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Merlin Bows...Don't overlook them!
I've noticed, only a few guys that post on HuntingBBS message boards shoot Merlin Bows.
At least, not in comparison to other boards. I have only shot them for the past 3 months. First the Max2000 and now my Super Nova. As all of you know, I am a big fan of the Bowman bows. And still am. I always resisted buying a Merlin but have admired them for several years. I have enjoyed friendly arguments in the past with Pinwheel 12 about who shot the better bow. I finally decided to order a Super Nova target bow back in early March. But it kept getting set back for one reason or another. One day, Pinwheel emailed me and said he had an extra Max2000 in my draw length and asked if I was intersted. At first, I said no but then I started thinking... Heck, I can order that Max and not have to wait 3 or 4 weeks for it to arrive like I normally would if placing an order. I decided to order the bow sight unseen just from the way Pinwheel talks and brags on them. It has been an outstanding bow from the moment I first shot it. Everyone who has looked at it and held it has been impressed. They can't get over how well made it is and how well the grip fits their hand. Most everyone has stated it's the best feeling, best made, and prettiest bow they have ever seen. It's an extremely easy bow to tune and shoot and is dead accurate. Last month my Super Nova finally arrived. When I pulled it from the box all I could think is...WOW! Imo, it's the most beautiful compound bow ever made anywhere. It has a silver finish that looks like polished chrome. It glows in sunlight. The finish on the gold limb pockets is outstanding too. The geometry of the riser with its lines and curves make it look like a high priced sports car compared to other bows. Most other bows pale in comparison. The limb pockets are just as outstanding as the riser. They are pivoting style, locking, with vibration absorbing material placed between them and the limbs to reduce shock and vibration when shooting the bow. The limbs are the new Profusion carbon, like found on the Max2000. They perform beautifully and recover very quick on the shot and are a very handsome recurve style limb to boot. I can't say they're the best limbs made just yet because they're so new and haven't been time tested. But it wouldn't surprise me if they turn out to be the best. I took my Super Nova to the local Pro Shop last week. All the Mathews die-hards raved over the bow when I uncased it. I let several guys hold it. All of them said it had the best feeling grip and was the most beautiful bow they had seen. It was just like the Max review all over again. An employee at the shop, who shoots nothing but Mathews, said it was beautiful and exotic looking. Another guy said it looked too pretty to shoot. I was flattered by their comments. Their comments, along with Pinwheel 12's reply on the Accu-Riser post are the main reason I decided to post this topic. I know, most guys here on BBS like Bowtech, Mathews, and Hoyt bows best. Nothing against those bows at all. I still have my Hoyt Superstar and have thought about buying a Bowtech and Mathews before. But you may be missing an opportunity to own the overall best crafted, best shooting, and best looking bow you've ever owned by overlooking a Merlin. Some guys argue they're made in England and you're taking jobs away from Americans. When was the last time you bought an appliance made in USA or a car with all the parts made in USA ? Heck, every last piece of chrome on a Harley Davidson is made in Taiwan! Others say, it's too far away to get warranty service. I've noticed, reading other people's reports, Merlin seems to be faster than Hoyt or Mathews getting bows repaired for customers. The only valid complaint I've heard is not being able to shoot one before you buy. I can buy that one but, I bet, if you did get to shoot one. You would say it had the best feeling grip best balance, and best craftsmanship of any bow you have ever seen anywhere. ...And the best looking! I'm very confident in saying that because for the last three months everyone that has handled my Max2000 and now, my Super Nova has said the grip and feel of the bow are outstanding. Only one guy has stated otherwise. But he didn't dislike the grip. He said, he would have to get used to it. This is around 75 shooters I'm talking here. No, not a great number but a pretty good indication, imo. With Merlin, you don't have to worry about buying an expensive Shrewd, Loesch, or other custom grip to replace the one that doesn't feel right like the grips on most other bows. Merlin's grips already feel outstanding and are superior to the custom grips anyway. I feel, buying a Merlin bow sight unseen will not be a problem for 95% of the guys out there who choose to do so. So, if you're looking for a new bow, you really owe it to yourself to check out the Merlins. You won't regret it! I can see a few more in my future. Pinwheel 12 offers outstanding service with Merlin bows. I wouldn't consider ordering a Merlin from anyone else. It took him a couple of years to convince me to try a Merlin. I'm glad, I finally took his advice and decided to get one. Now two. He was right about them. They are outstanding! Sag. http://www.merlin-bows.co.uk http://www.pinwheelproducts.com Edited by - Sagittarius on 08/31/2002 16:41:39 |
RE: Merlin Bows...Don't overlook them!
Sag-
Great job! Looks like I'll have to put you on the payroll! <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> Seriously, I never thought I'd get you away from the Bowmans, but am now very pleased that I took the extra time and effort to try and do so. Thanks for the nice words spoken for myself and Pinwheel Products, the Merlins of course I had no doubt as to what you'd be saying once you saw and shot them, the same as myself and many others have found out! <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> Good shooting, Pinwheel 12 |
RE: Merlin Bows...Don't overlook them!
I'm glad your 100% happy with your choice of bow!!
But , I'll never buy another bow without trying it out first. And IMO the Merlin doesn't have anything superior over our top of the line american bows , so I'll continue to bolster the american archery industry. Just my patriotic feelings!  "Nocked,cocked & ready to rock" |
RE: Merlin Bows...Don't overlook them!
I've bought two bows this year, without trying them. I sold two bows this year that I only owned one week. One bow was a very highly recommended model from a well know company. The other was a middle of the line bow from a big company. Never again. What one person thinks is gold, another is likely to be less than impressed with. I've learned my lesson.
