Low light visibilty stinks!
 

Tonight, I shot for quite a while towards dark to see what kind of low light visibility I have. Well, I didn't like what I see, or couldn't see. I shoot a fletcher tru-peep 3/16", and could not see through it well at all. It seems that the edges of the peep just blurred with everything else.

Is there anything I can try to help this? I was thinking of going to a little bigger peep, or going back to the no-peep.

What do you all think?

RE: Low light visibilty stinks!
 

get rid of the peep go to a kisser button i have shot for 38 years with just a kisser and i shoot as well or better than must people who use a peep same anchor same shot.having faith in your anchor well make you a better shot no reson to handicap yourself with a peep in low light.

you can use your pepper spray my 12 gauge with 3 inch slugs works fine

[Deleted]
 

[Deleted by Admins]

RE: Low light visibilty stinks!
 

Muzzyman88,

3/16" is plenty big for a peep for most anyone that has it right.Mine is a bit smaller than that and I can shoot mine in the dark,all I need is a light on the target.No lighted pins or anything.


1 trick is shooting with both eyes open.I find this to be very helpfull.The peep must be rotating all the way around ALL the time.The peep must also be the exact height for you.Try pulling the bow back with your eyes closed and get anchored as if you were getting ready to shoot,when you are ready,then open your eyes and the peep should be in perfect position without you needing to move your head any at all.If it isn't where it should be ,move it.If it isn't rotating enough then try moving a strand from the left side of the peep to the right side to make it rotate more and if it is rotating too much then move a strand to the right side to the left.This is for a right handed shooter.


If everything is absolute,then a bigger peep may be right for you.I know that people with glasses tend to need a bigger peep.At least some of the people I know do.

Just some things to try.I have never had a problem with not being able to see thru a peep.Maybe I am just lucky or the things that I mention above work.I really don't know but they are worth a try.

RE: Low light visibilty stinks!
 

Muzzyman, your post ties into something I read the other day. In the latest issue of 'Bowhunting World' there is a sidebar article about such and such hi-vis sight and the writer starts off by talking about how he couldn't get a shot off at a big buck that was standing broadside at 15 yards, just because he couldn't see his pins. What a shame. What a cryin' shame.

Every time I hear those 'the one that got away' stories, I simply can't believe people would allow themselves to become so addicted to an aiming aid that they would allow it to become such a handicap.

Low light visibility is the #1 reason I hunt without sights.

Darn near ANYBODY can make a good kill shot on a deer at 15 measly yards without using sights! It's a LOT easier to do with a compound than with a stickbow. Just practice! Stand in front of a 15 yard target, lean the bow over a little (cant the bow) to get those sights out of the way and shoot. As long as you have an anchor that puts the nock end of the arrow in line with your eye, it won't take long at all to get the correct sight picture. After that, back up to 20...25..30... Pretty soon, you just might find you don't need sights at all.

Regardless of that, work on getting to where you can hit the short shots without sights, out to 15 yards at the very least. If your all-time deer comes in at 15 yards and you can't see your pins, you'll have the tools to deal with the situation instead of having to sit there with a dumb look on your face while watching that deer walk away.

RE: Low light visibilty stinks!
 

Sadly I'm oneof those with just such a sob story only the buck was at 13 yards. And Arthur is right you can make that shot without a sight. After that experience I've practised that shot and it's very doable. Not only for the case of low light conditions but also should something happen to your sight while hunting, and also as a check on whether the pin has been bumped. No substitute for experience, is there Arthur? ;-)

RE: Low light visibilty stinks!
 

Jeeeez! When is it going to finally register that a peep sight for hunting purposes is an unnecessary, unreliable, and detrimental piece of crap? A peep sight was not designed for hunting purposes, and will never be completely suitable for all the conditions that will exist when hunting. It cannot.

With some accessories, the word "might" is a proper term when weighing the probability that something "might" go wrong in the field. When weighing the same probability against a peep sight, the terms "will" an "eventually" are appropriate terms.

I see bows equipped with peep sights that are so large in order to accommodate a large view hole, the strain and friction-wear on the string strands has to be incredible.

I especially like the ones that are tied in at three or four sides with string strands running through the shooter's field of view.

