p.o.i jumping 6" to 1 foot at 15 yds
09-17-2004, 07:32 PM
#32
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 224
RE: p.o.i jumping 6" to 1 foot at 15 yds
Do yourself a big favor and have a set of cables made out of BCY 452X, I know string makers will tell you they prestretch their 8125 but believe me it really never stops creeping. Once you install the 452X cables take about 50 shots adjust timing and your done.
BD
BD
09-20-2004, 10:30 AM
#33
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location:
Posts: 76
RE: p.o.i jumping 6" to 1 foot at 15 yds
More time at the range this weekend.
After having cams resynced, I marked them to watch for out of sync problems.
Anyway, was getting semi decent results...but still some odd fliers. Found that when I shot from a treestand, I was more consistent, but still got a flier (out of ten shots)
Also brought out my old XI Flatliner to see if my shooting has gone to heck...or try and narrow down what I'm doing with the new bow.
Old bow shot like a champ (It was wild to pick up a 2317 arrow after you've been shooting carbon 340's for a while).
I looked at the old bow to see what I might be doing differently with it. Big thing I noticed...peep is about 2" closer to nock. I also figured out why I never needed a kisser on the old bow. When at full draw, the arrow's outside vane is right in the corner of my mouth.
I tried holding the dually with the vane in the same anchor spot. Once I move the peep, it should work fine.
Part of my issues I'm sure are consistent anchor (which has been mentioned before). I'd put a kisser on...but it seems better to put less crud on the string and just change the peep to nock setup so that it works the same as my old bow.
After having cams resynced, I marked them to watch for out of sync problems.
Anyway, was getting semi decent results...but still some odd fliers. Found that when I shot from a treestand, I was more consistent, but still got a flier (out of ten shots)
Also brought out my old XI Flatliner to see if my shooting has gone to heck...or try and narrow down what I'm doing with the new bow.
Old bow shot like a champ (It was wild to pick up a 2317 arrow after you've been shooting carbon 340's for a while).
I looked at the old bow to see what I might be doing differently with it. Big thing I noticed...peep is about 2" closer to nock. I also figured out why I never needed a kisser on the old bow. When at full draw, the arrow's outside vane is right in the corner of my mouth.
I tried holding the dually with the vane in the same anchor spot. Once I move the peep, it should work fine.
Part of my issues I'm sure are consistent anchor (which has been mentioned before). I'd put a kisser on...but it seems better to put less crud on the string and just change the peep to nock setup so that it works the same as my old bow.
09-23-2004, 11:12 AM
#34
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location:
Posts: 76
RE: p.o.i jumping 6" to 1 foot at 15 yds
Kisser installed, anchor solid...
Still the same issue.
I told the dealer I think it needs creep tuning. He wasn't real keen on the idea.
I believe what's causing a tiny bit of creep is not my draw arm.. It's my bow arm. If I shift grip or relax my shoulder at all while shooting, I think that causes variance.
i looked at Spot Hogs' website. The creep tuning instructions were pretty sparse. Anyone know of a more detailed description and instructions on this process.
If I can't get this resolved, I'm going to sell or trade the bow. I'm 70% to the point where I think I'll be using my old Flatliner this season.
Still the same issue.
I told the dealer I think it needs creep tuning. He wasn't real keen on the idea.
I believe what's causing a tiny bit of creep is not my draw arm.. It's my bow arm. If I shift grip or relax my shoulder at all while shooting, I think that causes variance.
i looked at Spot Hogs' website. The creep tuning instructions were pretty sparse. Anyone know of a more detailed description and instructions on this process.
If I can't get this resolved, I'm going to sell or trade the bow. I'm 70% to the point where I think I'll be using my old Flatliner this season.
09-23-2004, 12:32 PM
#36
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location:
Posts: 76
RE: p.o.i jumping 6" to 1 foot at 15 yds
I got ahold of a tech guy at Spot hog and he pointed me to the right spot for discussion of the creep tuning (newsletter 10)
I will try shortening the draw...that is one thing dealer suggested. He suggested doing it by the loop, but I think you'ld have to shorten the actual draw length to handle this issue.
blah
I will try shortening the draw...that is one thing dealer suggested. He suggested doing it by the loop, but I think you'ld have to shorten the actual draw length to handle this issue.
blah
09-24-2004, 04:30 PM
#37
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location:
Posts: 76
I've Crept
Went to the dealer and had a sit down. Walked through all possible things that I could be doing and the bow could be doing. After this discussion...we started creeping.
First tried increasing the twist to bottom by 1 turn. This expanded my gap from 6-8" to 10". (BTW, I'm not attempting to creep my draw forward for testing...I'm just sitting comfortably at wall...or really pulling against it)
We then went back to in sync, and then out by 1 turn, and that put me at about a straight 5-6" gap.
Finally, we went out 1/2 twist more.
This gave me a 2" gap. I was kinda worried, because now I could get some droppers...if I held at the first wall I feel, the gap jumps to about 10".