Maybe some day I'll get the opportunity to shoot a Merlin and I might agree with the assessment given, but I won't be owning one before the first time I shoot it. Sorry to contradict what you have said, but I think it's very wise to shoot before you buy. |
RE: Merlin Bows...Don't overlook them!
After hearing the great things about Merlin, I too wish there was a dealer a little closer. I am a firm believer in shooting a bow first and I believe in supporting my local pro-shop. Hopefully Merlin will concentrate on the American market a little more in the near future. They obviously have a lot to offer the American hunter.
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RE: Merlin Bows...Don't overlook them!
Bowfanatic
Its a shame when anyone starts out a post with the words "I'll never" because that is indicative of a lack of willingness to try something that could very well improve your shooting. Negativity like that only says that you are stubborn to possibly doing a little research and finding out that what Sag is saying is infact the case. I've owned top of the line Hoyts and Mathews and they are fine shooting bows, but I will second Sag in that the Max 2000 is the most impressive bow I have ever shot and owned. I was nervous as hell about buying the bow sight unseen but when enough qualified proven target shooters swear by a bow and a bow company there is no need to second guess. "I'll never" type of people will "never" reach there potential. Try to have an open mind and have a little trust when enough top target archers say something is a no brainer, and the Max2000 for an all around bow and the Supernova for spots are "no brainers" Tom |
RE: Merlin Bows...Don't overlook them!
Pinwheel
I am in the process of talking my wife into letting me get a 3d bow and am interested in the Merlin line but not sure of which one. What would you reckomend?? Email me if you like my email is in my profile.  |
RE: Merlin Bows...Don't overlook them!
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Bowfanatic Its a shame when anyone starts out a post with the words "I'll never" because that is indicative of a lack of willingness to try something that could very well improve your shooting. Negativity like that only says that you are stubborn to possibly doing a little research and finding out that what Sag is saying is infact the case. I've owned top of the line Hoyts and Mathews and they are fine shooting bows, but I will second Sag in that the Max 2000 is the most impressive bow I have ever shot and owned. I was nervous as hell about buying the bow sight unseen but when enough qualified proven target shooters swear by a bow and a bow company there is no need to second guess. "I'll never" type of people will "never" reach there potential. Try to have an open mind and have a little trust when enough top target archers say something is a no brainer, and the Max2000 for an all around bow and the Supernova for spots are "no brainers" Tom <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote> Tom As you can see in my post , I said I'll never buy "another" bow without trying it out first. Another , meaning not again. I've made that mistake before and I learn from my first mistakes. As for a Merlin making me a better shot<img src=icon_smile_question.gif border=0 align=middle> You dont really believe that , do you? It is'nt the bow that makes a great archer! As for you owning top of the line Mathews and Hoyts , but you now believe your Merlin is superior , well , that sounds too familiar. Everyone with a new bow feels their new purchase is superior to everything else. Like I said before , it's just my patriotic feelings to spend my hard earned american cash on top quality american made archery products if for no other reason than , american made archery products are second to none! To each his own , if your shooting Merlin and your happy thats all that counts. |
RE: Merlin Bows...Don't overlook them!
Great post, Bowfanatic. It's good to hear the disagreements kept professional and clean.
I'm sure that the Merlins are fine bows, and Sagittarius did a great review. I personally wouldn't buy a bow without testing it first, but that's me. Glad it worked out for you, Sag, hope you all have a great season! Trebark Become one with nature...then grill it. |
RE: Merlin Bows...Don't overlook them!
Ausie-guy-
I think the Max 2000 makes a great "all-around" bow. It'll hunt, shoot spots, Fita, indoors, and yes, it has plenty of speed for 3D. You'll find that TOP shooters do NOT shoot radical setups and speeds in excess of 300 for 3D, they use forgiving and stable setups and work on their numbers. Gotta be able to hit what you're shooting at, and you can't do that CONSISTENTLY with the 34-36" ATA and 6 or 6.5" of brace that you need for 300+ speed. I've won an IBO World title myself (over a decade ago) and did it at 284fps with a 41" ATA bow with 7.25" of brace. HMM, the Max 2000 is 41.25" with 7.25" of brace. Coincidence? I use the Max for all applications, and it handles everything without a fuss and is super accurate, the most accurate bow of it's configuration I have ever put into my hands to date. (Yes, I use mine for 3D, shooting 3-28 ACC's at 60lbs, 29" AMO drawlength, right in the 290fps range) In fact most of us Factory Merlin shooters that shoot 3D's are using this model. Gene Witt just placed in the top 5 overall in Men's Semi-Pro in the IBO National Triple Crown using this bow, and won Bedford, the first leg, in BOTH 2001 and 2002. The Lite Storm is great if thinking about a solo, it has 305 speed, yet still offers 38" ATA and 7+" of brace. I've found this bow to be quite accurate also. Bowfanatic-- Don't fool yourself. I'm as patriotic as the next guy, but after shooting darned-near every bow made at one time or another, have to agree with Sag and Tom on this one. The Merlins have the tightest tolerances, greatest attention to detail, and are the best handling bows I have shot to date. Yes, of course SOME USA bows are top quality, but some are complete junk also, and as stated before, there are alot of "good" bows out there, but few "great" ones, ANYWHERE! Might as well broaden your horizons, right? If you feel what you are shooting is "great", that's fine by me and your opinion,(at least you're shooting something, that's what it's really all about) but to say that you "won't" because it's "not USA made" or that you cannot hold it first is like slapping all of us in the face who went out of our way already. We stepped up to the plate and basically stuck our necks out first, and after doing so and running the bows through their paces, now are trying to relay the message that they are worth it for others to buy sight unseen and are some of the finest-built bows on the planet. I don't know about others, but I will NOT steer someone away from what I believe to be the truth. If you don't want to believe us, especially those of us who HAVE shot every brand, HAVE won many titles and Championships over the years and HAVE been working in the industry for over 3 decades, then I guess that's your choice, but I'm not following this type of thinking, really. That's the problem with this world today, everyone is getting too independent. Kids don't listen to teachers or parents, people won't listen to those that have "been there and done that", they have to stick their foot in the same chuckhole to find out for themselves that it will give you a broken ankle! I learned from the great techs before me, and did it the HARD way, before computers with info at your fingertips, and altho you can gain lots of knowledge here, NOTHING beats hands-on experience over many, many years with hundreds of brands of equipment of all types. I'm telling you from this experience that the Merlins are in the top of their class and sit on the pinnacle with only a few. No BS. BTW, Most "BIG" USA manufacturers' bows are NOT on that pinnacle either, IMO, sorry. Good shooting, Pinwheel 12 Edited by - Pinwheel 12 on 09/01/2002 07:15:11 |
RE: Merlin Bows...Don't overlook them!
