Bare Shaft Tuning...Bullpoop or Not?
 

Sorry if the title is too much [&:]..I just remembered this old movie called Amazon Women on the Moon that was done by the guys who did Kentucky Fried Movie, and there was this "skit" based on Ripleys Believe it or Not...but...I digress :eek:

Anyhoo...plain and simple...

For compound shooters with a release..do you think BareShaft tuning has merit..or is the BS tuning, BS?

discuss :D

title is fine now;)

RE: Bare Shaft Tuning...Bull$hit or Not?
 

I really like bare shaft tuning. Its showing that all the energy is being drivin into the shaft and not wasted by a crooked release. Plus, with your bare shaft shooting the same as fletched, in theary it would mean less liklihood of windplaning cause your not so much relying on feathers for steering, but more for stability. Thats my two cents anyways.

RE: Bare Shaft Tuning...Bull$hit or Not?
 

I feel it does have some merit. I use it as a starting point to determine the correct spine through paper and adjust poundage and or tip weight. Then paper tune with a fletched arrow, then group tune.I find for me it speeds the process of the following tuning process. As with all methods of tuning i wouldnt just rely on one and settle with it. I feel it just another tool towards supertuning.IMHO

RE: Bare Shaft Tuning...Bull$hit or Not?
 

I've done it for release shooting and I don't see any reason it can't work at least as well as paper tuning. Only problem is, most people don't do bareshaft tuning correctly. Just stripping the fletches off and shooting the thing is WrOnG!

Stripping off the fletches not only removes the steerage, it also changes your FOC. If you're shooting vanes on your fletched arrows, it changes FOC BIG TIME! To keep the FOC consistant with your fletched arrows, you gotta wrap some duct tape around the nock end of the shaft. How much depends on how much weight you gotta make up.

RE: Bare Shaft Tuning...Bull$hit or Not?
 

I also use it for fine tuning my bows. Or should I say micro-tuning. While many guys paper tune I consider it a waste of time. Don't get me wrong. Any tuning is better than none, but paper is just getting the rough edges out of the arrow flight. I can do that with my eyeballs with the initial mounting of rest and such. But when I start playing with the bare shaft a lot of inconsistencies can show up. It's just plain fun to "outsmart" this thing. When I get a bare shaft flying into a 3" bullseye at 35 yards, and all I see going is a nock, then I have things pretty well in hand. I can expect target points and broadheads to shoot to the same point. And it usually works that way. Makes for a very forgiving setup and sure shows me if my form is off on that particular day.

RE: Bare Shaft Tuning...Bull$hit or Not?
 

IMO i think it may have very little merit. It may help in the tuning process, but when you add fletching you may have to retune, or move the rest or nock point and that may possibly mess up the bare shaft tuning. It just seems like a waste of time. This is just my opinion, so be easy on me because I think alot of people will disagree

RE: Bare Shaft Tuning...Bull$hit or Not?
 

it has merit for some to others it is BS;)

RE: Bare Shaft Tuning...Bull$hit or Not?
 

Don't do it with aluminum shafts and shoot into a solid target,,, you'll have bent arrows if they aren't flying perfect to begin with[:@]

RE: Bare Shaft Tuning...Bull$hit or Not?
 

I disagree - most bare shaft tuning is done at 20 yds. FOC IMO will have little impact on flight and point of impact.

I do it - I like it. it will get you real close for the most part. If your form is not good or are struggling with consistancy it may be a futile project. But when done correctly it will get you close.

Of course the final tune IMO should be with fletched broadhead tiped arrows - then just tweak to get it dead on.

bare shaft IMO gives you a much better reading than fletched through paper (wich is IMO a very general description of tune)

RE: Bare Shaft Tuning...Bull$hit or Not?
 

I believe it has merit. As for paper tuning...........I rarely get bullet holes. I admit to not having good as form as I would like, therefore I tune to my form if that makes any sense, because it provides more consistentcy for me. Not that I don't try to improve my form, but I want my bow to shoot the best for me.

I agree.

By the way, my final tuning process is tiller tuning, and that always seems to shrink my groups to the best of my ability.

RE: Bare Shaft Tuning...Bull$hit or Not?
 

I agree with A.P. you have to make up for the fletching weight. Its an easy step that is often over looked. changes weight, FOC, and SPINE. Grant that it does mean very little, but it still means something.

RE: Bare Shaft Tuning...Bull$hit or Not?
 