How about those peeps that are aligned by the surgical tubing that torque the string and make a resounding "slap," when the shot is made. I have to chuckle and shake my head when a shooter using such type of peep is concerned about other small noises his or her bow is making, but never considers the noise that piece of water hose makes.

Some shooters using peeps sights on short ATA bows are faced with an additional set of problems. Because of the short string and narrow valley, some are finding that there is not enough room from the nocking point to where they need to locate the peep for their anchor. Some are also having problems seeing a complete sight hole because of the extreme angle of the short string.

What amazes me the most, are the various methods used to attempt to tie peeps in so that the peep sight will not slip. They will slip; but when they do the common cause most shooters choose to blame is string stretch. You can tie them in, you can glue them in, you can clamp them in with string nocks, or you can do all of the above. The peep sight will eventually slip.

The law of physics assures the sight will slip. Think about it. The sight is sitting inside of vertical strands of string, strands that are spread apart against an opposing and huge force while static. In other words, the string is always trying to close where you have installed the peep sight. Now you pull the string back. In accordance with draw weight, draw length, string length, etc, the increased and concentrated pressure of the string now trying to close at the area where the strands are spread, increases.

How do you keep the peep from slipping up or down? Well, of course, you apply additional pressure at the point where the strands are spread and already stressed, by clamping or binding the string as close to the peep as you can get; in an attempt to lock a horizontal wrap or clamp, around a smooth and vertical surface. Now the spread strands are opposing the force of the clamp or wrapped string. Under all the forces that are being exerted in a concentrated area, something has to eventually give.

If you tightly (cannot tie loosely) anchor the peep sight using a serving string, especially if you are using "Fast Flight" or a "Spectra" type serving string, I will tell you what can possibly fail; it will be your bow string. When you tightly wrap a strong string i.e., nylon, Fast Flight, Spectra, etc, around strands that are exerting incredible pressure outward and against the tightly wrapped string, there has to be a cutting and/or sawing force occurring at the intersection where the outward force of the strands of the bow string meet the edge of the wrapped string. The larger the peep sight, the greater the pressure being exerted,

If I can cut through a rigid plastic pipe used for underground purposes with 3-1/2 strand nylon serving or "Fast Flight" serving, what chance do the strands of your bowstring have?

So far, does not mean never!



Edited by - c903 on 09/05/2002 17:11:28

RE: Low light visibilty stinks!
 

Wow c903, those are some serious problems I wish I was never made aware of (that could worry me to death<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>). Pretty scary if you ask me. Glad I don't have those kind of problems. I use a super peep on my target setup and I don't have one of the many problems that you mentioned (so far<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>).

Muzzy, Muzzy, Muzzy. Did you let someone talk you out of using the nopeep? You did, didn't you? What was thier reasoning? They don't use one so they obviously suck?

Can you tell I think you might want to try going back to the nopeep?

Arthur (as usual) is giving you some great info here (and Buckfevr's points are good ones too). Try it though; practice. I wouldn't be confident with that from 20 ft up at a 15 yard deer though. Maybe with some serious practice, but there too many variables at the moment of truth. It's all about confidence in your abilities (and proven time after time) and he's been at this forever. At my stage of the game, I'm very, very confident with pins and nopeep alignment and that's what I want when it's life and death.

Good luck!

-Chief

RE: Low light visibilty stinks!
 

Chief :)

Oh no! Not a &quot;No Peep&quot; thread again! Hopefully, Muzzy88 put the bubble glass back in his carpentry level where it belongs. :)

RE: Low light visibilty stinks!
 

When the fiber optic pins shutdown from the lack of light or you can't make the pins out well, its too late to be hunting anyway!!!! Past legal shooting time in most states!!!!!

Aim Hard!

RE: Low light visibilty stinks!
 

Unless you're in deep woods on a dark and cloudy day...<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

[Deleted]
 

[Deleted by Admins]

RE: Low light visibilty stinks!
 

Ill have to agree with FLHunter. Low light in thick woods or cloudy days don't make the peep fuzzy, but unless you're shining a light on your target, nobody that I know of shoots &quot;good&quot; with a bow after it gets dark, just maybe gets lucky one in a while.

Once it's too late to make the deer out at 15 yards, it's too late to be hunting. Sitting in a stand after that can get you trapped there if you stay too long. Deer can, and sometimes do, come into your woods and start feeding and the only alternative to waiting them out to leave is to spook them out, and they can see you after it gets dark.

