Arthur and all,
Only one thing else concerning the range issue, I was in Africa last year and again this year with a range finder and It is great when I get into the stand but can someone tell me how to use it, set it down, pick up my bow , draw and sight without spooking the animal at 20 yards?

I use a range finder to get yardages when I first get to my stand sight and put the laser away.

If you are the least bit unsure of the yardage DON'T SHOOT!
I passed up a REAL nice Nyala ram last year because of that exact issue. He turned out to be at 30 instead of 20ish that I thought. No shot and I am a happy camper <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

Great descussion guys ...Thanks

Greg

&quot;Getting close to the game is the joy of Bowhunting for me, the harvest is a bonus.&quot;

Live 15 ft Python after eating a small Antelope!

Greg. I don't know how to use a rangefinder in a stalking or still hunting situation. I would guess the answer would be to move when the game is looking the other way. Kinda hard to do if there's a herd around the target animal, huh?

I used to have one of those old kind of rangefinders where you dial the knob until the two images are lined up, but it never worked worth a flip. Didn't need it anyway. You see, I spent about 6 years working as an instrument man on a land surveying crew, shoot 3D all year long and go stump shooting. I know how to judge yardage and work on it consistently to keep the skill fresh.

Anyone with good binocular vision can learn how to judge yardage if they want to.

I have the same style as you also and yes it is tough when still hunting!
I use the laser if I miss when stump shooting and also if I find an area I plan on ground standing or building a temporary blind.
I also use a laser form the ground/base of the tree ?I have a tree stand in, to get a number distance markers.

You are right that you need to continue to practice in order to keep the skill accurate

Greg

&quot;Getting close to the game is the joy of Bowhunting for me, the harvest is a bonus.&quot;

Live 15 ft Python after eating a small Antelope!

I have a laser rangefinder also, and will shoot the distances around my stand or blind a number of times to memorize them. If nothing is going on instead of glassing I often reshoot the distances to test my memory of what they are. Passes the time some while waiting for something to happen.

Arthur,

Since I'm one of those speed freeks you warmly refer to , its really not that bad getting things tuned at a little over 300fps. As in all setups you need the proper arrows. I just setup another new dozen arrows and tuned them for broadheads. 10 of the arrows made the cut grouping in a 1.5&quot; circle at 20yds, the other 2 arrows are getting &quot;culled&quot; and will not tune. The arrows are supposed to be all the same spine, but obviously not, they would not index and come in. I will put a fieldpoint on them and see what happens, they may survive for that purpose, otherwise they're stump shooters.

Aim Hard!

Archery Program, I have a scenerio, Lets say that two different bows are used, with the exact same arrow. Both bows put out exactly 60 pounds of KE at the peak draw cycle. Now will the the KE energy of both arrows shot be the same at 40 yards out. Or, could there be a difference? Why?

Edited by - BobCo19-65 on 08/15/2002 15:26:28

I'm not Archery Program, but 60# of KE is 60# of KE with the same arrow regardless of the bow. Thats because the weight and speed have to be the same values to obtain that exact KE number, so therefore the down range values would be the same given equal shooting conditions.

Aim Hard!

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> It is really hard to get arrows that are correctly spined to have 350 grains difference in weight.

<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

Not true at all. I have shot carbons shot with 75 grain muzzys around 400 grain, and I have shot aluminums with 187 grain tiped broadheads out of the same bow (700 grain arrow). Didn't like the carbons though.

FL Hunter, thanks.

Edited by - BobCo19-65 on 08/15/2002 15:31:03

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Archery Program, I have a scenerio, Lets say that two different bows are used, with the exact same arrow. Both bows put out exactly 60 pounds of KE at the peak draw cycle. Now will the the KE energy of both arrows shot be the same at 40 yards out. Or, could there be a difference? Why?

Edited by - BobCo19-65 on 08/15/2002 15:26:28
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

First of all a bow doesnt put out KE, I will assume you are talking about stored energy for the sake of this question.

If both bows had identical draw length, brace height and draw force curves, and effeciency....the answer is yes. If any of these variables are different then the answer is no.

The reason for the above answer is simple. It's called string time for the draw length and brace height, and it's called force for the draw cycle curve and efficiency. An example would be two identical bows except for the draw length. Both bows set at the same poundage will store the same amount of energy, however the bow with the longer draw length will deliver a faster arrow and therefore more KE.

If you changed the question to read &quot;If the arrows left the bow with the same KE&quot; then the answer is invariably yes! We already know they are the same arrow so the only way they could have the same KE when leaving the bow is if they are also traveling at the exact same velocity.

Did this help?




&gt;&gt;&gt;------Tony Virnoche------&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;---The Archery Program---&gt;&gt;&gt;

Edited by - thearcheryprogram on 08/15/2002 17:54:42

Arthur,
Actually the ACC does have more ke at 60 yards and continues to have more but we are getting way outside of normal hunting conditions.


If I hunted Elk,this would be nice to know.I wouldn't be scared of a 60 yard shot on one if using an AC kinetic II arrow knowing it will retain more energy than an aluminum at the same weight.Yes I can get correctly spined Kinetic II up around 450 gr.


50 yards is the ABSOLUTE max on deer and would have to be an ABSOLUTELY PERFECT situation.

I am just a bit more comfortable knowing that the arrow is moving around 260-270 for that once in a lifetime shot.240-250 would be fine for me also but I would still be using some sort of carbon.

I am not a speed freak like some but I am not a momentum freak either.


My statement is true for me about getting a CORRECTLY SPINED arrow to be 350 gr heavier.FOR ME.It is very hard to do.


The best I can do is about 585gr.with a 185 gr point.I can get up to 600 gr with 200 gr points but foc is getting out of hand.



Now I can get an arrow that is too stiff a lot closer to that weight but not in the range that I like for accurate setups.I could also add some of the weights that are available but,like I stated before,No game in North America really needs that much momentum from my bow.


Traditional shooterts,on the otherhand need as much weight as possible for momentum because they have very little ke.It is neccesary for their setups.