After I sat and pondered a minute, I figured out what's going on. Being 1 1/2 twist out of sync, I can discern when one cam turns, then the other. If I pull to the first "wall" of the first cam coming over, I'll shoot oh, 10" low of poa. But, if I pull to the second wall (when both cams have turned) I'm on poa. If I then pull to the second wall...and reef against it, I'll maybe shoot 2" high of poa at 20 yds.
I will shoot it this way at the range tomorrow...I think I can go with this.
When the bow was in full sync, if I let my bow arm relax at all from being at the wall (and not reefing against it), the cams will try and pull the release out of my hand....there's no valley or wiggle room
With the cams now being this much out of sync...I know that if the bow is pulling my release away from me...I'm only at the first wall and have to come to the next bump (this is kinda making a valley for me where the in-sync bow has none).
We'll see how I do tomorrow.
Guys with dualies who've creep tuned....how much out of sync are you? Can you discern two bumps...or didn't you have to come that far out of whack?
First tried increasing the twist to bottom by 1 turn. This expanded my gap from 6-8" to 10". (BTW, I'm not attempting to creep my draw forward for testing...I'm just sitting comfortably at wall...or really pulling against it)
We then went back to in sync, and then out by 1 turn, and that put me at about a straight 5-6" gap.
Finally, we went out 1/2 twist more.
This gave me a 2" gap. I was kinda worried, because now I could get some droppers...if I held at the first wall I feel, the gap jumps to about 10".
After I sat and pondered a minute, I figured out what's going on. Being 1 1/2 twist out of sync, I can discern when one cam turns, then the other. If I pull to the first "wall" of the first cam coming over, I'll shoot oh, 10" low of poa. But, if I pull to the second wall (when both cams have turned) I'm on poa. If I then pull to the second wall...and reef against it, I'll maybe shoot 2" high of poa at 20 yds.
I will shoot it this way at the range tomorrow...I think I can go with this.
When the bow was in full sync, if I let my bow arm relax at all from being at the wall (and not reefing against it), the cams will try and pull the release out of my hand....there's no valley or wiggle room
With the cams now being this much out of sync...I know that if the bow is pulling my release away from me...I'm only at the first wall and have to come to the next bump (this is kinda making a valley for me where the in-sync bow has none).
We'll see how I do tomorrow.
Guys with dualies who've creep tuned....how much out of sync are you? Can you discern two bumps...or didn't you have to come that far out of whack?
09-26-2004, 08:15 PM
#38
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location:
Posts: 76
The Dually may enter the woods
Went and shot this weekend.
I can use this bow for deer hunting.
I found that my 100 gn Ironheads shoot about 8" high of 100 gn field points (I weighed a couple of tips...looks like the field points are really around 101 gn, while the Titaniums are around 98-99... don't think that should be a big deal). The broadheads hit cleanly in the vertical plane with original sight alignment.
In shooting and setting the sights, I ended up with a zero at 25 yds.
Shorter ranges than that, I was getting anywhere from 2" to 5" high... I think the 5" shots were coming from pulling against the wall too hard.
I found I kept zero out to the 30ish yd range. At 35 yds, I have about 5" drop. But, I found that the way the bow is tuned now, if I pull hard against the wall, I will come back to zero. At 40 yds, I have about 8-10" drop. So there, if I pull hard, and come up about 5" on poa, I'm in the right zone (only problem is...if I strain, I get some wiggle and lose accuracy left to right).
So... I believe I know how it's going to shoot, and I feel comfortable taking it to the woods.
I've mentioned before that I must be doing something that shortens my draw, and then makes the bow want to pull the release out of my hand. I still haven't nailed down what I'm doing there.... It still happens even with the bow set up the way it is now. I have it happen most often if I bring the bow up, and am trying to bring poa up 2 to 4 inches to get on target. My biggest guesses are that I'm allowing the bow arm to relax (or am trying to come up on target with my elbow instead of my shoulder), or I'm moving my head forward as I concentrate on bring my poa up.... By doing this, I wouldn't notice my draw hand/anchor moving...because my whole head and anchor would be moving in unison to a shortened draw.
Anyway...we'll see how it goes from here.
Just want to point out for anyone who is looking at Duallies.... the problem is certainly not with the bow. It's got to be me. I'm thinking that if I move to another bow, the two things I'd change are 1) get a longer draw length with less loop...I say this because I wonder if my issues arise because i'm not able to come to a natural draw point and have my bow arm at a perfect 90 from the direction I'm facing, and 2) a bow with a bigger valley...so I can feel better where I am in the power curve better.
I can use this bow for deer hunting.
I found that my 100 gn Ironheads shoot about 8" high of 100 gn field points (I weighed a couple of tips...looks like the field points are really around 101 gn, while the Titaniums are around 98-99... don't think that should be a big deal). The broadheads hit cleanly in the vertical plane with original sight alignment.
In shooting and setting the sights, I ended up with a zero at 25 yds.
Shorter ranges than that, I was getting anywhere from 2" to 5" high... I think the 5" shots were coming from pulling against the wall too hard.