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> The Merlins have the tightest tolerances, greatest attention to detail, and are the best handling bows I have shot to date.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
Fine attributes I suppose, but completely unimportant to me as a hunter. As a hunter I demand a bow that will enable me to hit a 2" circle at 20 yards - so far every bow I've shot has qualified. I want a brace height around 8" and an ATA around 33-36" for my treestand huntings. I want the bow to be as quiet as it can get and I want a low hand shock. Most importantly I want it to feel good in my hands. Now you tell me how are you going to know a bow will feel good in my hands? Answer- you have no idea, you can only guess. Is your idea of quiet the same as mine? Who knows, I only know that I've disagreed with what many have said about particular bows. <BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>If you feel what you are shooting is "great", that's fine by me and your opinion,(at least you're shooting something, that's what it's really all about) but to say that you "won't" because it's "not USA made" or that you cannot hold it first is like slapping all of us in the face who went out of our way already.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote> How is wanting to buy American a slap in your face? How is wanting to shoot it first a slap in your face? The right feel on a hunting bow is a very personal thing. How can you possibly know if someone else will like it? Every target shooter in the world could prefer it and I wouldn't care. I'm a hunter and I look for different things in my bows, just like many others. <BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>I don't know about others, but I will NOT steer someone away from what I believe to be the truth.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote> I am the same, which is why I will stick by my original advise and recommend that a person should shoot before they buy unless they don't mind selling at a loss if they don't like it. <BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>If you don't want to believe us, especially those of us who HAVE shot every brand, HAVE won many titles and Championships over the years and HAVE been working in the industry for over 3 decades, then I guess that's your choice, but I'm not following this type of thinking, really.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote> Are you saying, a vast majority of those who have shot every brand and won many Championships are now singing the praises of Merlin? Are a majority of those working in the industry for over 3 decades, now shooting and promoting Merlins? I don't think so. <BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>That's the problem with this world today, everyone is getting too independent. Kids don't listen to teachers or parents, people won't listen to those that have "been there and done that", they have to stick their foot in the same chuckhole to find out for themselves that it will give you a broken ankle! I learned from the great techs before me, and did it the HARD way, before computers with info at your fingertips, and altho you can gain lots of knowledge here, NOTHING beats hands-on experience over many, many years with hundreds of brands of equipment of all types. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote> If I bought every bow that some expert thought was the best bow in the world, I'd own every brand of bow in the world. It really doesn't take an expert to figure out if they like a bow. All a person needs it to shoot it a bit.[/quote] |
RE: Merlin Bows...Don't overlook them!
PW12
I've been around the block a few times myself. My post was never intended to be a slap in your face for shooting Merlin. But , if you want to look at it that way , I'm sure , many others , along with myself , feel you just slapped all of the USA made bow shooters in the face with comments like "most big USA manufacturers' bows are NOT on that pinnacle either". I said it before , I 'll say it again , if your happy with what your shooting , thats all that counts! Good luck this season!! "Nocked,cocked & ready to rock" |
RE: Merlin Bows...Don't overlook them!
Thanks Pinwheel.
The max was the one that I was thinking about then came a long the super nova I am sure it was just to confuse me a little more<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> |
RE: Merlin Bows...Don't overlook them!
The original point for starting this topic was to showcase the Merlin bows and make others aware of their features and craftsmanship.