Just my opinion...

GB

Smack 'em where it hurts!

RE: Low light visibilty stinks!
 

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Get real, The peep sight is one of the best things that has happened to archery(Go to a IBO tournament and look at how many shoot without a peep)<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

Jim, I'm sure that at these tournaments, they are not testing your ability to shoot in very low light at a form that blends into it's environment very well, however, hunting deer will often test that ability.

Get into a heavy-timber treestand, and about 5 minutes before the end of legal shooting time, on a dark overcast day, and see how much of a deer you can see through a peep when the deer is only 5 yards away. I've had this happen and although I was sure my pin was on the deer, I had no idea what part of the deer. I moved my eye from the peep and I could see it's silhouette and the sight pin easily, but could not shoot that way with the peep attached. The peep may be a great aid for target shooting, but it's anything but ideal for many hunting situations.

Just my opinion,

RE: Low light visibilty stinks!
 

I am going against the grain here but I have to &quot;AGREE&quot; with everyone else on this one. The peep sight just has it's limitaions when it comes to hunting.

Protect your hunting rights, &quot;Spay or neuter a liberal.&quot;

RE: Low light visibilty stinks!
 

LOOSE THE PEEP.. ANSWER IS VERY SIMPLE....RED DOT SCOPE!!!
BOTH EYES ARE OPEN, ANYTHING YOU CAN SEE YOU CAN SHOOT WITH EVERY BIT AS MUCH ACCURACY AS ANY PEEP AND SIGHT ARRANGEMENT.

There have been many posts on this subject, but the search feature of this site no longer seems to allow searchs for threads more than 30 days old. Maybe I just haven't found out how to do it, but the bottom line is the same....RED DOT or AMBER DOT 1X SCOPE.<font face='Comic Sans MS'></font id='Comic Sans MS'><font size=5></font id=size5><font color=red></font id=red>

RE: Low light visibilty stinks!
 

Muzzy

Randy Ulmer uses the same peep as you (and myself) , the 3/16 fletcher and he drills them out to 1/4&quot; for hunting. Of course , now they make the fletcher in 1/4&quot; starting this year. Try it , what have you got to loose?

What sight are you using?

&quot;Nocked,cocked & ready to rock&quot;

RE: Low light visibilty stinks!
 

JDoyle

You're missing the point.

By what you have said, apparently you are ready and willing to state that the string peep sight is the only system that can possibly, and consistently, set and align a shooter's anchor and align eye to pin in order to be consistently accurate..

Yes, many shooters do use peeps when shooting tournaments. Many do not. I have a friend that is a deadly shot and high scorer, both, tournament and hunting. He does not use a peep sight.

Regardless, shooting under tournament conditions is a different ball of wax.

In the end, choice is is always a personal right. But choice is best when based on varied information, negative and positive.

RE: Low light visibilty stinks!
 

If I can shoot a target at night with a light on the target,I can shoot a deer at dawn.The light is on the target and isn't any more than a flashlight.They are not much at 20-30 yards and you are still in complete darkness,the light is for the target and not on the bow.I don't like hunting up untill dark because of tracking and other variables,but will do it if situation merits it.

Seems to me that the last coon shoot that I shot was 15 targets and I shot a 148 out of a possible 150.I think that is pretty good.The one before that I won but don't remember the exact score but I didn't drop many.I think that I would have to be crazy to take my peep off because someone says you can't see thru them or get them to stay in place.


Open your eyes and you can see deer in low light or in bright light.It doesn't matter if it is 5 yards or 35 yards.


Why do people think that there aren't low light shots in 3-d.All the ones I go to are in the woods and start early in the morning.I shoot rain or shine and have shot in all conditions at the ranges I go to.


Accuracy can be achieved without a peep but you CAN NOT ahieve as much accuracy without a peep as you can with one,given practice and proper form and instalation.There isn't a single pro that I know of that shoots without one.I do know a pro that tried a no peep for competition but that was short lived.

RE: Low light visibilty stinks!
 

I shoot both eyes open with a 3/16&quot; peep, and have never had a problem with low light. I can see well enough to get a shot, while there's still actually shooting light. I agree with FL also, anything beyond that, it's either too dark, or past time anyhow.