I found I kept zero out to the 30ish yd range. At 35 yds, I have about 5" drop. But, I found that the way the bow is tuned now, if I pull hard against the wall, I will come back to zero. At 40 yds, I have about 8-10" drop. So there, if I pull hard, and come up about 5" on poa, I'm in the right zone (only problem is...if I strain, I get some wiggle and lose accuracy left to right).
So... I believe I know how it's going to shoot, and I feel comfortable taking it to the woods.
I've mentioned before that I must be doing something that shortens my draw, and then makes the bow want to pull the release out of my hand. I still haven't nailed down what I'm doing there.... It still happens even with the bow set up the way it is now. I have it happen most often if I bring the bow up, and am trying to bring poa up 2 to 4 inches to get on target. My biggest guesses are that I'm allowing the bow arm to relax (or am trying to come up on target with my elbow instead of my shoulder), or I'm moving my head forward as I concentrate on bring my poa up.... By doing this, I wouldn't notice my draw hand/anchor moving...because my whole head and anchor would be moving in unison to a shortened draw.
Anyway...we'll see how it goes from here.
Just want to point out for anyone who is looking at Duallies.... the problem is certainly not with the bow. It's got to be me. I'm thinking that if I move to another bow, the two things I'd change are 1) get a longer draw length with less loop...I say this because I wonder if my issues arise because i'm not able to come to a natural draw point and have my bow arm at a perfect 90 from the direction I'm facing, and 2) a bow with a bigger valley...so I can feel better where I am in the power curve better.
09-27-2004, 08:53 PM
#39
Fork Horn
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Vernon Hills IL USA
Posts: 382
RE: p.o.i jumping 6" to 1 foot at 15 yds
I honestly don't know how you're going to remember to do all that when you're trying to make the shot on an animal. I've been reading your post with interest. I don't think it's you. You seem to have a much better grasp than most of what you're experiencing when drawing the bow. Can't you just shorten the draw? It seems like you're too long and when you relax you slip into a non-existent valley. You're definitely not too short.
06-03-2005, 04:02 PM
#40
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location:
Posts: 76
RE: p.o.i jumping 6" to 1 foot at 15 yds
Hey, about time for an update.
Not a shootable deer came within bow range for me this year....kinda sucked. I launched one arrow at a buck someone in my party had wounded...but it was 60 yards and was more or less an attempt to put a second bad hit into an already wounded deer. Arrow hit a tree a foot and a half behind the deer, and we didn't find that deer during bow or gun season (although a neighbor found its half-eaten remains in January). When I went to find the arrow I had launched on that deer, I damn near tripped on a wounded deer that was hiding in the swamp. It was motionless, and I thought it could be dead...except I could see it had to be holding it's nose off the ground. So, shot it from about 10 feet and got to listen to it drown...real fun...and the only "kill" for the dually.
Anyways...of all the problems I had with the bow from start til season, I've still got a sick feeling in my craw about this bow and Bowtech.
I'm having the dealer retime the cams (again). I intend to practice with the bow this summer. If I'm not liking what it does by July, I'll sell it off to someone who it might suit better.
It was interesting when I dropped it off at my dealer, the first thing he said when I got it out was "Ah, an arm ripper." He then began to extol the virtures of the Allegiance.
They know, what I had finally figured out with the dually. If you do not follow targets perfectly from your waist, and allow your bow arm to follow the target (even as little as 1/2" at your bow hand), that's enough to come to the edge of the valley and your draw hand will get a jerk. People have said..."well, you have to turn at the waist to follow a target." to which I've said "no shxt." But, with this bow, there is absolutely no room for error. If the deer farts and you have to move your poa 1/2 forward on their chest...you better make damn sure you're doing it at the waist...not the bow arm.
Not a shootable deer came within bow range for me this year....kinda sucked. I launched one arrow at a buck someone in my party had wounded...but it was 60 yards and was more or less an attempt to put a second bad hit into an already wounded deer. Arrow hit a tree a foot and a half behind the deer, and we didn't find that deer during bow or gun season (although a neighbor found its half-eaten remains in January). When I went to find the arrow I had launched on that deer, I damn near tripped on a wounded deer that was hiding in the swamp. It was motionless, and I thought it could be dead...except I could see it had to be holding it's nose off the ground. So, shot it from about 10 feet and got to listen to it drown...real fun...and the only "kill" for the dually.
Anyways...of all the problems I had with the bow from start til season, I've still got a sick feeling in my craw about this bow and Bowtech.
I'm having the dealer retime the cams (again). I intend to practice with the bow this summer. If I'm not liking what it does by July, I'll sell it off to someone who it might suit better.
It was interesting when I dropped it off at my dealer, the first thing he said when I got it out was "Ah, an arm ripper." He then began to extol the virtures of the Allegiance.
They know, what I had finally figured out with the dually. If you do not follow targets perfectly from your waist, and allow your bow arm to follow the target (even as little as 1/2" at your bow hand), that's enough to come to the edge of the valley and your draw hand will get a jerk. People have said..."well, you have to turn at the waist to follow a target." to which I've said "no shxt." But, with this bow, there is absolutely no room for error. If the deer farts and you have to move your poa 1/2 forward on their chest...you better make damn sure you're doing it at the waist...not the bow arm.