Yes, there are some fine bows made in America. I own a Hoyt Superstar, PSE Mach 8 and 10. A Red Man custom and Bowman custom. Bowtech, Mathews, CSS, Clearwater/Storm, and Martin among others also make good bows. But, imho, except for the Bowman, they are not quite on par with Merlin. Red Man falls a little short because of its finish but otherwise comes close because of its great tolerances and construction. The reason for my belief of Merlin superiority is... Merlin has better limbs, limb pockets, grips, riser geometry, and finish than any American bow from a large Manufacturer. Almost all USA bow use Gordon Plastics Limbs or their materials. Nothing wrong with Gordon. In fact, they have improved in recent years and are much better today than in the past. But they don't rate with Barnsdale or Merlin Profusion. Most limb pockets of US made bows are good to lousy. I would get blasted if I told you how lousy some are. PSE's pivoting full capture limb pockets are the best of any large USA manufactured bow. The Merlin pockets are an absolute work of art. They are beautifully made and beautiful to look at with great specs. I have handled almost all major manufactured bows over the past few years. No USA bow has a grip that comes close to the comfortable grip on the Merlin bows. Like I've already stated, all archers who have felt the grips on my Merlins have agreed with me on this but one. I feel, the Merlin bows balance better than 95% of their American counterparts. The Max2000 and Super Nova are pretty much classic Deflex and Reflex design to the eye. But the way the grip is slightly offset and overall geometry of the riser make for an extremely well balanced and shootable bow. Certainly the best balanced bows I have ever felt. The finish on Merlin's risers, limb pockets and cams is something to see. Merlin polishes their risers before anodizing them and it shows. The finish of the Merlin target bows look like the finish on a custom car. The hunting bows finish is the best looking I have seen also. Straightarrow, You mentioned, only being interested in a hunting bow that you can hit a circle with at 20yds. I agree, if that's all you care about, that's fine. But for anyone looking for a bow with the best feel, best finish, best tolerances, best balance, and the prettiest bow you will ever see... Check out a Merlin! The accuracy isn't bad either. You might be amazed by how well you shoot a Merlin! Sag. Edited by - Sagittarius on 09/02/2002 00:11:37 |
RE: Merlin Bows...Don't overlook them!
Straightarrow and Bowfanatic-
I truly believe after the many years I have been in this sport that I am a pretty good judge of equipment, and I can honestly say that only a few American bows can sit on the same hill as the Merlins, sorry. I personally don't care if a bow is made in italy, japan, switzerland or tibet, if it's a great item I'm going to shoot it and tell everyone it is great. I love America just as much as the next guy and probably more than alot of you, but much like comparing a Chevy to a Mercedes, sometimes we just to have to face the fact that sometimes other countries build a better product. I've shot them all "on this side of the pond", and have found that few have the comfort, quality, and accuracy that I seek in a bow, no matter how many ads I am force-fed, I trust myself more than all of them put together. Maybe I now see your points on wanting to shoot them yourselves, but the difference is I DO listen to those that have more experience than I do and respect them knowing they have more than me. A private doesn't make the command decisions during battle, the major has more experience and guides them to help keep them alive. This isn't quite as drastic, but works on the same principle. If I'm going through a minefield, I want a guy that has been through a hundred of them instead of a "cherry" in front of me, cause he knows what to look for. Same thing. I and others like Field 14 who "have been around the block" are simply trying to help archers in their quest to find the better mousetrap. Merlin has only been in the USA for a few years, about the same amount of time that Bowtech has been in business. You do not see millions of seasoned archers shooting them yet either. Eventually Merlin will have Factory Shooting Staff personnel in every format here in the States. I may have been a little overzealous with my wording with the "slap in the face" comment and I apologize for that one, but I am as passionate about this sport as anyone out there.(it's my business and livlihood, not just a hobby) As far as knowing what will be quiet and comfortable in any persons' hands, I really don't believe that to be a Mr. Wizard equation that only one person can answer, yes, I can tell you what is quiet and smooth with great accuracy. I can tell you that twin cams are more tunable than solos, and usually much more forgiving for the average archer, contrary to the "big trend" and popular belief that is being force-fed to most archers today. I can also tell you that a company that has to go full-tilt, 7 days a week for 6 months straight to try and keep up with orders each year will not have the same tolerances and quality control of a smaller company that doesn't have to "run ragged" and takes utmost pride in their overall product instead of the almighty dollar and total numbers sold. Yes, I do know a few things about this industry as I should, I've been around it a long time. "Tolerances and attention to detail" are important to everyone who picks up a bow. Why? because it is the little things that make a bow "great". It's overall geometry and holding properties. The thumb-knuckle cutout that eliminates torque and callouses! A great bow that will go many years without failure, one that will require less maintenence,(especially if it's a hunting rig and not treated too kindly) and one that will give you the most accuracy for your money. If you can hit a 2" spot at 20 yds with any bow, that's great! But, the difference between "good" and "great" is how long will that bow do that without maintenence? One year, two maybe? Who really bothers with correct maintenence schedules? Few of us do. With sloppy tolerances everything gets "loose" much quicker over time and can move, wearing parts(that are cheaper also!) much quicker and affecting accuracy. That 2" could be 4" or 6" next year, depending upon how much you shoot. Precision tolerances and higher grade materials help to keep your bow at it's optimum performance level for many years. I'm not here to cut down our American products and sorry if it looked that way, as stated some are very good, the Bowmans' for instance are excellent bows, so are the Redman as Sag has stated. But I am here to try and help archers choose a "great" product, and unfortunately I must say some of the bigger USA companies are lacking because they cut too many corners and use cheaper materials and parts. Maybe if their sales went to companies that build a better product it would be incentive enough for them to get with the program too instead of roping everyone in with all of the "smoke and mirrors" we currently see. That's it in a nutshell. The bottom line is as was stated---If you are happy with what you are shooting, enjoy your bow and your shooting! THAT is really what it is all about! <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> The rest is up to each individual, all guys like myself can do is offer our experience to help. Maybe from now on I'll wait to be asked first tho! <img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle> <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> Good shooting, Pinwheel 12 Edited by - Pinwheel 12 on 09/01/2002 19:45:59 |
RE: Merlin Bows...Don't overlook them!
Ok Sag...