Now when I used to shoot with one eye closed, yes...shooting light rapidly disappears, even with a big peep, long before you could actually still take a shot.

RE: Low light visibilty stinks!
 

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
If I can shoot a target at night with a light on the target,I can shoot a deer at dawn.The light is on the target and isn't any more than a flashlight.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

TFox,

I detect a difference between the two. If my deer had a light shinning on them, I'm sure I could use a peep in complete darkness, however they are never lit up while hunting.

It must be that some people have better eyes than others and can use the peep under darker conditions. Myself, I wouldn't use one even if I could see okay through them in low light. I don't like the fact that the peep-body blocks out much of the animal when you're aiming. It makes it difficult for me to center on the kill zone quickly. For me, a peep is a disadvantage in some hunting situations.

I certainly would not try to talk anyone out of using a peep, if they're happy with it, but when someone is not completely happy with one or considering alternatives, I'd like them to know that there are other options that many feel are better for hunting situations. There are advantages when not using a peep and everyone should weigh those against any disadvantages they perceive.

RE: Low light visibilty stinks!
 

Well there are two defined schools of thought on the subject(apparently). Those that think you shouldn't be trying to hunt the last 10 minutes of legal hours and those that hunt without a peep sight. Now I would agree that for most people if you are shooting 3D then you will probably be more accurate with the peep. However, the difference in accuracy for someone with solid anchor points will be almost unmeasurable. When I took my peep off 2 weeks ago(from shooting 3D) I went from a baseball size group at 30 yards to a baseball size group at 30 yards. I am not saying they improved but they didn't get any worse either.

Protect your hunting rights, &quot;Spay or neuter a liberal.&quot;

Edited by - silentassassin on 09/06/2002 07:41:07

RE: Low light visibilty stinks!
 

TFOX

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Accuracy can be achieved without a peep but you CAN NOT achieve as much accuracy without a peep as you can with one<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

How did you ever arrive at such a false belief? What is your understanding of the purpose of a string peep sight, and what is its capability regarding pin alignment with the peep sight?

It is apparent that you are a shooter. However, I will provide you a hint as to what the true function of a peep is and what it is not, and, therefore, what it cannot do.

A peep sight is nothing more than a piece of plastic or metal that has a small hole in the center. There are no crosshairs, there is no aiming dot, there is no rear sight-blade, -fixed or adjustable, there is no rear bead; and the sight pin stands alone in open space.

If you know the answer, then please explain how a shooter cannot shoot as accurate without a string peep?

RE: Low light visibilty stinks!
 

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> Darn near ANYBODY can make a good kill shot on a deer at 15 measly yards without using sights! It's a LOT easier to do with a compound than with a stickbow<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

Arthur, could you please explain your statement. Why would a 15 yard shot be a lot easier with a compound without sights then a stickbow?

Also, do you shoot off the shelf with your compound. Just wondering how you cant the compound.

Edited by - BobCo19-65 on 09/06/2002 09:34:16

RE: Low light visibilty stinks!
 

C903

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Oh no! Not a &quot;No Peep&quot; thread again! Hopefully, Muzzy88 put the bubble glass back in his carpentry level where it belongs.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

Can you please tell me why you say this about the no peep? I recently swithced to a no peep and find it a great piece of equipment.

I see that you are very opinionated and believe everyone should be shooting without a peep. Your statement that a peep sight is a detrimental piece of crap is BS. If a peep sight makes an archer a better shot and gives him confidence he by all means should be using it. In 15 years of bowhunting I missed 1 opportunity due to low light conditions caused by a peep sight. But in that same 15 years that peep sight allowed me to take 17 deer.

You are probably the same type of guy that believes everyone should be shooting your brand of bow and that all others are crap.

RE: Low light visibilty stinks!
 

Last night I was wondering about low light conditions and how my rig would shoot with my new no-peep on it. I was impressed with the amount of light that the no-peep collected around dusk. AND I'm shooting very accurately with my no-peep probably even moreso than with my peep on.

RE: Low light visibilty stinks!
 

Barile

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Can you please tell me why you say this about the no peep? I recently switched to a no peep and find it a great piece of equipment.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

I am happy for you! However, why did you dump your string peep if it always served you well?