I shot my best score in a 3-D shoot last month and it would’ve turned out a whole lot different had it not been for bare shaft tuning. It was raining so hard; keeping my feathers dry was impossible! They were all matted down completely and I thought I was in for it. Not so, they still flew beautiful. Of course they did, cuz I had just bare shaft tuned them duh![8D]

I remember telling the guys had it not been for that I would’ve been loosing arrows they were that bad before tuning.


My little spin on paper tuning for a bullet hole:

Most people say you don’t need a perfect bullet hole. What about shooting threw small windows at deer? Do you want your high right tear waking a branch. Just a thought I was pondering.

RE: Bare Shaft Tuning...Bull$hit or Not?
 

Good Discussion..keep it up...:)

and Thanx for the edit Coug... :D

RE: Bare Shaft Tuning...Bull$hit or Not?
 

If I was going to do only one, paper or bare shaft, it would be bare shaft tuning. However, I don't bare shaft tune to micro adjust my rest. I usually only do it when testing for spine. Lately, I've been shooting over spined arrows, so I haven't needed to bare shaft tune. I group tune at a couple distances to set my nock point and rest.

RE: Bare Shaft Tuning...Bull$hit or Not?
 

Jeff,

I have done it on occasion but only when I could not get a good tune out of the bow with other tuning methods. I do not believe that is necessary to do it in order to get good, consistant arrow flight but it does come in handy at times to rule out certain potential issues.

RE: Bare Shaft Tuning...Bull$hit or Not?
 

I usually tune this way, at least to start. With some bows, it has seemed to work very well, and has produced good-shooting arrows that needed no additional tuning to shoot broadheads well. I have also had bows that bare-shaft tuned well enough at 15-20, but could not get to group as well as others I have had, even though they seemed to be well tuned. I suppose I should just take one of my better shooting bows down to Len, and let him set it up correctly. I have no doubt that it would be worth it, but it is hard to find the time to go.:(

RE: Bare Shaft Tuning...Bull$hit or Not?
 

I agree with Rack-attack 100%...

RE: Bare Shaft Tuning...Bull$hit or Not?
 

So would a bareshaft with a 145 grain field tip impact the same as a 100 grain? Everthing else held constant. What changed besides FOC? Same would go for taking wieght off the back of the arrow IMO.

RE: Bare Shaft Tuning...Bull$hit or Not?
 

Does it have merit, I would have to say yes. Is it an absolute necessity, no.

The same could be said of paper tuning.

I think there comes a point where a guy starts splitting hairs. Certainly we all want to achieve optimum performance and we all have our "pet" way of doing that. Is one way better than the other? I guess it depends on your experience or what you believe.

No matter how well tuned your equipment is, when you shoot in a stiff cross wind you are going to get a "kick" or fishtail even if it is slight.

RE: Bare Shaft Tuning...Bull$hit or Not?
 

Don't know how you can keep it constant with a 45 grn increase at the tip??? But if it were I would say they would hit very close. We are talking 20 yds here. I can shoot a arrow 100 grns heavier and it will hit very close.


- Spine and weight.

weight on or off the back effects spine MUCH less than weight at the front. I have shot bare shafts both ways - no diff for me. Foc means nothing at 20 yds IMO.

RE: Bare Shaft Tuning...Bull$hit or Not?
 

Rack, you do it your way, I'll do it the CORRECT way. :D

After getting them properly balanced, I can get bareshafts to hit with fletched arrows out to 50 yards. 20 is just for roughing in.

RE: Bare Shaft Tuning...Bull$hit or Not?
 

Recently while attempting to get my Muzzies to fly accurately, I went thru a very lengthy tuning process. I paper tuned my bow, and it was shooting very good holes at 10 feet, as well as 10 yards. So off to the back yard I go, with my broadhead appropriatey tuned on the arrow( no wobble at all). Unfortunately, they didn't fly so well. So, after research, I bare shaft tuned the bow, and didn't have to change much, but the little I did change made the difference. They now fly very straight, and I must say, it is fun to watch!

RE: Bare Shaft Tuning...Bull$hit or Not?
 

In my experience bare shaft tuning has mert but only as part of the process. My logic is if I can get an arrow to fly correctly without feathers or fletching then I'm half way there. I'm looking for spine and knocking point at this stage. I rarely ever paper tune any more unless I'm not getting the consistant arrow flight I'm looking for and then start the process over again with paper. Horizontal and vertical tuning and group tuning are my final stages of the process. When changing to B/H tuning I sometimes have to make micro adjustments but not always. Depending upon the B/H's. Like everything in this sport it's been a learning curve for me and a lot of the info has come from this site. Thanks. Jerry

RE: Bare Shaft Tuning...Bull$hit or Not?
 