One, how in the heck am I supposed to hunt with a bow that looks like that? First I would be afraid of scratchin' the darn thing and, second, I would be afraid to put it down as someone will likely pick it up... You need to get one in that fancy Sherwood forest camo man! Two, just how much is one of these pretty little gems gonna run me??? ...and do they actually sell something to my liking?...aka, an under-34 inch axle to axle length, single cam that can be adjusted to a 31 inch draw length....or is it all those darn long, heavy, recurve limb-looking target bows? I long for the days of the Hoyt anodized finishes....and that Sherwood camo looks so darn pretty.:) |
RE: Merlin Bows...Don't overlook them!
I also have to put in a good word for the Merlin's. I have personally seen 3 of there models,the Super Nova, the Max 2000, and the Hunter's Quest Twin Cam. I myself own a "Top of the Line" American made bow. I personally find this bow to be okay, however it doesn't compare with the Merlin line of bows. About the only thing I would say I like better about my American bow is that it is quieter than the Merlin. However the Hunter's Quest that I shot was so unbelievably quiet it was unreal, and this bow is a 2 cam which are usually noisy. I must also point out that the Hunter's Quest was set about 10 pounds higher than my bow and my arrows were heavy for the set up were the Hunter's Quest arrows were I believe close to 5 or 6 grains per pound. So as of now I have a Max on order, and after this hunting season my American Bow is going up for sale and I will be buying a Merlin Hunter's Quest 35 for hunting. I would order one now but hunting season starts in 2 weeks and the wife would kill me right now. So for all of you who wouldn't buy a Merling because you can't see it, that is your choice. However you are really missing out.
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RE: Merlin Bows...Don't overlook them!
Frank,
Don't worry. I plan on getting a Sherwood Forest Merlin eventually. The Hunter's Quest 35 is available with the fabulous Profusion limbs in your 31" draw length. Yeah, I know it's not 32" ata but look at it this way. Only three more inches and you can be shooting the best short ata bow on the planet. And by far the best looking too. Heck, I'm still waiting on my custom Trails End Recurve to arrive in October. It will be 64" long and I plan on hunting with it from a tree stand. So how can a 35" compound be too long for you ? As far as price, contact Pinwheel 12 as I'd rather not put any prices on the message board. Pinwheel will treat you right! Go for it Frank. You know you want one! Sag. |
RE: Merlin Bows...Don't overlook them!
Ok, max2000 is on my wishlist for my next bow. Whats the average cost of a max2000?
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RE: Merlin Bows...Don't overlook them!
Pinwheel, I emailed you from your profile, it came back undelivered. I have a question.
<font color=blue>Good Luck and Good Shooting</font id=blue> <font color=red>Rob</font id=red> |
RE: Merlin Bows...Don't overlook them!
They are very nice looking bows, from what I hear they are very well made and shoot great!
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RE: Merlin Bows...Don't overlook them!
I too am extremely please with the 2 Merlin bows that I have -- a Max2000 and a Supernova. Everything said about these bows is right on the money. The craftsmanship is heads and tails above anything else I have seen. I am really liking my Supernova -- it is a fantastic feeling bow to draw aim and shoot. It is the smoothest bow I have ever pulled. Now the guys who have grown accustomed to that harsh draw cycle and high let-off of most bows out there today and think it is smooth would have to get used to something like this, but it is a pleasure to draw.
Not only are the bows extremely well made, but the customer service from both Merlin and Pinwheel 12 are top notch. Anything you need is taken care of instantly. You can usually have an answer from a question in less than 1 day, and often the same day, and sometimes within minutes, if they are on line. |
RE: Merlin Bows...Don't overlook them!
[quote]
"I can tell you that twin cams are more tunable than solos, and usually much more forgiving for the average archer, contrary to the "big trend" and popular belief that is being force-fed to most archers today" [quote] I'm shooting a Hoyt Ultratec w/command cams , so I can honestly say we do agree on something!<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> [img]http://www.whitetails.com/00deer21.gif"> "Nocked,cocked & ready to rock" Edited by - bowfanatic on 09/02/2002 14:12:15 |
RE: Merlin Bows...Don't overlook them!
Bowfanatic,
In the past, my experience with twin cams was not the best. No problem with tuning and accuracy, but they were loud. I had a Darton that I just couldn't quiet down no matter how much vibration dampening stuff I put on it. My brother had a '99 Hoyt Striker II with command cams that sounded like a .22 going off. It wasn't just his bow. A friend of his, had the same bow and he finally sold it because of all the ribbing he took in a league that he used it in. If you want to know how loud a bow is, compared to others, shoot it indoors where sound is amplified. As a hunter, quiet is very important to me and single cams seem to excell in this department. It has also been demonstrated quite well that single cams shoot more than adequately well for what most hunters need. I believe there are even a few pros doing okay with them. My personal belief is, the average archer will find a single cam with a defined stop (hard wall) more forgiving than learning to shoot the valley on a twin cam. |
RE: Merlin Bows...Don't overlook them!
Straightarrow
I shoot indoor leagues every week and have heard just about every bow on the market. My Ultratec is'nt the quietest bow around , but it's quieter than alot of other solocams I have. As for the Hoyt striker w/command cams , I guess it depends on how you set it up , Ive heard strikers that were just as quiet as the next bow. With my ultratec , I've shot side by side with a buddy that has the Pearson 38special with no noticeable difference between the two.(The 38special made the quietest bow list). Probably the main reason (besides accuracy) for shooting a longer ATA with double cams is the smoothness of the draw. Every year I see more and more guys sidelined from shoulder injuries and I'll deffinately avoid that scenario (knock on wood) by shooting a smooth drawing double cam bow. Sag Sorry for getting off topic! I may be bullheaded when it comes to sticking with my american bows , but I will say , from what I see from their website , Merlin appears to have some appealing bows. Have they (Merlin) ever given consideration to starting up a mfg plant in the U.S? Edited by - bowfanatic on 09/02/2002 14:19:52 |
RE: Merlin Bows...Don't overlook them!