No! I am not saying everyone should shoot without a string peep because I say so. I am saying that, IMO, it is a piece of unreliable crap, and that anyone who believes a string peep is absolutely necessary to be consistently accurate, is way out in left field.

What if a peep sight had never been invented? Would superb accuracy have been unobtainable?

My emphasis is actually directed at those new shooters who are often misled by inaccurate comments and uncecessary trends.

As for the &quot;No Peep,&quot; it is not money wasted. You can always use it to level your washing machine. :)

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>You are probably the same type of guy that believes everyone should be shooting your brand of bow and that all others are crap.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

No way! How would the toy bow and bow gadgetry manufacturers stay in business?







Edited by - c903 on 09/06/2002 13:06:30

RE: Low light visibilty stinks!
 

BobCo, the explanation is simple. LETOFF. You aren't under the strain of holding peak weight at full draw and that allows you the time to settle in and get everything aligned just right before dumping the string.

No, I don't shoot off the shelf. I use a flipper rest in the standard position. It is quicker to learn to shoot a canted bow off the shelf, since it's closer to your hand and natural pointing ability, but it's not at all difficult to shoot off an elevated rest. Concentrate on getting the nock of the arrow directly under your eye and align the tip with the target. Eventually, your hand/eye coordination will make the adjustment and you don't have to think about it.

RE: Low light visibilty stinks!
 

OK, I understand your reasoning now.

Actually, I shoot my recurve off an elevated rest. Longbow off the shelf. But, I shoot my compound off a prong type drop away rest. No canting allowed.

Edited by - BobCo19-65 on 09/06/2002 13:33:44

RE: Low light visibilty stinks!
 

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>As for the &quot;No Peep,&quot; it is not money wasted. You can always use it to level your washing machine.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

LOL! Actually, I can't use mine to level anything, because I have one of the newer models that doesn't come with a level. :)

About 4 weeks ago, I stripped a screw in my no peep when I took it off and put it on a new bow. I ended up selling the new bow and couldn't put it back on the old bow, until I got the no-peep's screw replaced. My groups remained pretty much the same - about 1&quot; per 10 yards, when things are going good.

I think the no-peep trained me to more consistantly anchor and grip the bow, since my groups are slightly smaller than they were before I used a peep or a no-peep. Now, I only occasionally glance at it to be sure I'm still on, but for the most part I don't look at it when taking a shot. I think it served a purpose as a training device, but I'm confident that I would shoot just as well without it. Since it only weighs a couple ounces and doesn't interfer with the shot in any way, I'll leave it on the bow, just for the occasional check.

RE: Low light visibilty stinks!
 

C903...

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>My emphasis is actually directed at those new shooters who are often misled by inaccurate comments and uncecessary trends.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

Exactly the position I'm in with my viewpoint on very light arrows and excess speed. Inaccurate statements and unnecessary trends. Newbies shouldn't be force fed speed before they've had a chance to learn to shoot, before they've had a chance to hone their shooting form so they can control that speed.

Likewise, I think sights and peeps are great training aids, but not something I care to get addicted to. Especially to the point where I'm totally helpless and have to end a hunt when a sight breaks or when I can't see the pins during legal shooting hours.

Most of the accessory equipment on the market now restricts you to a rigid shooting form in order for it to operate correctly. Like BobCo pointed out with his rest, he MUST hold the bow perpendicular in order for it to function. That's the beauty of keeping things simple and assuming more personal responsibility for accuracy instead of relying on gadgetry. With my flipper rest and no sights, I can shoot my bow perpendicular or I can cant the thing nearly 90 degrees if I need to and still get an accurate shot off.

Should everyone hunt with my shooting style? Of course!<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> But I don't expect them to.

Not everyone has been at it as long as I have nor does just everyone have the 'want to' to develop a variety of skills like I have. Not everyone has the basic hand/eye coordination shooting barebow requires. Same thing applies to peeps. Through no fault of their own, not just everyone is able to establish an anchor that is consistent enough to allow them to break away from using peeps or optical alignment devices.

Every single person's setup is as individual as they are. And that's as it should be, IMO. However, I do feel that people shouldn't allow themselves to get in a rut and they should at least experiment with different equipment and shooting styles. Might accidently find something that works better for them or that they simply get more enjoyment from.

RE: Low light visibilty stinks!
 

Some interesting points/debates here...