Now to really throw a thought out. How often do you change your string's and do you go through this every time? How long does it take to tune bare shaft and then tune for bullet holes?
I was given a Jennings Uniforce recently. Having never shot a bow I HAD A BLAST the first few shots(I am hooked). The arrows were not the ones I will end up with. My first 5 arrows at 15 yards were all within 3 inches of each other. Understanding that isn't great, it is still pretty good considering it was my first time shooting a bow. We were just double-checking draw lenght and everything else before we got down to business of tuning it. Unfortunately the string frayed so I will be waiting till it gets replaced.

RE: Bare Shaft Tuning...Bull$hit or Not?
 

How long does it take to bareshaft tune and then tune to bullet holes?? No time, because you don't do that. It'd be a duplication of effort. You do either/or and then move on to fine tuning.

RE: Bare Shaft Tuning...Bull$hit or Not?
 

When I started out 20 years ago,shooting fingers,I allways bareshafted.Now are you guys talking about the "bareshat planing method" where you compare the groups of fletched and unfletched shafts.Or are you just looking at the Kick or relationship of the arrow to the target?

I think the planning method is best for telling you if your arrows are the proper spine for the weight,length of arrow, tip weight etc.When you do the planning method what adjustments are you making?

CB

RE: Bare Shaft Tuning...Bull$hit or Not?
 

CB, I'm looking at both. The position of the BS to the fletched arrows for spine and nocking point and the kick if any for rest position. I make one adjustment at a time starting with spine adjustments both the arrow and poundage. When I'm satisfied with that I move to nocking point. If the BS is hitting the target tail left or right I make some micro adjustmants to the rest. All these adjustments are at 20 yds. I'm half way there. The rest of my tuning will be with fletched arrows at longer distances for rest position and group tuning. I don't put a time factor on it. It takes as long as it takes. Some bows take long then others to find the right combo. I'd say on an average it takes me three, two hr sessions. The worst mistake to make is over shooting and making adjustments when your tired. I can be a little obcessive about the whole process. I can say for a new bow it may take me a month of shooting and micro tuning to find the most comfortable and forgiving set-up. It's worth it in the long run. Your shooting sessions will be fun and a good feeling of acomplishment in the end. Jerry

RE: Bare Shaft Tuning...Bull$hit or Not?
 

Jeff,

If you're not going to hunt with a bare shaft or enter a bare shaft tournament, why the hell do you want to waste your time tuning with a bare shaft ? ;)
That's all it is, imo, just a big waste of time.
Like everyone knows, when you add fletching, it changes your spine rating anyway and you're back to square one, so why bother ?
Life is too short to waste it on BS bare shaft tuning. LOL
JMHO. ;)


Sag.

RE: Bare Shaft Tuning...Bull$hit or Not?
 

Bare shaft tuning worked great for me. I thought my bow was tuned untill I took the fletching off. The arrow kick like crazy. The fletching makes a bad arrow fly good but you loose alot of energy in the process. After I got good flight with the bare shaft my groups really improved. I like this better than paper tuning. Just try it for yourself its not a waste of time.

RE: Bare Shaft Tuning...Bull$hit or Not?
 

You must be one of those Eastern Ky Hillbillies with nothing better to do with your time. LOL


Sag.

RE: Bare Shaft Tuning...Bull$hit or Not?
 

Sagittarius.... If you think bareshafting is a waste of time, you've obviously never done it CORRECTLY. :eek:

RE: Bare Shaft Tuning...Bull$hit or Not?
 

Good God man... It took me YEARS to get that image of Ned Beatty out of my head...

Thanks a lot. [:'(]

:)

RE: Bare Shaft Tuning...Bull$hit or Not?
 

Quothe he, with the raucous refrain of banjos in the background.

RE: Bare Shaft Tuning...Bull$hit or Not?
 

Arthur,

Believe it or not, I've never even tried to bare shaft tune and never once paper tuned either.
My bows are so accurate, they don't need it. :D LOL
I save paper tuning for my handguns and rifles. ;)


Sag.

RE: Bare Shaft Tuning...Bull$hit or Not?
 