Bowfanatic,
It's ok that you got a little off topic. Heck, I've been known to turn topics inside out at times, lol. Haven't heard if Merlin ever plans to open a US plant but stranger things have happened. I'm sure, Pinwheel 12 would be the first to know. Sag. |
RE: Merlin Bows...Don't overlook them!
Rob-
The e-mail addy in my profile is correct. Should work OK. If not, you can also reach me through [email protected] just address it to me, the staff will see that I receive it. I will not be back in until Wednesday, however. I'll get back to you ASAP. <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> Straightarrow (and any others interested)-- The reasoning behind my comments that "twins are more tunable and generally more forgiving for the average archer" are based on a few facts as follows-- bear with me, this will take awhile to explain: 1) Twin cams are faster than solos if of the same configuration. Therefore, manufacturers have made most conventional solos with a much harsher draw cycle which stores more energy in an effort to compete with the speed of the twins. This harsher draw cycle is much harder on the archers' shoulder and back muscles, especially when they "overbow" themselves with the "false sense of ease" of the 80% let-off at the end of the draw cycle. They also cannot be tuned to as fine a degree as twins simply because they have no opposing cam to "balance-out the system". Ever get those occasional "flyers" with a conventional solo? Most everyone that shoots a solo has had them at one time or another. You simply cannot tune them out with a solo, they come from creeping slightly forward (most archers will from time to time) which rotates the single cam, and throws your shot. With twins you can "supertune" both cams and eliminate those high or low shots and have the same impact points regardless of creep or overdraw. In other words IMHO you have to work much harder to shoot a solo with the same consistency, especially when being a beginning or average archer, regardless of what you "think" you feel due to the higher let-off. Try it with an open mind and see for yourselves. 2) Most conventional solos have 80% let-off to help "mask" the harsher draw cycle they exhibit as stated above. This IMO is also detrimental to an average shooters' accuracy, because the higher the let-off, the less tension that runs through the entire system, and this lesser tension allows the archer to draw the string out of it's natural path much easier, therefore causing more left/right shots. Pros are not as apt to be bothered by this or by #1, because they know what they can safely and comfortably pull, and have superb form and shooting skills. Yes, Pros are winning with solos, but they are being paid to and are going where the money is, otherwise few would be there IMO. They also do not have any of the "form flaws" that most archers do, and thus CAN win with them. I have shot solos for quite awhile myself, but can honestly say I have never shot the scores that I do with twins. Guys like Dave Cousins say the difference between solos and twins and accuracy is that with the solo Dave can keep them in the "9", but with twins he can keep them in the "10". With something like 16 World Records under his belt, I think he knows his business, too. That same distance can be the difference between a solid double lung and a "no-man's land" shot, or the difference between a 10 and a 12 in 3D. Another interesting fact is that most of the Pros I know that shoot the solos are running 65% modules or cams in them. Ever pull a true 65% solocam? He-he, better you than me, been there and done that, no wonder I feel old! <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> 3) The hard-wall of the solos is now being matched by built-in "wallbangers" (stops) on alot of the twins. They are rock solid also. Moot point here. 4) Conventional Solos need to be kept in time also, contrary to the "myth" that they are virtually maintenence free. Cam rotation and nocking point height are VERY critical with them, and they can go "out" quickly with their longer string due to increased chance of slippage or stretch. This is not as much of a factor today with the better string materials/better building techiniques available, but a shorter string/cable combination is always better than a longer one regardless to take away any factor at all.(some solos admittedly have this and adjustable cam also whihc helps this) This means the average Joe will be spending more time at the shop and on the range chasing sight marks than a guy with a twin. I have not touched my Max 2000 in over 8 months since I switched over to Pro-Fusion carbons for it, the cams are still perfectly on my timing marks after thousands of shots, and it hits the X every time. None of my previous solos would touch that for that period of time without some diddling. In fact, IMO the ONLY 2 things solos now currently have over the twins is 1)- that out of the box, they will initially hold better. This is readily rectified with twins during the tuning/setup process, and becomes a moot point if done correctly with proper stabilization and timing/tuning. Most new twins hold superbly. And 2)-- They are quieter for the most part. Out of the box, this is true and I have no arguement. Interestingly enough, a quick and correct application of cat whiskers and limbsavers will put most every quality bow made today (twin or solo) in the same class also, and is much cheaper IMHO than a doctors' bill for strained or torn muscles due to a harsh draw! Another person said it best---"If they keep on upgrading the solocam, they'll re-invent the twin cam". I believe he may be correct! <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> I don't believe this should turn into a Ford/Chevy debate over solos/twins, but kept to being about better products. However after some thought here I feel the two do go hand-in-hand, and I felt that I should clarify a few issues and offer my thoughts on why I feel twins will be a better choice overall for most archers. Companies such as Merlin, Martin, Bowman, will back up my statements 100%, and even tho they all offer solos to the World,(keeping with market "fads" and "trends", they all have to eat too) they all prefer twins across the board.(Most of the above stated will not offer solos on their top of the line models, even!) As stated above, whatever you feel comfortable with and whatever you'd like to shoot is fine with me, there are many guys shooting solos out there that love them. As long as we're all shooting, that is definately what matters most. BUT, being a technical forum, I figured this is the place to discuss such things in a civil manner, however! <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> Bowfanatic-- Glad to see we can agree! <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> Merlin has no current plans to bring MFG to the US that I know of, but hey, how much closer can you get than England? (Canada and Mexico, maybe?)<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> Good shooting, Pinwheel 12 |
RE: Merlin Bows...Don't overlook them!