I'll just add that I started shooting when I was 5. Shot longbow and recurve until the late 80's, then picked up a compound. Shot the first 3 compounds I owned without sites and did just fine.

However, with my last bow I switched to a full-fledged modern state-of-the-art bow. Fiber optic sights, shurza-peep, prong-rest and release.

One thing I will say about the new gadgets. Although my accuracy has not increased, my precision has. Not precision between groups, but precision from day to day, month to month. The sites, including the peep, at least for me direct my focus and force me to concentrate. Without sites, I know shooting &quot;through the window&quot; that a lack of concentration ALWAYS resulted in a bad shot. The lack of concentration with sites is evident before you release---hence you can hold the bow back a little longer and refocus.

But I still pick up the stickbow occasionally and fling some off the shelf, just for the fun of it...<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

RE: Low light visibilty stinks!
 

Arthur P

X'clent post!

RE: Low light visibilty stinks!
 

C903


The peep is another anchor along as a centering device.It is used to create a fulcrum aim point such as the rear sight on a rifle.They become much more usefull when shooting up hill and downhill.They help maintain the correct sight paralex by keeping everything in line.If used properly then they will tell you right away if your form is slacking,it should come to your eye and you shouldn't move to it.


It is obvious that my idea of accuracy and yours are different.Hunting accuracy is ok but I'm talking much closer than 4&quot; groups at 30 yards,or even 40 yards for that matter.I will bet that Jeff Hopkins or Dave Cousins would have problems consistantly shooting 12 rings or bullseyes at 40 yards without a peep.Now,many will say that kind of accuracy isn't neccesary to hunt but the confidence that comes with knowing you can put an arrow in the right spot,no matter what kind of distance you are talking is very important.


straightarrow,take a flashlight in your backyard and aim at a 3-d target with it in complete darkness at 30 yards and then tell me if the situation of an early morning deer isn't very similar.

You are correct that some people havn,t got the eye sight ,as I mentioned in my first post on this subject.This would be an even stronger argument to shoot with both eyes open and then the situation might be different.

RE: Low light visibilty stinks!
 

Question fellas,

I've been bowhunting for, well, since compounds became legal in Ga. I have a set up that's I'm comfortable and am very confident with it so I ain't too interested it changing my setup from peep to nothing on my string. I don't look at enough of the gear reviews and from reading all of the posts on this topic now I am wondering what the heck is a &quot;no-peep&quot;. Does anyone have a link to a website that I can view this thing on?

Thanks,

GB

Smack 'em where it hurts!

RE: Low light visibilty stinks!
 

GA
here is the link.
http://www.timberline-archery.com/np.asp

RE: Low light visibilty stinks!
 

Thanks Ausie-guy. After a quick look at this product, I might see if my local archery shop carries this type of peep. I, too, see the 'haze' off of a peepsight in the string in low light situations but have never considered shooting without a &quot;back&quot; sight. If I could install one of these no-peeps at the shop just to try it out, then I might just be interested in giving it a try. I did say I was satisfied with my setup, but if there's something new and I can prove to myself that it is at least as good as a string peep, just better <img src=icon_smile_approve.gif border=0 align=middle>, then I am willing for a change. Thanks for a great lead on this new product.

Who said an old dog cannot learn new tricks!?!<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

GB

Smack 'em where it hurts!

RE: Low light visibilty stinks!
 

TFOX is 100% right about the peep sight. I use a target peep (less than 1/8&quot;) and shoot in my backyard after work (2nd shifter...I'm often shooting after midnight)
A peep is most likely the most accurate way to shoot a bow cost effectively (red dot might work as well....but pricey compared to a peep and pins). Again, that's why target shooters use them as well as hunters.
They are NOT unreliable peices of crap. If you know how to set up your bow, you don't need rubber tubing or anything else on your peep.
A simple drop of white out on your string will tell you IF your peep is slipping. IF they move at all, it is VERY slight and takes a LONG time (if done right). IF it moves, just move it back!
Open BOTH eyes when shooting!!! It helps you focus (ask your eye doctor) and lets you see the target with one eye unobstructed by pins or peeps or anything else. Your dominant eye should be looking at the pin through the peep. You brain will mix the 2 images and show a nice pin on the target.
Can't see your pins through the peep? If you have fiber optic pins and you can't see them...it's probably too late to shoot anyway. IF not...and it's legal, get a pin light, or a tritium pin.
Peeps WORK. Too many out there to debate that.
No-peeps work, but they don't seem to have the absolute accuracy of a peep (haven't seem many of them at Vegas yet...least not in the winners hands).
Set it up right, and it WILL work for you, and will NOT let you down. Set up is the key.