Sag I can believe you have never tried it. There's always someone that knows more than everyone else even when they don't have a clue whats going on. I would guess you also shoot the best bow made , drive the best truck made, and are pretty much the smartest guy you know. :eek:
Also I'm from Western Ky. and I like the term redneck better if you don't mind.

RE: Bare Shaft Tuning...Bull$hit or Not?
 

Bareshaft tuning is a waste of time for best tuning IMHO. Why? Because of this---

Arrows with no fletching fly differently than those with fletching. Just as they should...simple as that. Helical, straight, and no fletching all create differing paradox and spine effects and thus differing impact points, and they also tear differently through paper at teh same distance if tuned correctly. If one tunes to get them all together, all one is doing is getting a "happy medium"--and NOT the most optimum tune for any of the individual configurations. If you shoot field points and broadheads together and get them to fly to the same impact spot, same thing---happy medium, NOT the optimum tuning for each individual configuration. For practical hunting applications, a "happy medium" may be fine for most who shoot only at 20 yds or so from a stand, but I personally would never recommend this type of tuning for long range shooting or hunting of animals such as antelope where shots over 40yds can be common. Performance and KE also suffers on bows tuned less than optimal... For the best tuning of YOUR setup to YOUR style and capabilites, IMHO nothing beats group tuning at distance, and with the arrow and head that you plan to use for that individual application. When changing fletches, arrows, or heads, don't be lazy, re tune! The bow is much more forgiving of errors when correctly setup for each individual application, and altho bareshafting can tell you alot about a paper tear and how the arrow is coming out of the bow, that in itself has little to do IMHO with correct tuning procedures for an individual application with the arrow that will be used for that application.

Sort of like trying to shoot a muzzleloader with the same accuracy as a .270 Weatherby at say 200yds---yeah, the "happy medium" muzzleloader may hit the intended target, but the .270 will blow 1" groups at 200yds consistently. Both will do the job at closer distances, but the .270 will do it with much more ease and precision, and so will a bow that is properly and correctly tuned to each arrow and head configuration for each individual application.;)
JMHO. Pinwheel 12

RE: Bare Shaft Tuning...Bull$hit or Not?
 

Pinwheel, I can agree with some of what you say however not everything.

Fletching has one reason for being on the end of your arrow. To put drag on you arrow to help it fly staight. The staighter I can get it to fly without fletching the better IMHO. I want my fletching to work the least amount it has to. I don't think tuning stops there however. I think its very important to tune your broadheads also.
I think it's also a good idea to shoot through a chronograph to see the differance in speed before and after tuning. It's just another tool to use and not the only thing you should do. IMHO

RE: Bare Shaft Tuning...Bull$hit or Not?
 

KyBH,

Last time I checked, I'm not a multi millionaire so I'm certainly not smart.
Not near as smart as Ol' Pinwheel even. ;)
Sorry, couldn't help myself when I called you an Eastern Ky hillbilly.
Just razzing you a bit and in one of my moods. :D
You took it pretty well though, to your credit.
Had a feeling you were actually from Western Ky.
Eastern Ky. hillbillies don't think of an arrow as a bare shaft. LOL
None of the professional archers that I have met or talked with bare shaft tune.
Traditional shooters like Arthur seem to see more value in bare shaft tuning compared to compound shooters in my experience.
I go along with what Pinwheel said about tuning your arrows to your bow.
Always the way I've done it and will continue to.
Pinwheel is a former world champion and that gives him all the credit he needs to make this call, imo.
As far as me owning the best bows...
Yep, no doubt, I sure do. ;)
I drive Toyota trucks and ride Honda motorcycles, in case you're wondering.
Would love to own a Honda Valkyrie Rune! ;)


Sag.

RE: Bare Shaft Tuning...Bull$hit or Not?
 

Sag, I'm for sure not a pro thats for sure. Just try to pull the odds in my favor so I do what I can. I've been bow hunting for 22 years now and learn something new every year. Should have known better than to change the mind of one of those thick skulled Kentucky boys. I bet you even like the Cardinals rather than the Wildcats.

P.S. Chevy trucks all the way.

RE: Bare Shaft Tuning...Bull$hit or Not?
 

KyBH,

Of course, I'm for the Cardinals.
They're from Louisville just like me. ;)
Sure glad we got your former coach too.
We love Rick Pitino as much as you guys used to.
We know you guys wish Rick was still your coach but we're not giving him back. ;)
I admit, I do pull for the Wildcats when they play anyone else. ;)


Sag.