Ok, I need some help to make a few choices. I have decided to replace my bowtech bk2 with a max2000 for 3d's. I have decided to get away from the 315fps and get into the 280fps range. Plus it will be a little longer ata and have a little longer brace height. My question is, what color should I get? What color are the pro-fusion carbon limbs? And I plan on getting the shoot through system, so whats the best drop away rest to put on it? The biggie is the color, Black, silver or platinum?
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RE: Merlin Bows...Don't overlook them!
Pinwheel.
Do you think the max 2000 will be available with the new T-wheel cams in the near future?? Or they only going to use them on the Super Nova? |
RE: Merlin Bows...Don't overlook them!
W.460,
To me, the silver is awesome and looks like polished chrome in person. The Profusion limbs are painted silver. As far as the color though, you should get what appeals to you. The ARC is by far the most popular drop-away rest for Merlin bows. I use the Pro Tuner on both my Max and Super Nova and love it. I truly believe the Pro Tuner is the best rest anywhere. Ausie-Guy, Ben Jones is already using the T wheels on his personal Max2000 and recently set a record with it. They will definitely be available for all Max2000's in the near future. Sag. |
RE: Merlin Bows...Don't overlook them!
Pinwheel,
I appreciate your well thought out and detailed explanation of twin vs single cam. I've heard these explanations before and I have no reason to argue otherwise. I'm quite certain that the twin cam bow will be a bit more forgiving for some, or maybe even most archers, however, I do wonder if it's primary benefit is in target archery. I don't know a single bowhunter that knows how to tune their twin cams, much less how to perform a creep-tuning (I'm sure they exist, just not many of them). I think the average archer would find the twin cam more forgiving if they knew to tune it once a year and learned the tuning methods, but unfortunately, that's not likely to be the case. In addition to that, the average 15 to 20 yard bowhunting shot, is probably affected greater by far more factors than just raw target shooting ability. I think those with a lot of experience and in the top 10% in shooting ability will probably shoot a single cam more than adequately enough to be considered a good choice for hunting. Conversely, those without much experience or knowledge, might be better off with a bow that doesn't require much in the way of tuning. I need to listen to someone who is shooting a new twin cam to get an idea of how quiet they can be made. I shoot in an area where the vast majority of shooters are hunters who also shoot an occasional 3D tournament. It seems almost every new bow around here is a single cam. The one league I shoot, takes place at a Mathews dealership and a vast majority of all the bows used in this league are Mathews. Out of the 100 shooters in the league, I'm one of about 15-20% shooting something else. The few twins being shot are at least a few years old and they all make noticably more noise than the single cams. Once again, I get back to the fact, that I need to be able to shoot one before I could make that decision. |
RE: Merlin Bows...Don't overlook them!
Look at you guys. I go away for the long week-end and you bring up my favorite topic. Merlins. As some of you know I shoot a Max 2000. I have to agree Sag and Pinwheel about this bow. It felt great in my hands even before I shot it. The grip, the balance and the feel of the draw cycle is as good if not better then any bow I've ever felt.I odered mine with the duel cams and before the new cabon limbs where out and couldn't imagine it shooting any better. Well I was wrong. I recently up-graded to the new profusion limbs and felt the difference at the gate. Someone said a bow won't make the shooter. I some what agree. Well if that bow fits and feels right in your hands it'll definitly improve your scores or group size. It has for me. I've shot some good top-end bows from some of the best manufactures but this Max 2000 edges out all I have ever shot or owned. I could go on but the only way for anyone to apprecate the bow is to shoot it. If your serious about this sport and looking for a top-end bow do yourself a favor and go out of your way if need be to shoot one. I had to travel 2.5 hrs to see this Merlin and it was worth it. The cream on top is the customer service. Second to none. How many companies have the owner on the other end of your e-mails or phone calls. If there is any down side with Merlin it's only that it takes about 10 days to get anything by mail. I had a splinter in a limb and they never blinked and eye the sent me my new ones no charge no hassel. I usually buy a bow every year but I won't this year and next year I know it'll be a Merlin hands down. Jerry
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RE: Merlin Bows...Don't overlook them!
W460-
Color is a personal thing. Whatever floats your boat. They are all excellent. Most people are shooting the ARC or the Britesite Pro-Tuner, and a few of us are shooting the GKF Golden Premier with Carbon Supreme launcher. For hunting alot of my customers are using the Bodoodle Pro-500 or Pro-lite. Ausie guy- Yes, The Max is now currently available with the t-wheels, and Sag is correct, all target limbs are now silver. Camo bows have matching limbs. Straight arrow-- My point exactly. That is why I and other techs who have been in this business many years are in business! (So guys can go and have things done by an expert technician) Otherwise, there would be no need for Pro-shops at all except for people to go play "touchy-feely" when they are bored from watching their favorite TV shows! <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> Jerry-- Nice to hear from you! Good shooting, Pinwheel 12 |
RE: Merlin Bows...Don't overlook them!
Sorry guys, me again. Another question, what do i order, the t wheels or the cams? What are the advantages or disadvantages of one or the other. Thanks!
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RE: Merlin Bows...Don't overlook them!
The T-wheels are primarily made for spot-shooting. They are round wheels, with modularly-adjustable 55% or 65% let-off and choice of soft-wall (long valley) or hard-wall (solid stop).This option is an industry first, by the way. The Rapid cams are an extremely smooth-drawing, faster cam, 65% let-off, with 1" modular adjustment.
