will be lost in the shafts bending. Heavy weight arrows by themselves seem to only be marginally better than light ones. But when the FOC is moved way up by adding much weight to the tip, the arrow seems to follow the blade through the animal instead of punching the broadhead through. Its the old trying to push a string analogy.

Good luck. I'm jealous of your Daala. If you don't like it, give me a call, I'm sure we can make a deal.

Gary

RE: DAS Dalaa ---- I just bought my third ever "new" bow
 

Gary - its already in the mail back to 3Rivers - call them and tell them you'd like it when it arrives ! Its the 62" one with 55# limbs ;)

I have not tried extreme FOC loading. I shoot carbons, and I can shoot with the feathers stripped off and they fly great. Fletch them and they're gorgoeus in flight.

I use a 125gr head because thats what I bare shaft with. I put a 3 grains per inch weight tube in them as well.