RE: Low light visibilty stinks!
 

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Set it up right, and it WILL work for you, and will NOT let you down. set up is the key.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

Stealthforce,

Your statement is too broad. They don't work for everyone in every hunting situation. I have set up 3 different peeps, including a C-peep. They were all adjusted properly and had not moved. They all prevented me from shooting a deer in low light that I could have gotten without the peep. Two of these deer were within 5 yards and I couldn't tell if the pin was centered in the peep, much less exactly where on the deer it was. Admittedly, my eyesight is not the best, but I know there are many hunters with eyesight much worse than mine. I personally know at least a dozen hunters who ripped the peep off their bow, not because it had turned or moved, but because they missed a deer they couldn't see through it. We're not all delusional. It simply doesn't work for eveyone in every situation.

I hunt off and on with a group of about a dozen hard-core hunters that hunt virtually every day of bow season. All of these guys have more than 20 bows kills, a few with more than 50 and one with over 80. Not one of these guys uses a peep, although everyone has tried one at one point. Even if every one of these guys used a peep, I still wouldn't, but the fact that none of them like them, would be proof enough for me that they have let people down who have had them set up properly. The fact that I'm one of them who missed opportunities because of one, completely solidifies my opinion of them.

I'm not going to say they won't work for some in every situation, even though it's hard for me to believe. I will trust that it can. On the other hand, you should trust that it doesn't work in every situation for some who have them set up properly.

RE: Low light visibilty stinks!
 

The reason I totally discarded the idea of peep-n-pins for hunting... About 15 years ago, broke down and took my compound hunting instead of my longbow. I was hunting rabbits on a bright, sunny day. Painted brass pins (dayglo orange), 3/16 hole in the peep. Saw a rabbit under a cedar bush in dark shade. Drew, centered the pin in the peep, rabbit disappeared. Looked around the string... Yep rabbit is still there. Moved back behind the peep, rabbit disappeared. Knew the rabbit had to be 'right there' and shot anyway. Rabbit was gone, hair and blood all over the arrow. Never found the rabbit and never had sights on a hunting bow since.

No such thing as a no-peep or fiber optics in those days. Fiber optics I like, but the no peep is something I wouldn't use.

Cost/benefit analysis:

No peep.... $40. Peep sight... $4. No sights... Free.

No peep... Easier to shoot in low light. Peep... Limits low light visibility. No sights... Legal hunting hours is your only limitation

No peep... Pretty darned accurate. Peep... Very best raw accuracy. No sights... Depends on how much you work at it.

No peep... Indicates bow torque. Peep... will let you twist hell out of a riser. Barebow... You're on your own.

Well, I could go on but you get the idea. Two large benefits for the no peep, and I'm sure many folks find those benefits worth the extra $36. Glad it works for you. I won't buy it.

I've bought two sets of sights in the past year. Played with 'em, tossed 'em in the box. Problem is, I beat myself up and stress out when I miss the X ring shooting sights. I've got enough stress in my life without my equipment adding to it!!

Shooting without sights is much more relaxing and enjoyable for me, and most everyone does their best shooting when they're relaxed and enjoying themselves. Shooting a bow when you're stressing out becomes a chore, something to be avoided. Enjoying your shooting will get you shooting more, and shooting more will eventually equal shooting better.

I'm pretty darn good at barebow, if I do say so myself, on a par with the above average pin shooter. The best pin shooters whup up on me on the 3D range and the open class boys are way out in the distance, but I've caused more than a couple dropped jaws. I love that part of it just as much as the shooting.<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

But, however and whatever you decide to shoot, let your <font color=teal>enjoyment</font id=teal> dictate your equipment instead of unrealistic expectations or basing your choices on what everyone else is using.

Too many people stressing over paper tears, speed, noise, speed, penetration, speed... all kinds of superfluous BS. Anyone just go shooting to have FUN anymore?

Edited by - Arthur P on 09/07/2002 08:26:47