For an "all around bow", you should opt for the Rapid cams, IMO. With this configuration the Max has the speed necessary to compete in formats such as 3D, and will fling a heavier hunting arrow at reasonable speeds. The accuracy is still built-in, this bow has won many World Championships and broken a few World Records with this configuration. If you are primarily a spot shooter, the T-wheels will fit the bill for you, but personally I feel that if you are going to go for the t-wheels, pick the bow best-suited for that application also, which will be the longer ATA, deeper brace Supernova. Ben Jones just set a new European Record with the T-wheels on his Max, but it should be noted also that he held the European record with the Max with Rapid cams prior to that. He will soon be shooting the Supernova in competition also, he just didn't have time to get one set-up and broken in before the Championships this year. Whatever floats your boat and what applications you will be using the bow for is what should determine which bow/cam combo you should utilize. Good shooting, Pinwheel 12 |
RE: Merlin Bows...Don't overlook them!
There is basically the same twin/solo debate going on on another messageboard, with some quite interesting reading. I picked this response out from Geroge Ryals 4, who for those that do not know is a premier archer and designer/manager for Martin Archery, who offers both solos and twins to the Archery community--
{Quote}- "The first three times a single cam system was introduced to the archery community, advertisers did not tout it as a fix for a problem. (DynaBo, Spartan, and Unistar) It was introduced as an option, not a fix for something real or imagined. This last time it was re-introduced, it was advertised as a fix for a mysterious problem. Customers were given the impression that you did not have to tune them and that the bow that they were currently using was flawed. In reality they come with their own set of problems that you have to contend with. When I first saw the ads and the bows I thought the claims were outlandish and that it would never fly. Well that was my first lesson in the power of advertising. Those familiar with the Creep Tune method will agree that wheel timing is no more a hassle than adjusting a nock set. However, unsuspecting bow hunters, who were completely unaware of wheel timing, were told that their bows were no good. They were also unaware of the problems that a 100+ string would cause, the affect it has on nock sets and peeps, or what happens when you have a different dynamic action on each end of the bow Here is a little food for thought. If the single cam system is advertised to be the best and a replacement for two cams, why does every other manufacturer still offer two cam systems? Second, if there are real problems with two cam systems, why haven’t the two cam manufactures released a fix for the problem each year like the single cam pushers have for their systems? __________________ Don't overthink it; you might outsmart yourself. George Ryals IV {End Quote} Just more food for thought. Pinwheel 12 Edited by - Pinwheel 12 on 09/03/2002 07:30:46 |
RE: Merlin Bows...Don't overlook them!
Pinwheel,
You forgot about lower in vibration and recoil too...<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> Seriously though, I would like to hear what you have to say about some of the newer single cam designs that utilize a softer drawing single cam with split strings...like the Browning Cyber cam, Hoyt Versa/Excel cams and Darton CPS systems. They would seem to not have some of the problems that you mentioned...ie, the hard draw cycle, etc.... |
RE: Merlin Bows...Don't overlook them!
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
{Quote}-When I first saw the ads and the bows I thought the claims were outlandish and that it would never fly. Well that was my first lesson in the power of advertising....George Ryals IV <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote> Sounds like the advocates of the twin cam should counteract this with their own effective advertising campaign. My guess is, it will be a tough road ahead of them. I believe many hunters have experienced the same thing I have. My single cam bow is enjoyed more than my last twin cam, because it is quieter, has less hand shock, seems to be easier to keep tuned and I'm shooting at least as well with it as my latest twin cam (never creep-tuned it, because I didn't know how back then). To overcome this good experience will take some good advertising to show us hunters why a new twin cam is better. Hunters will readily switch if convinced that the twin cam is better for hunting than the single cam, but I believe manufacturers have their work cut out for them, to make that one fly. |
RE: Merlin Bows...Don't overlook them!
Frank-
The Darton CPS is a "hybrid", more twin cam than it is solo. It does handle and shoot well, and IMO is the best "non twin cam" system going.Thankfully they went their own way some years ago, otherwise they too, would be in the same boat as most manufacturers today. The Browning Cyber cam does nothing for me really, in fact I've only shot one once so cannot readily comment heavily on them other than stifle a yawn. The Hoyt cams and dual-track idler are actually twin cams, you just don't know it!<img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle> Anytime you have a string or cable that is CONNECTED to a wheel or cam in any way, it must be counted as a "power source" and is not a true solocam because that postion is being "actuated" due to a stop/start string /cable position. If it runs up and AROUND the wheel and rests on it instead of actuating it with the ending loop on the post, then it is deemed an "idler", and therefore will be a true "conventional solocam" because it is not doing anything and is not a "stop" for a string or cable, regardless of whether the cam does the actual work or not. Technically I guess we can now call them a "hybrid", also. Don't feel bad, Diamond and Alpine had them, too. As someone said, "if they keep on upgrading the solos, they will re-invent the twin cam". They are definately heading in that direction, my friend! As stated, it really doesn't matter to me what you want to shoot, as long as you're comfortable shooting it. But many techs and designers and Pros concur with me, and I suspect a "turning of the trend" as more people figure these things out. <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> Good shooting, Pinwheel 12 |
RE: Merlin Bows...Don't overlook them!
Thanks everbody, You all have convinced me to buy a merlin max2000. The bk2 is on ebay and doin well, so I am going to order through Mr.Pinwheel in the next day or two. One big problem. what color? If I go with silver, will a black rest look tacky? Also are the strings any good on the merlins? How do they compare to winners choice or zebra strings?
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